Not allowed to build minarets anymore | INFJ Forum

Not allowed to build minarets anymore

Discussion in 'News and Politics' started by Atara, Nov 30, 2009.

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  1. Atara

    Atara OneOneOne

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    So I don't know how much you're into foreign politics but since it shocked me so much I thought it might be of interest to you: I live in Switzerland and we just had this big vote on whether to allow new minarets (towers on top of mosques) to be built or not. (Swiss people get to vote directly on things like this.)
    I thought they were kidding when I first heard about it. How anyone could consider actually voting yes on this was beyond me, especially since we like to call ourselves a 'democratic' and progressive country. Progressive my ass:m072:! (Am I allowed to say 'ass' in here? If not I apologize)
    So they calculated the results yesterday and as it turns out 57 % voted against minarets. Is it just me, or does that shock you as much as it shocks me? I found an article in English, published in the LA Times, which gives you further information.

    http://www.latimes.com/news/nation-and-world/la-fg-swiss-minaret30-2009nov30,0,5417813.story

    I'm not as much shocked (for Swiss people tend to be very conservative if they are not observed by anyone) as I am devastated and frustrated and ashamed for having to call myself Swiss. (I honestly bawled my eyes out when I read about the results:m142:)
    I would be really interested in knowing what your opinion is. Would you be as stunned as me? Or is the public's view on that matter in the US or anywhere else in the world similar to the Swiss view (and yet so different from mine)?
    I'd love to hear what you have to say.
     
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  2. bs98r3kjf

    bs98r3kjf Well-known member

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    Minarets shouldn't be a big deal. They have an aesthetic purpose these days because the call to prayers is not really made from them in a lot of places these days. I don't see why they're not allowed to have them anymore. Aesthetics are nice. The story states that "minarets are a symbol of Islamic law and segregation." Really? I need to read up more on it because last time I checked, the only real purpose of minarets was to make the call to prayer. Sure many mosques built them even after the call to prayer was not made from them anymore, but that is because its simply good architecture and they please the eyes.
     
    #2 bs98r3kjf, Nov 30, 2009
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2009
  3. Barnabas

    Barnabas Time Lord

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    I don't understand the point of this law, makes no sense. insulting
     
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  4. bs98r3kjf

    bs98r3kjf Well-known member

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    It just does not make sense. I mean personally, if I were to build a mosque, I probably would not want a minaret on it because while I can appreciate beautiful art and architecture, I feel that less is more and would want my mosque to be very simple and humble. But some people probably find it very aesthetically pleasing and it is important to them. I do not see why something so pretty should be banned.
     
  5. enfp can be shy

    enfp can be shy people vs the bad people?
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    I can only imagine that this tradition disturbes the quietness. Normally from these minarets priests voice out prayers in different hours of the day; usually with megaphones.
    :m141:This can be a lot of fun at first, but quickly becomes very annoying, unless you firmly believe it's for the greater good of society. Not only it's loud; it's also in foreign language and with melodic intonation, which some people may find to sound pretty unpleasant for them.

    Another (less excusable) reason for Swiss people to dislike minarets is keeping the architectural tradition of the region. Switzerland is a tourist country with famous outlook, so preservation and maintenance is crucial for their economy, and more importantly - for their lifestyle. Even though I said this is less excusable reason, I personally think it would be a great loss for the world, if places like Switzerland become too open for modern buildings, or diverse cultural ones.

    I'm not saying I was going to vote against minarets, but I'm not completely shocked. I would prefer not banning minarets; instead limitations of their amounts per area, and the choices for their locations.
     
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  6. Puck

    Puck Perilous Pixie
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  7. bs98r3kjf

    bs98r3kjf Well-known member

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    enpf can be shy, you do make some good points now that I look at it.

    I don't think they use it to make the call to prayer. They just make those on a microphone inside the mosque, I don't think they use minarets for it anymore in most places. That's how it is here anyways.
     
  8. bs98r3kjf

    bs98r3kjf Well-known member

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    hmmmm, minarets and steeples look very similar, just an observation...
     
  9. TheLastMohican

    TheLastMohican Captain Obvious
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    Why do European countries keep trying to irritate Muslims? This is stupid, even more so than the attempted burka ban in France and the UK.

    These measures will be scorned in future decades as classic examples of popular paranoia.
     
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  10. Billy

    Billy Contents Under Pressure
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    Good for them. If they don't want it, don't allow it. Nothing wrong with the Swiss trying to preserve thier culture from the horde of Muslims flowing into Europe.
     
  11. Billy

    Billy Contents Under Pressure
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    Why is it stupid? If the muslims want those things they can do them back home in their muslim countries. There is a serious time bomb going on in Europe with the Muslim populations. I am guessing that when they get around to being 50% or so of the population they will start the massacres of non muslims, like they do everywhere else they go.
     
  12. bs98r3kjf

    bs98r3kjf Well-known member

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    I don't think they're trying to irritate them. I think they're just scared of what is different because they might not be educated enough about it, even though it does not pose any rational threat. Sometimes, there is a fear of what is different, and this irrational fear can lead to paranoia and decisions such as bans on things that are very harmless.

    I don't think this is as stupid as the burka ban though. The burka ban takes away women's rights but this ban just takes away an option that Muslims have. The Quran demands that women cover themselves but nowhere does it demand in the Quran or Hadith that mosques need minarets. I mean yeah they're nice and some find them important and pretty but it does not infringe on the rights of Muslims nearly as much as the burka ban does, in my opinion anyways. I don't think its even a God-given right to have a minaret, unlike covering yourself. But it is sort of annoying to see something like a minaret banned when it looks so much like a steeple. It's just good architecture and aesthetics, that's all it is.
     
    #12 bs98r3kjf, Nov 30, 2009
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2009
  13. Billy

    Billy Contents Under Pressure
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    the Burka takes away women's rights ha ha ha. Yeah women working in careers instead of the kitchen barefoot takes away women's rights too.
     
  14. bs98r3kjf

    bs98r3kjf Well-known member

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    What about the Muslims who are Europeans? Where do you expect them to go? It's funny. It's like after 9/11 when some people told me to "go back to your country." Like hello, this is my country, this is my home. I'm sure there are many many many European Muslims who didn't immigrate there. Why does being Muslim equate with being an immigrant in the mind of some people?
     
  15. bs98r3kjf

    bs98r3kjf Well-known member

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    The burka ban takes away women's rights. Who said anything about careers?
     
  16. Billy

    Billy Contents Under Pressure
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    Islam is not a European religion nor are Islamic cultural ties European cultural ties. If you want to practice being a Muslim do it in your home. Muslims do not have a right to make the rest of the world Muslim, oh wait yes they do it says it right in their holy writings. And anywhere they go and begin to grow in numbers things happen. when their populations start hitting 5-10% violence occurs a lot. The Swiss have every right to protect themselves.
     
  17. Billy

    Billy Contents Under Pressure
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    Its the same damned thing. The Burka is a signal of female repression. They can pretend its about keeping women modest all they want, but in islam the point of a burka is to control the women. Much like we used to control women by keeping them in the kitchen barefoot and pregnant. Pretending that a few nutty women who embrace a misogynist tradition somehow equates to banning of burkas as a mark against female rights is a joke.
     
  18. bs98r3kjf

    bs98r3kjf Well-known member

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    You're missing the fact that for many Muslims, Europe is a home. You're also wrong about Muslims having a "right to make the rest of the world Muslim." Have you read the Quran? Go read chapter 109 of the Quran. It's only six verses long so it won't take you that long to read it. I'm not necessarily against this minaret ban although I do find it stupid, I do not see it as a necessary violation of rights. But its interesting. It makes one think.
     
  19. enfp can be shy

    enfp can be shy people vs the bad people?
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    I would normally say the same, but there must also be some reason for the Swiss to even think about voting such law, right?

    Strangely, they don't vote out Indian wigwams, right? ... Maybe... possibly... it could be because there aren't many Indians running all around the place building wigwams??

    However, you rise another political issue here - could it be the new policy of the US (and even the UK) to scare the Muslims towards the EU, until some conflict arises? Politicians are very sick people. They need lots of hugging and kissing.
     
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    #19 enfp can be shy, Nov 30, 2009
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2009
  20. Billy

    Billy Contents Under Pressure
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    Oh that's right I forgot, they allow infidels to also exist (at their mercy) as long as they pay an infidel tax.

    The Muslims in Europe can do whatever they want, in the privacy of their homes. If they don't like not being able to push Islam on everyone else they can move to Iran, its plenty Muslim friendly there.
     
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