One year after the affair by ISTP spouse

[vegaSagev]

So it's almost been a year. It was happening a year ago, but I didn't find out until September. When part of it was going on last year, I was out of state for a week for an annual work event. Last week, I traveled again with fear and worry. Things have been excellent before last week and I never had any concerns or fears until then.

I explained to ISTP spouse that this would be a hard week for me and asked for some reassurance with calls while I was gone. Here's how it went down and what has happened since:

The night before I left, she came home from work 4 hours late. She called earlier to say she would be an hour late, but apparently things were more complicated and she had to slate even later. I was uneasy and asked, "What the hell?" She seemed to take my anger well and seemed to understand how this triggered me. Next day when I told her I would miss her, she said, "I will try to miss you, too." I must not have heard that because it didn't hit me until later in the day.

So being at this work event wasn't as hard as I thought it would be. She did call a time or two and texted me once. On the last night of my stay, she called to say she was going to a work party with a friend in a bar. We don't drink (at all) so it was odd and made me worry. I was uncomfortable with her going but knew I could say that. She was home early and I'm sure "behaved herself."

The next day when I got home it seemed to be a cold welcome. She hugged me but didn't seem at all like she was interested in seeing me. I guess I wasn't exactly expecting balloons and a poster board sign when I stepped off the plane, but I sure hoped for "something" that communicated some interest in being with me, especially right after a hard week.

That night and the next morning she complained of being tired and didn't want to be close at all really, which isn't a big deal in and of itself, but I just snapped. I told her I needed someone who could love me and took my still-packed suitcase and left. I was only gone about 4 hours and came back but she was pissed and has been angry ever since. She says she feels like she doesn't know now all of a sudden if this is going to work out and she says she needs time to decide what she wants out of life. I don't know if she is punishing me for threatening to leave or what? I honestly felt like I didn't belong and that I was the guy at the party that everyone asks how I even got invited in the first place.

Before last week, we have made excellent progress, or so it seemed, but she seems to be remembering all of the bad times and ways I hurt her. I swear she almost distorts her own memories to suit her current mood. She has been distant and people say I should just back off and let her have some space. I guess I ruined some of the momentum but I feel like I have given 110% and she has only given about 29%. Some things are better and I can tell she has intentionally tried at some thing, but now I am the one feeling lonely and out in the cold.

I don't want to leave her and will do everything I can to make it work. It just feels there is almost no reciprocation. I just need some little signs here and there, a wink, something that sends the message "I am still fighting through all of this, just like you, but I want to be together."

She says she had forgotten this all and that I forced it to be brought up again. I told her, trust me, if I could forget this I would." I don't have any interest in thinking of this but I am triggered by dates and events from last year....like my birthday coming up.

I wish she had a little bit of empathy. I wish she seemed a little more remorseful and could show me in very simple, small ways that things are better. I have tried my best.

Thoughts? How do I behave right now? What does her behavior communicate? How do I not blow this?

Thanks to everyone.

P.S. I don't know how to reference my original post with a link for anyone who wants to read the background, but if anyone can do that for me I would really appreciate it.

 

[Shai Gar]

Seems to me that she blew it, not you.

 

[Matariki]

You two need to sit down and talk about your relationship together. You need to find out what she needs and you need to tell her what you need.

Communication is an absolute must in a marriage, regardless of personality type.
Trust is also a key element in a successful relationship. By the sounds of things you both don't trust each other, sometimes that can be caused by a breakdown in communication.
Storming out of the house with a suit case is not going to fix the situation, doing that is only going to make the fire bigger. By the sounds of things she does love you, if she didn't she wouldn't of called you up on the phone when you stormed out.
I remember what you posted last year. By the sounds of things you haven't truly forgiven her for her mistakes and maybe she can sense that. Maybe she feels that she doesn't have any independence in the marriage?
Either way, you need to sit down and have a nice long chat with her and consider seeing a marriage counselor together.

 

[vegaSagev]

She didn't call me. She didn't say, "Stop" or "Don't leave" or anything. I almost think she disrespects the fact that I came back so quickly. I told her and I feel I did not do this to punish her, but I truly felt unwanted and I was seriously uncomfortable being in a place where I am not wanted. Maybe my inner narcissist.

Independece did come up. She says, "If I don't give you sex or hug you just right, you up and leave?!?" She seems very resistant to any suggestions I make and feel I tell her what to do. She has also started doing some weird things like talking about going to a rap concert, changing her hair (she was always a very simple gal). It seems like she is looking everywhere for some peace and meaning and like she is trying to "find" herself or something. I just don't know what to do.

 

[Razare]

I don't know all the details but it sounds to me you're trying too hard compared to how hard she's trying. It wont work.

I just got over a relationship where I tried hard and the other person stopped putting effort in. When the other person stops putting effort in, it's over, no amount of effort on your part will be enough. You'll just exhaust yourself and end up a wreck.

You're older than me, so maybe those years made you forget this. You are who you are, people have to take it or leave it. The minute you start giving more than your share into a relationship is the minute you'll be taken for granted by the other person, which in my case, caused her to cheat on me, as well. Looking back, I realized, that every time she pushed me to give up ground on something and I did, I had made a big mistake. Doing that causes you to lose respect in the other person's eye. Concessions are only good if both parties are giving up ground, or if the other person strongly acknowledges what the other is giving up and keeps that in mind for future interactions. It sucks that's how it seems to be, but from my experience that's how it is.

Now is the time to stand your ground on your feelings and principles, even if that means the relationship is over. You are a worthwhile person, never let ANYONE treat you like shit.

===============

Edit: Small clause on this, if you have kids, don't listen to my advice. My advice is if you're a person independent of other obligations in the relationship.

 

[Shai Gar]

Well, while she's finding herself, you could find someone else.

 

[Matariki]

Well, while she's finding herself, you could find someone else.

There is always that option. But, not one that I recommend.

After reading the second post by the OP and hearing that nothing has really improved I have come to the conclusion that the problems could be the following;

Lack of communication.
Lack of trust.
Immaturity on your misses behalf.
Your demanding.

Talk to each other, go see a marriage counselor and if all else fails, then you might need to consider separating for a while, while you work things out.

 

[Matariki]

She didn't call me. She didn't say, "Stop" or "Don't leave" or anything. I almost think she disrespects the fact that I came back so quickly. I told her and I feel I did not do this to punish her, but I truly felt unwanted and I was seriously uncomfortable being in a place where I am not wanted. Maybe my inner narcissist.

My mistake. I have a bad habit of misreading things from time to time.

 

[Billy]

Dude you sound like a stage 5 clinger.

 

[Gaze]

I don't know all the details but it sounds to me you're trying too hard compared to how hard she's trying. It wont work.

I just got over a relationship where I tried hard and the other person stopped putting effort in. When the other person stops putting effort in, it's over, no amount of effort on your part will be enough. You'll just exhaust yourself and end up a wreck.

You're older than me, so maybe those years made you forget this. You are who you are, people have to take it or leave it. The minute you start giving more than your share into a relationship is the minute you'll be taken for granted by the other person, which in my case, caused her to cheat on me, as well. Looking back, I realized, that every time she pushed me to give up ground on something and I did, I had made a big mistake. Doing that causes you to lose respect in the other person's eye. Concessions are only good if both parties are giving up ground, or if the other person strongly acknowledges what the other is giving up and keeps that in mind for future interactions. It sucks that's how it seems to be, but from my experience that's how it is.

Now is the time to stand your ground on your feelings and principles, even if that means the relationship is over. You are a worthwhile person, never let ANYONE treat you like shit.

===============

Edit: Small clause on this, if you have kids, don't listen to my advice. My advice is if you're a person independent of other obligations in the relationship.

Good advice

 

[testing]

Hi VegaSagev, I remember you from last year, and was actually thinking about your original post just a week or so ago... this whole situation sucks and I am so sad for you.

Hate to say it, but, I really think Shai is right on this one. It sounds like there are people IRL telling you you should back off and let her have her space -- frankly, I am more concerned about you and your space. I am no marriage counselor but it is upsetting to read about how she is treating you, it does not sound right at all.

 

[Norton]

Past a certain young age, most people don't change much except in the face of a major paradigm shift in their lives, which is, more often than not, brought on by trauma. Sometimes that doesn't even cause change, so, essentially, what you see is what you get. Is how she is now, in real life, what you're willing to settle for for the rest of your life? If so, get counseling because the only potential change that can happen is about you. But, do you really want to fight your nature and hope for things that won't happen?

Sorry if this is harsh. But, it is a big world out there and your chances at happiness are much greater if you find someone more compatible to love. Life is short. Be brave.

 

[the]

Here is the link to the background story: http://forums.infjs.com/showthread.php?t=5213

 

[sassafras]

I think you need to stop trying so hard. She's obviously not as invested in the relationship as you are. It seems like she doesn't respect you and your feelings, and at this point, I don't think that a plain, heart-to-heart conversation is going to work.

I'm going to be blunt and upfront here. Absence makes the heart grow fonder. As does unpredictability.

Right now, she's feeling all too assured where she stands with you. And chances are, your overly accommodating, emotional and needling behaviour is probably looking pretty irritating rather than sympathetic. Her familiarity with your habits and psyche is giving her a firm ground to stand on and is giving her room to explore her wants and needs at her leisure, keeping you around as a back-up plan rather than a first choice. She doesn't take you seriously. You have to change that if you want to save this relationship, and sadly, that is going to have to start with your behaviour.

If you call/text/communicate with her every day, stop. If you usually make an effort to tell her you still love her/express affection, stop. The best thing to do is suddenly get busy and don't tell her what you're doing. Go out with your friends. Start a workout regime. Try for a promotion at work. If you're not a snazzy dresser, start to put a little more effort into what you're wearing; dress nicely. Take phone-calls into the next room. Stop checking on her phone and email (you shouldn't be doing that in the first place). You need to shift your focus away from her and let her feel a little starved for your attention. This way, you'll show her that you're not going to wait around forever until she decides whether or not she wants to be with you or not. And I'm not saying to do this for "show." I'm saying, really, do this for you.

Because if she does drop you one day (I'm not saying this plan is guaranteed to get her back, but it probably gives you the best chances) you're going to need something to fall back onto and build your self-esteem. And this is what this is all about; putting yourself first and accomplishing something for yourself because you deserve some you-love much more than she does.

That's about as practical as my advice can get. Good luck.

 

[Kgal]

What I'm hearing from you is that she is not meeting your expectations.

2 things here:

One - you need to really examine those expectations. What do they tell you about yourself?
Two - in examining those unmet expectations - what does that tell you about her?

Focusing on what's going on in front of you now will tell you which direction to go next. I'm not suggesting you look for reasons to justify your suspicions or desires - but more along the lines of really seeing what's happening in any given moment.

I have been where you are standing now. Recovering trust is a long process. I'm sure you've worked on this and know that learning to trust your perceptions is paramount. Once you've achieved that within yourself, you can then begin to trust her.

In the end tho - you either trust someone or you don't. I choose to trust a person - sort of give them the benefit of the doubt. I do not associate with people who hurt others intentionally. So I know I don't have to worry about them hurting me on purpose. IF and when the people that I do associate with, betray me - then I'll deal with it. After all these years I've learned that what THEY do is not about me generally.

Let's face it. People change and grow in new directions - and that direction may or may not include me.

I wish you enough peace today to give your heart a break from pain and fear.

 

[Bird]

So it's almost been a year. It was happening a year ago, but I didn't find out until September. When part of it was going on last year, I was out of state for a week for an annual work event. Last week, I traveled again with fear and worry. Things have been excellent before last week and I never had any concerns or fears until then.

I explained to ISTP spouse that this would be a hard week for me and asked for some reassurance with calls while I was gone. Here's how it went down and what has happened since:

The night before I left, she came home from work 4 hours late. She called earlier to say she would be an hour late, but apparently things were more complicated and she had to slate even later. I was uneasy and asked, "What the hell?" She seemed to take my anger well and seemed to understand how this triggered me. Next day when I told her I would miss her, she said, "I will try to miss you, too." I must not have heard that because it didn't hit me until later in the day.

So being at this work event wasn't as hard as I thought it would be. She did call a time or two and texted me once. On the last night of my stay, she called to say she was going to a work party with a friend in a bar. We don't drink (at all) so it was odd and made me worry. I was uncomfortable with her going but knew I could say that. She was home early and I'm sure "behaved herself."

The next day when I got home it seemed to be a cold welcome. She hugged me but didn't seem at all like she was interested in seeing me. I guess I wasn't exactly expecting balloons and a poster board sign when I stepped off the plane, but I sure hoped for "something" that communicated some interest in being with me, especially right after a hard week.

That night and the next morning she complained of being tired and didn't want to be close at all really, which isn't a big deal in and of itself, but I just snapped. I told her I needed someone who could love me and took my still-packed suitcase and left. I was only gone about 4 hours and came back but she was pissed and has been angry ever since. She says she feels like she doesn't know now all of a sudden if this is going to work out and she says she needs time to decide what she wants out of life. I don't know if she is punishing me for threatening to leave or what? I honestly felt like I didn't belong and that I was the guy at the party that everyone asks how I even got invited in the first place.

Before last week, we have made excellent progress, or so it seemed, but she seems to be remembering all of the bad times and ways I hurt her. I swear she almost distorts her own memories to suit her current mood. She has been distant and people say I should just back off and let her have some space. I guess I ruined some of the momentum but I feel like I have given 110% and she has only given about 29%. Some things are better and I can tell she has intentionally tried at some thing, but now I am the one feeling lonely and out in the cold.

I don't want to leave her and will do everything I can to make it work. It just feels there is almost no reciprocation. I just need some little signs here and there, a wink, something that sends the message "I am still fighting through all of this, just like you, but I want to be together."

She says she had forgotten this all and that I forced it to be brought up again. I told her, trust me, if I could forget this I would." I don't have any interest in thinking of this but I am triggered by dates and events from last year....like my birthday coming up.

I wish she had a little bit of empathy. I wish she seemed a little more remorseful and could show me in very simple, small ways that things are better. I have tried my best.

Thoughts? How do I behave right now? What does her behavior communicate? How do I not blow this?

Thanks to everyone.

P.S. I don't know how to reference my original post with a link for anyone who wants to read the background, but if anyone can do that for me I would really appreciate it.

If you're giving one hundred and ten percent and she is giving a mere twenty-nine, then why are you with her?

 

[kita]

Infidelity is REALLY hard to get over, and I don't think it can happen if you are still punishing her or throwing it in her face during an argument. This sounds to me like a typical infj feeling insecure fight, blown way out of proportion because of the history. Everyone makes mistakes, and I think anyone would cheat if in the "right" circumstances. If you want things to be good again, really give yourselves a clean slate and never mention the cheating again.

 

[Ria]

I am in much the same situation with my ISTP bf as you and your ISTP gf. I can relate to what you say about how she behaves. Also about how the good times when the ISTP is emotionally and romantically available creates the hope that you need for things to work out for the future. My ISTP has had a history of emotional inconsistency and his Fi is very high and his Fe quite low; although it has greatly improved.

It takes a strong person to make it work with a previousely unfaithful ISTP. You will get mixed advice here with the main objective being along the lines of logic. However, as you are in an emotionally painful situation, I'll add some validation to your situation. It could go either way for you. But if your like me, then your love for your partner and the relationship is strong, and you will keep on stratagizing everything to make the relationship smooth, it might pay off. You need to understand though, when to stop focussing on her and on the "relationship" as a seperate entity, and get back to rediscovering yourself as its easy to do. In other words, in your case, hope for the best, but don't ruin yourself if it doesn't work out. Love is a funny thing.
My relationship is in a wonderful stage right now, but that is thanks to some outside professional help for both of us. Also, it took some time apart for him to truly decide what he wanted. Just thought I'd pop in my 2 cents and wish you good luck!

 

[athenian200]

I think you need to stop trying so hard. She's obviously not as invested in the relationship as you are. It seems like she doesn't respect you and your feelings, and at this point, I don't think that a plain, heart-to-heart conversation is going to work.

I'm going to be blunt and upfront here. Absence makes the heart grow fonder. As does unpredictability.

Right now, she's feeling all too assured where she stands with you. And chances are, your overly accommodating, emotional and needling behaviour is probably looking pretty irritating rather than sympathetic. Her familiarity with your habits and psyche is giving her a firm ground to stand on and is giving her room to explore her wants and needs at her leisure, keeping you around as a back-up plan rather than a first choice. She doesn't take you seriously. You have to change that if you want to save this relationship, and sadly, that is going to have to start with your behaviour.

If you call/text/communicate with her every day, stop. If you usually make an effort to tell her you still love her/express affection, stop. The best thing to do is suddenly get busy and don't tell her what you're doing. Go out with your friends. Start a workout regime. Try for a promotion at work. If you're not a snazzy dresser, start to put a little more effort into what you're wearing; dress nicely. Take phone-calls into the next room. Stop checking on her phone and email (you shouldn't be doing that in the first place). You need to shift your focus away from her and let her feel a little starved for your attention. This way, you'll show her that you're not going to wait around forever until she decides whether or not she wants to be with you or not. And I'm not saying to do this for "show." I'm saying, really, do this for you.

Because if she does drop you one day (I'm not saying this plan is guaranteed to get her back, but it probably gives you the best chances) you're going to need something to fall back onto and build your self-esteem. And this is what this is all about; putting yourself first and accomplishing something for yourself because you deserve some you-love much more than she does.

That's about as practical as my advice can get. Good luck.

I don't have anything to add to this. But I do want to say that out of all the advice here, this is what I think you should listen to. It's fairly close to what I would have suggested, and seems to be tempered by relevant experience.

 

[acd]

Sounds like it's over.
Sorry...

You could try to change it up, change yourself but do you think that will make you happy, or that it will have a long-term effect?