[PUG] The Drug Culture

[Entyqua]

Again, what don't you understand about the fact that this has been proven to reduce drug addiction rates?

Of course there will be those who abuse the system, or who will "fall off the wagon" so to speak, but the simple question is would you rather things remained as they are where addicts have virtually no support? Or would you rather that they can go somewhere to take their drug in a clean & safe environment, where the drug itself is not cut with God knows what and is therefore much safer, and where at the same time as part of the program they receive rehabilitation support?

You'll have to forgive me as I am quite jaded...I do thing regulation is better than our current system. It doesn't take much...that one last hit...even on a perscription, could literally be your last. But that again is something I can't change, but the idealist in me, and the emotional mess left over from a loss wants no more people ripped up. For surely the living left behind are victims just as well as the dead...
Posted via Mobile Device

 

[Entyqua]

I have been directly affected by the "drug culture", and it was implied in my post.

Just because you aren't swaying anyone in their opinion doesn't mean we are ignoring you.

Yeah no...that wasn't it. Again the question is about the system as it is about a three time felony drug dealer obviously he won't change so why did the prison system release him??
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[DefectiveCreative]

We need to change ourselves. One person at a time.
The solution to this, and everything else is:
Consciousness.
To see what is beneficial and what is not.
If our parents and peers are a dysfunctional, rampaging mob,
we are likely to become that way too.
Curing the drug problem is as simple, and boring, and long-term as:
removing any interest in excaping a reality we can not stand being in.

If our own reality was satisfying and engaging, chances are we would not gravitate to drugs in the first place.
The world is not like that.
Nor will it be anytime soon.
But with committment and conviction, each of us - making up the entirety - can make a difference by becoming what we would like to see in the world.

Agreed, legalisation and the rest of the stuff I've discussed will improve things but like I mentioned in one of my posts the reason people turn to drugs is as an escape. If we all make the effort on a personal level to change ourselves for the better that need for escape will gradually evaporate

Of course, then you're landed with the problem of getting people to see the benefit in changing themselves for the better. I guess living by example is the best we can hope for in that regard. =/

Cheap shot Ben. But it seems most of you have missed the point of the thread.

I am not seeking a circular argument. The system as it is was my original thought a question most of you refuse to acknowlege too I might add.
Posted via Mobile Device

Like I said in my first post, your lack of clarity in your original post was the real problem here. Does it make sense that so many of the rest of us would misunderstand this thread because we're being intentionally obtuse and contradictory? Or does it make more sense that we misunderstood because you weren't clear enough?

You'll have to forgive me as I am quite jaded...I do thing regulation is better than our current system. It doesn't take much...that one last hit...even on a perscription, could literally be your last. But that again is something I can't change, but the idealist in me, and the emotional mess left over from a loss wants no more people ripped up. For surely the living left behind are victims just as well as the dead...

Addiction is hell, for everyone involved. Perhaps it would be best to heal those wounds as best you can before getting so involved with this issue, if things are so fresh for you?

 

[Entyqua]

Agreed, legalisation and the rest of the stuff I've discussed will improve things but like I mentioned in one of my posts the reason people turn to drugs is as an escape. If we all make the effort on a personal level to change ourselves for the better that need for escape will gradually evaporate

Of course, then you're landed with the problem of getting people to see the benefit in changing themselves for the better. I guess living by example is the best we can hope for in that regard. =/



Like I said in my first post, your lack of clarity in your original post was the real problem here. Does it make sense that so many of the rest of us would misunderstand this thread because we're being intentionally obtuse and contradictory? Or does it make more sense that we misunderstood because you weren't clear enough?

Addiction is hell, for everyone involved. Perhaps it would be best to heal those wounds as best you can before getting so involved with this issue, if things are so fresh for you?

these wounds are not fresh...they are well over 12 years old... but that does not mean I cannot still be jaded by them...

I know I was not clear...and as I said in the OP I wouldnt be...

but I posted a link to the story that started this...i dont know how much clearer I could have been...but oh well

 

[J. Cardigan]

Yeah no...that wasn't it. Again the question is about the system as it is about a three time felony drug dealer obviously he won't change so why did the prison system release him??
Posted via Mobile Device

It probably has something to do with overcrowding, seeing as the majority of inmates are non-violent offenders.

Your question was unclear, even in that post. Maybe you should find a computer instead of posting from whatever mobile device you're using. If that doesn't work, please consider taking an English class at a local college.

 

[Entyqua]

It probably has something to do with overcrowding, seeing as the majority of inmates are non-violent offenders.

Your question was unclear, even in that post. Maybe you should find a computer instead of posting from whatever mobile device you're using. If that doesn't work, please consider taking an English class at a local college.

yea, when all else fails resort to putting others down cuz that always works.

 

[J. Cardigan]

I said "please."

 

[Entyqua]

I said "please."

you can sugar candy coat it all you want but an insult is an insult...

 

[Celsius100]

It's an interesting situation for sure. There are a lot of different things that can be considered and for a number of different reasons. With that, I'll simply give my take as a guy who lives drug-free though also as a rare drinker.

I'll start by saying that I agree with the concept of legalizing, but putting restrictions on a large number of drugs that are currently illegal. As was mentioned previously, if the danger in buying and selling them was heavily reduced, the violence that follows would as well. If you can go to a store and buy something and go home with it with no worry of imprisonment for owning it, it's naturally a bit less likely that you would be on edge about having it on your person than if you were trying to look overly casual for the sake of not getting pulled over and arrested. On top of that, the availability would hurt the market for dealers in the first place, which only adds to that fact.

Rather, I'd think that a similar set of rules to DUIs would be sufficient as well as a similar law for public usage, though personally on that end, I'd like to see the punishment be a bit more severe, and rehabilitative programs for repeat offenders perhaps. If nothing else, it would by my theory help to remove outside danger to bystanders outside of the users own home.

Aside from points along the lines of arrest, it also removes the taboo factor a good bit. I don't see this as having a strong a reductive effect on lessening use, but I would wager my guess that even if minimal it would change things around for some future potential users.

If the funding put into housing users could then be put into rehabilitation for addictive substances, I think that would also help better the situation, and help change those who are endangering themselves and others around for the better.

After being a passenger in a 100+ mph collision with a morphine addict, and learning about the life she had lived, and what had led up to her crossing the median that day, I'd be a fool to think that legalization would fix everything though. There are still a lot of issues that I'm not exactly sure on how I would approach them personally.

These things aside, I also realize that changing things around is not exactly an easy task, especially on an issue as heavily under controversy as this. I also expect most to see from different angles than I will anyway. People have wills and views of their own after all, and it's not something I could do to force that away from them. That said, I'd much rather simply encourage through example, but then I'm idealistic enough that I'm not honestly sure how much that would help.

Thoughts on this would be cool, I suppose.

 

[J. Cardigan]

you can sugar candy coat it all you want but an insult is an insult...

I sat there for five minutes trying to word it as nicely as possible (seriously), but I can't help it if you get offended at something I say.

Anyway, I've stated my opinion and I'm done with this thread. Toodles!

 

[Questingpoet]

Here we go again...
People who don't know always think they have to do...
The world need changing! ...etc...

No.
We need to change ourselves. One person at a time.
The solution to this, and everything else is:
Consciousness.
To see what is beneficial and what is not.
If our parents and peers are a dysfunctional, rampaging mob,
we are likely to become that way too.
Curing the drug problem is as simple, and boring, and long-term as:
removing any interest in excaping a reality we can not stand being in.

If our own reality was satisfying and engaging, chances are we would not gravitate to drugs in the first place.
The world is not like that.
Nor will it be anytime soon.
But with committment and conviction, each of us - making up the entirety - can make a difference by becoming what we would like to see in the world.

Haha. And I call other people dreamers

I like this philosophy. I would extend it one layer further, and include my children. That is about the scope of what I can realistically change or strongly influence. But I still like to dream too.

 

[DefectiveCreative]

these wounds are not fresh...they are well over 12 years old... but that does not mean I cannot still be jaded by them...

I know I was not clear...and as I said in the OP I wouldnt be...

but I posted a link to the story that started this...i dont know how much clearer I could have been...but oh well

Permit me to clarify.

The body of your original post covered the topic you wished to discuss (about the guy being released early after multiple arrests/convictions), but the thread title was about something different (the rather nebulous and in my opinion questionable term "Drug Culture"), on top of that the poll you added was about a different subject again (whether anyone had been affected by this "Drug culture").

Do you see how that turned out to be so confusing for a lot of us?


(P.S. If you already knew you weren't going to be clear, why are you so surprised that you weren't?).

you can sugar candy coat it all you want but an insult is an insult...

As a neutral observer it doesn't seem to me that J. Cardigan intended any insult, it's clear that either English isn't your first language or that for some other reason your grasp of it is less than perfect. Like he said, if you wish to avoid such confuson happening in the future increasing your language skills may help in this regard.

 

[bamf]

It's an interesting situation for sure. There are a lot of different things that can be considered and for a number of different reasons. With that, I'll simply give my take as a guy who lives drug-free though also as a rare drinker.

I'll start by saying that I agree with the concept of legalizing, but putting restrictions on a large number of drugs that are currently illegal. As was mentioned previously, if the danger in buying and selling them was heavily reduced, the violence that follows would as well. If you can go to a store and buy something and go home with it with no worry of imprisonment for owning it, it's naturally a bit less likely that you would be on edge about having it on your person than if you were trying to look overly casual for the sake of not getting pulled over and arrested. On top of that, the availability would hurt the market for dealers in the first place, which only adds to that fact.

Rather, I'd think that a similar set of rules to DUIs would be sufficient as well as a similar law for public usage, though personally on that end, I'd like to see the punishment be a bit more severe, and rehabilitative programs for repeat offenders perhaps. If nothing else, it would by my theory help to remove outside danger to bystanders outside of the users own home.

Aside from points along the lines of arrest, it also removes the taboo factor a good bit. I don't see this as having a strong a reductive effect on lessening use, but I would wager my guess that even if minimal it would change things around for some future potential users.

If the funding put into housing users could then be put into rehabilitation for addictive substances, I think that would also help better the situation, and help change those who are endangering themselves and others around for the better.

After being a passenger in a 100+ mph collision with a morphine addict, and learning about the life she had lived, and what had led up to her crossing the median that day, I'd be a fool to think that legalization would fix everything though. There are still a lot of issues that I'm not exactly sure on how I would approach them personally.

These things aside, I also realize that changing things around is not exactly an easy task, especially on an issue as heavily under controversy as this. I also expect most to see from different angles than I will anyway. People have wills and views of their own after all, and it's not something I could do to force that away from them. That said, I'd much rather simply encourage through example, but then I'm idealistic enough that I'm not honestly sure how much that would help.

Thoughts on this would be cool, I suppose.

All interesting. I guess one thing I'd disagree with is forced rehabilitation for repeat offenders. The problem with addiction and treatment is that if you don't want it, it's not going to help you. We could force addicts into clean homes under 100% lockdown and security, but until they realize for themselves that they no longer want the life of an addict, they'll leave the house at the end of the mandatory time, and go right back into their old lifestyle.

 

[Slayerwolf]

This is a subject that I dwell on often, most people do not see it like I do and follow the propaganda that mainstream media spews. America has 5% of the world's population and 25% of the world's incarcerated. Why are they incarcerated ? The majority reason is drug possession then drug related crimes.

The Govt. says the answer is harsher sentences...uhhh..WRONG, the prison's that are over filling to the brim and even more prisons being filled faster than they can be built. The masses do not realize that drugs being legalized would bring with it an END to much violent crime. Illegal drugs create sky rocketed prices and bring in organized crime cartels and street gangs to deal it, every action has an equal and opposite reaction.

The gangs fight rival gangs over turf , users kill and rob people for money to buy more drugs. People devastated by losing someone by drug related crimes wrongly think " more prison time for the drug criminals", they are very misguided and conditioned to believe that's the answer.

Drugs at one time were LEGAL, and there was no crime related to it. Ever heard of the organization LEAP? Law Enforcement Against Prohibition , which is filled with many ex-narcotic cops, judges, prosecutors. They know. You cannot keep fighting the same problem with the same failed solution expecting a winning outcome, it's insane.

The Harrison Narcotics Act went into effect in 1914, then Cannabis was outlawed in 1937, in 1970 ....Nixon created the D.E.A. and that's when the so-called War On Drugs really got going. Most people and even I at one time believed the lies of the establishment concerning drugs. It is clearly a moral issue of what one person thinks of another persons personal behavior. Mankind used whatever chemical/compound they wanted for many hundreds and thousands of years before this bullshit "War On Drugs" started and you never had crime from it because prohibition brings with it..CRIME.

Drug Cartels DO NOT want to see drugs legalized because they know that prices will plummet, and availability will increase putting them out of business. I know that some people will not get this because of being conditioned too strongly by the media. Many won't even listen to others who want drug legalization ...I've heard it many times "oh you just want to get high" there again...they're morally judging another persons actions.

Check out this video, by the famous economist Milton Friedman, he hits hard on so many points, and especially the last sentence he says at the very end of the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLsCC0LZxkY

 

[Crow]

Good points.
This is a very emotionally-charged issue.
Obviously, our current laws do not work well.
As to what would...
The discussion continues.

 

[Outside]

All of this is why I could never be a politician.

It is also hard to restrict others from an easily obtainable unknown. That unknown is also very very personal. I learned the affects of drugs in elementary school. That didn't stop my curiosity. There is another thread on this forum asking individually how your personality changes on different substances.

I think everyone has been affected by drugs some way. At least in our different attitudes towards them. I mean, I have paid taxes before, and will for the rest of my life as I see it.

 

[arbygil]

As odd as it is, I really do agree with both sides of the issue. I agree that the legalization of some drugs (regulated) would probably curtail much of the violence in the streets. It wouldn't stop people from making their own home grown stuff, but maybe that would be a good thing; people could grow their own MJ plants at home and not get arrested for it. Twenty years ago I was a hardcore anti-druggist. Now? Not so much.

However.

Even the legalization of drugs - even the weaker ones - will not solve the problem of addictions or DUIs. Alcohol is legal, but we still have severe problems with abuse (DUIs being one of the chief issues). I think that might help if we raised the driving age to 18 and lowered the drinking age to 18, but that's another story.

But if we legalized some drugs, I would want to see that money go towards safer usage of drugs and rehabilitation programs. I would want to see that money going toward rehabilitation in the prison systems. I'd rather people make the choice for themselves to leave drugs alone because they have the choice, rather than seeing drugs as something forbidden to try. Part of its appeal is the forbidden nature of it, I suspect.

I think you have to take all things into account. Will it destroy society if drugs were legalized? Would it create more addicts of various substances who end up on skid row? Would we start to ignore the problems of addicts? Have we looked at Amsterdam, and seen behind the scenes (how they deal with their addicted population)? Would we suddenly have to create new laws on how to consume your drugs in a public place? Would we have drug/prostitution houses? Would different states have the options of legalizing drugs?

And yet...more money could finally go to schools, rather than the war on drugs. Maybe the gang wars in our streets would finally ebb and disappear. Maybe people in poverty who are in the center of the drug war could finally dig free, and find new lives for themselves and their families.

I don't know.

I do know it's a complicated issue, though, and no one answer answers all of the potential questions.

 

[TheLastMohican]

In a free country, I have the right to put whatever drugs in my body I want.

Would you also say that, in a free country, you have the right to perform any and all normal activities while thus intoxicated, regardless of increased risks to other people?

 

[BenW]

Would you also say that, in a free country, you have the right to perform any and all normal activities while thus intoxicated, regardless of increased risks to other people?

Depends.

Depends on the contract you have with your employer(s).
And depends on who's property you are on/using at the time.

 

[TheLastMohican]

Depends.

Depends on the contract you have with your employer(s).
And depends on who's property you are on/using at the time.

I'm thinking of activities like drunk driving, with no responsibility to employers or property (besides your own body and car) to be considered.