New theory: All Nihilists should kill themselves. | INFJ Forum

New theory: All Nihilists should kill themselves.

Discussion in 'Philosophy and Religion' started by slant, Aug 3, 2010.

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  1. slant

    slant Sedated slanty

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    I have spent a lot of times glossing over the theory of Nihilism. I have researched it and have known quite a few people personally who believe in Nihilism and as a result call them Nihilists.

    The last Nihilist that I knew complained to me about human beings polluting the earth; he told me that he thought that humans should die because we hurt the environment and do nothing particularly good for the world, all the while, he believed that life had no meaning anyway.

    My proposition to him was this: Then why don't you just kill yourself.

    If you are a nihilist, and you believe that there is no meaning to life, and on top of that, you believe that humans are destructive creatures that deserve to die....why don't you just kill yourself?

    I understand that not all nihilists believe that humans are destructive; but even so.

    If there is no meaning or innate purpose to life, then what is stopping you from killing yourself? If you really think about it, wouldn't a nihilist killing themselves had better results for the planet and the environment than if they didn't kill themselves? And I suppose if you know, they think nothing has a meaning, then killing yourself for the planet isn't really going to matter anyway, since nothing has a meaning....

    So.

    In conclusion...

    I believe all Nihilists should kill themselves. My argument? Why not? What reason can you come up with against it? Life is meaningless. There is no purpose behind anything. So you don't really need a justification to do so; you should just do it, see what happens. Oh that's right---nothing will happen, because everything is meaningless and has no purpose.

    But, you could still try it nihilists.


    How many of you agree with this theory of mine? Or...disagree. That will be interesting. Let's see some strong, firm, disagrees that nihilist shouldn't kill themselves, and under what justification.
     
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  2. Razare

    Razare Community Member

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    I argue that nihilists shouldn't kill themselves because people change their points of view as they age. Not everyone does, but many do.

    A nihilist today, may not be a nihilist 20 years from now. 20 years from now, their life may have a meaning that they accept.

    A person cannot be defined in a moment, it takes a lifetime.
     
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  3. OP
    slant

    slant Sedated slanty

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    So then...you're saying that....nihilists actually aren't nihilists because they'll probably change their mind later on in life...so they shouldn't kill themselves, just in case they decide they want to stop thinking that life is meaningless and has no point. Basically, in case they think their life might have meaning later on in life they shouldn't kill themselves.

    But, isn't that contradictory, being it is, that at the time stated their life is meaningless without purpose and it will continue to be so under the philosophy of nihilism? Wouldn't the people who justify not killing themselves who are nihilists by the reasoning that maybe later on in life they will not be nihilists set themselves up for a logical inconsistency, because by opening the door to other possibilities they automatically admit that their point of view couldn't be true in the first place?

    Any "true" nihilist who genuinely believed that there is no meaning to anything and nothing has purpose would conclude that holding out on suicide just because later on they might change their mind is actually not consistent with thinking that nothing has a purpose.
     
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  4. TinyBubbles

    TinyBubbles anarchist

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    well it's not so much a theory as it is a directive (and i wouldn't classify myself as a nihilist, but my thoughts have definitely ventured in that direction)

    anyway, since they're already alive, it would require additional effort to bring about their deaths, and if there's no purpose behind anything, there'd be no point to make such an effort. the path of least resistance, which seems to be what nihilism is advocating (if anything), would involve continuing to live, not attempting to die.
     
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  5. Shai Gar

    Shai Gar Guest

    Similar to the Christian belief that Atheists should just kill themselves.

    Nihilists believe that there's no inherent belief. We make our own.
     
  6. AUM

    AUM The Romantic Scientist

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    Just because life has no meaning, doesn't mean that you can't enjoy it. As a matter of fact, I think a nihilist would have a more enjoyable life than a person who holds the believes that there is a purpose simply because there is nothing stopping them from doing what they really want. A person who believes in a higher power is somewhat in fear that they will be punished by something divine, so they are less likely to pursue any kind of activity that would compromise their security after their death.

    Though I would agree with you on the fact that nihilist are sometimes quite depressive to begin with. I for one am a nihilist but I also integrate some concept that life itself is a lila, where reality itself is a game of a cosmic scale. I'm not going to go into detail about this, but simply, I don't hold the pessimistic viewpoint that life is pointless(though meaningless), therefore I should kill myself.
     
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    #6 AUM, Aug 3, 2010
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2010
  7. OP
    slant

    slant Sedated slanty

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    The reason not to kill yourself if you are a nihilist.

    "If there's no purpose behind anything, there'd be no point to make such an effort."

    But then...why would you even do anything? Wouldn't you just want to sit around and do nothing? Isn't that going with the path of least resistance? And eventually, if you did nothing, didn't eat...let's suppose you just decided to stop breathing, wouldn't that also be considered suicide? Maybe when you commit suicide you don't go out of your way to die...maybe you just, sit there, and decompose.
     
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  8. Daeledin

    Daeledin <font color=#575EC1>NVs Fanboi</font>

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    Why not kill yourself?

    Then why not live? The deterrence is that dieing is irreversible.

    Plus, you can hold a belief that the general experience of existence is meaningless and then still live a life. Maybe even enjoy it. Life doesn't require a goal or an end game. If you find there is no purpose to life in general, then you can create one for your own life. Either by making it your goal to be a boon to society or a greedy hoarder and anything in between.

    Or you can make your life goal to be not obsessing over thoughts regarding to the meaning of life. Thus making it meaningless (read 'absence' of meaning).

    Meanwhile you go on living to your own desires. Desires being anything in the world. Me personally, I'm an optimist so 'living to my desires' doesn't have the negative connotation I'm going to assume you think I mean.
     
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  9. OP
    slant

    slant Sedated slanty

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    So really, what we're getting at, is that basically nihilism encourages people to be indecisive and not make up their mind about anything. Because you pretty much can't have an opinion on whether you should kill yourself or not, because in the end, your opinion doesn't matter....nothing matter. None of it has meaning so it doesn't matter what you do, there's no purpose, no end goal. So if we're going by true nihilism, we're just going to be confused individuals who believe nothing means anything.

    You can't technically really justify the decision to kill yourself or not to kill yourself, because the logic on both sides are kind of...meaningless.
     
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  10. TinyBubbles

    TinyBubbles anarchist

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    yes, for a time it'd be easier to sit around and do nothing, but after a while your biological instincts will kick in, and the temptations to eat, sleep, etc. will scream for your attention. at that point, it'd be easier and require less energy to fulfill those needs (and thus, continue living), than it would be to continue ignoring them and eventually die. if at any point in your life this stops being true (eg. you go into a coma and no longer have such impulses), then yup, the path of least resistance would mean dying without effort. but most nihilists are not at this point yet.
     
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  11. bamf

    bamf Is Watching You
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    In true nihilist fashion...there is not enough merit for me to argue you, nor do I care.
     
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  12. OP
    slant

    slant Sedated slanty

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    So...then those who are depressed and have the chemical/biological/whatever urge to kill themselves, then, should kill themselves, because it is easier and requires less energy to fulfill those needs.

    I actually don't think this argument works because again you are actually giving meaning to life; the purpose behind life is to make life as easy as it can be.

    No.

    There is no purpose to life, so, really, there is no reason to make it easier nor harder. There's no reasoning.
     
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  13. Billy

    Billy Contents Under Pressure
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    Thats an existentialist.
     
  14. Satya

    Satya C'est la vie
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    Oh my God. The day has come that I have to agree with Billy.

    Indeed, Nihilists think meaning is absurd. Existentialists try to find their own meaning in life. The classic xkcd cartoon which illustrates the difference...

    nihilism.png
     
  15. TinyBubbles

    TinyBubbles anarchist

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    not exactly. nihilism asserts that there's no purpose to anything, and that because of that to have a conscious will to do or achieve anything would be unjustified. this doesn't mean that you couldn't take action anyway, and that it wouldn't still be pointless, but if you did you'd be expressing a desire, and having a desire goes against the idea that everything is pointless - it presupposes that you care about the outcome, which you couldn't if you were a true nihilist. the path of least resistance would be the only path that makes any sense, but it would still not be the purpose to life, only consistent with the belief that nothing means anything.
     
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    #15 TinyBubbles, Aug 3, 2010
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  16. Razare

    Razare Community Member

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    How can a nihilist be 100% certain they'll never change their mind? They can't know the future.

    Having different philosophical beliefs throughout your life is quite normal. It's illogical, but morality has no logic. Confining it to any logical argument is committing a fallacy to begin with.

    We make up our own view, and implement those views while living. Views clash, people change, society moves forward. To say anything is certain is almost certainly wrong, except perhaps highly proven scientific principles.

    Also, I agree that nihilism doesn't mean automatic suicide. It could easily mean you adopt a view of personal satisfaction. It's meaningless but you like it. A nihilist shouldn't care what they do; from their point of view morally they could do whatever and it's all good.

    I took the class Ethics in college which was very much a discussion of morality by different philosophers. I disliked it entirely because for me it was all a bunch of nonsense. I understood the real morality of the world before going to that class, and my views weren't changed. From my point of view all philosophers everywhere who try to expound any one morality are total morons. There is no one solution to it; they should quit their meaningless philosophizing.

    People who find single absolute answers to society are essentially variations of Hitler, whether their beliefs are noble or hateful. The noble ones may benefit society in the long run, but they're generally still delusional in my book. I'd only exempt such philosophers that were guided by a higher power. But since we could never verify which were and which weren't, it's still up to us to decide our morality in life.
     
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  17. Billy

    Billy Contents Under Pressure
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    As for the rest of the thread, its semantics. Not all nihilists believe humans are evil and destructive. Ergo, not all nihilists should kill themselves. Killing yourself in general is usually considered a pretty retarded thing to do. Unless you were bitten by zombie, in which case its an act of love to defend your family from you when you rise from your grave to eat the flesh of the living.
     
  18. Shai Gar

    Shai Gar Guest

    I am the man in the hat.
     
  19. Billy

    Billy Contents Under Pressure
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    Thats an existentialist. Nietzsche was too.
     
  20. Faye

    Faye ^_^
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    Nihilist: person who believes that life is without subjective meaning or value (at least in the existential sense). This does not preclude the possibility of finding subjective meaning in life, and this is what the existentialists advocated (and the people labeled as existentialists but denied it, such as Heidegger who was basically the father of the movement).

    But if you want to talk about pure nihilists, then I suggest looking at this: http://www.nihil.org/

    Go ahead and look at the links- they have some interesting essays.

    http://www.anus.com/zine/nihilism/

    That ^ is a good one.

    If a person really felt that life was meaningless in every way possible, they wouldn't need encouragement for committing suicide. A nihilist is not necessarily such a person, though.
     
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