More about the J vs P differences | INFJ Forum

More about the J vs P differences

Discussion in 'Psychology and MBTI' started by Fireflies-free, Mar 15, 2009.

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  1. Fireflies-free

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    Are Js supposed to be organised. I'm definitely INFJ yet I'm very disorganised. For example, my room is always extremely messy, and I never filed my notes at school - they always ended up in a huge random pile on my desk! Mostly, my surroundings are chaotic yet I manage to be very productive.

    I don't tend to plan things in depth either. I tend to go with the flow a bit. Like, if I went on holiday, I wouldn't plan in depth what i was going to do, I'd rather decide while I'm there, what I feel like doing on the day, and I mostly do things at the last minute (packing, organising what I need for an event etc). Are these not P characteristics?

    I think where my Jness kicks in is with my morals and how I make decisions. I tend to stick very firmly to what I perceive (judge) as right, and if I plan to do something, I do it. Also, I'm very hard on myself.

    Can anybody clarify any of this for me? How are INFJs and INFPs different?
     
  2. Milon

    Milon Director of Glomps
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    I'm actually kind of confused on J vs P. It's been suggested to me that I might actually be INFP not INFJ. It is also highly likely that if I am INFP, I learned to be J because of childhood ideals - what I thought was desired, etc. I second request for clarification! :)
     
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  3. Zero

    Zero Regular Poster

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    People who prefer judging may:
    • like to make decisions, or at least like to have things decided
    • look task oriented
    • like to make lists of things to do
    • like to get their work done before playing
    • plan work to avoid rushing just before deadline
    • sometimes make decisions too quickly without enough information
    • sometimes focus so much on the goal or plan that they miss the need to change directions at times
    People who prefer perceiving may:
    • like staying open to respond to whatever happens
    • look more loose and casual
    • like to keep laid-out plans to a minimum
    • like to approach work as play or mix work and play
    • work in burst of energy, and enjoy rushing just before deadlines
    • sometimes stay open to new information so long that they miss making decisions
    • sometimes focus so much on adapting to the moment that they do not settle on a direction or plan


    You have to keep in mind that Judging and Perceiving are just what you do with the information gathered through your T or F preference. People are not usually 100% J, or 100% P. For most people I've seen it's more of a 70/30 split, which is why there's a lot of confusion about the differences. J when paired with the NF can get very scatter-brained or second guess themselves a lot, because even though they love to make decisions, the right decision will conflict sometimes with what they feel is right. This is why INFJ's from what I've noticed seem to take so long to make a decision. It isn't that you don't want to decide, you just want to know all the options first.


    By the way, P and J are both good tools to have, whether you're type prefers them or not. The reason being: Everyone needs to work, and everyone needs to relax. Work without play makes for a boring day!
     
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    #3 Zero, Mar 15, 2009
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2009
  4. tovlo

    tovlo Well-known member

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    The difference between INFJ and INFP is the difference between Ni dominant/Fe auxillary and Fi dominant/Ne auxillary.

    I think the only reason the neat/planned vs. messy/go-with-the-flow comparison comes up is because for an XXXJ type their judging function is the one that is extroverted--meaning the one others observe in them. For an XXXP type their perceiving function is the one that is extroverted. In INFJ/INFP discernment this can be confusing because the function that is actually dominant for an INFJ (though quietly hidden in their interior) is the perceiving function and for an INFP their quietly hidden dominant function is their judging function.

    So, externally an INFJ may present goal-oriented or driven to completion of tasks, generally with a strong degree of social obligation motivating, while externally an INFP may seem an explosion of exploratory ideas that seem to have no need for completion. However internally an INFJ's primary experience is one of perception (Ni) and an INFP's primary experience is one of judgment (Fi).

    I think the messy/planned thing is a short-hand way to weed out those externalized tendencies to clarify whether the F/T or N/S is externalized, but I don't think it's particularly effective. The INFJ's I have known have often described themselves as being physically cluttered, which makes sense given inferior Se and a low sense of priority to physical experience. Yet they do often seem to have that goal-oriented drive toward completion of tasks that INFP's generally do not share.

    I think there are a multitude of things that can help differentiate someone with preferences more in line with INFJ MBTI type than INFP MBTI type and to me messy vs. cluttered does not seem to be a very effective one.

    On a personal note, when travelling I tend to do a huge information gathering thing and then a detailed planning stage, but when it comes time to actually travel I'll feel morbidly confined if I'm held to the plans. I very much travel in a go-with-the-mood-of-the-moment way, but I feel most comfortable doing the immense research and planning phase first so I can construct a framework of understanding within which I feel free and safe to move more casually within. If I don't get that framework of understanding, then I can be anxious about the unknown expectations of an environment or potentially missed experiences.
     
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  5. Quinlan

    Quinlan Right the First Time!

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    The OP sounds like an INFP, Fi is particularly stubborn when it comes to morals.
     
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  6. INTJ Guy

    INTJ Guy Regular Poster

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    That seems to be the only place where my "Jness" kicks in also. Ps are always after new experiences, and so am I.

    I think I'm more of a J, though. Say I'm just staying at home, and out of nowhere my dad says we're going to a fancy place to eat and that we'd be leaving in 5 minutes. I'd be excited at the spontaneity, but at the same time I'd be frustrated that he didn't tell me earlier so that I'd have time to shower, iron my clothes, and do my hair and shit.

    When I'm trying to analyze my friends and figure out their types in my spare time the J/P variable is always the hardest for me to call.
     
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  7. tovlo

    tovlo Well-known member

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    True about Fi. I thought something similar when I read the OP, combined with the packing at the last minute. I'm the sort that packs a week ahead of time using a carefully planned list and then lives out of a suitcase for the week so I'm sure I'm ready when it's time to go.

    I do think there's too little information to really be able to make a solid guess at P vs. J though.

    The "if I plan to do something, I do it" definitely points away from INFP in my mind.
     
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  8. Zero

    Zero Regular Poster

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    I think Tovlo hit the nail on the head with her posts.
     
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  9. Flavus Aquila

    Flavus Aquila Finding My Place in the Sun
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    I have not read the typology stuff for years and have kind of forgotten most of it. But I have noticed that Sensors who are Js tend to have extreemely organised physical environments, but very dissorganised thoughts.

    On the other hand, Intuitors, who are Js tend to have very organised thoughts, but dissorganised physical environments.
     
  10. just me

    just me GONE

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    Talked a friend of mine into taking the online test. He has been my friend for years. I thought he was estp and he tested estj though the weakest(22%) was the J. Where did I misjudge? What did I not see? Something I do not yet understand or something he had hidden for years?
     
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  11. Milon

    Milon Director of Glomps
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    Von's got a good checklist here.
     
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  12. Pristinegirl

    Pristinegirl Well-known member

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    OmG what an EPIC check list. It's actually valid. I find that virtually all P's apply on me haha, although some J's too ^^
     
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  13. tovlo

    tovlo Well-known member

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    I'm glad it seemed to make sense.
     
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  14. poetrygirl

    poetrygirl Community Member

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    The thing with me is I "Prefer" to be organized, but I tend to not be. I like to make list of things to do. I think about what I'm going to do and how I'm going to do it. It makes me feel confident and on top of things. But I think I'm so obsessed with things being perfect that I procrastinate and don't do it. And the whole time I'm procrastinating I can't really enjoy myself because I'm thinking about what I should be doing but I'm too lazy to do and how it's going to affect me. Like my room it's disgusting right now and always has been. My backpack is gross. I think it's just a teenage thing though. I see myself being much more organized when I'm older at least that's what I'm hoping for. It's just so easy to drift off into lala land and write poetry or go online. I'm just so focused internally that the exterior goes down hill.
     
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    #14 poetrygirl, Mar 18, 2009
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2009
  15. poetrygirl

    poetrygirl Community Member

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    Thank you. That's exactly how I feel perfectly.
     
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  16. arbygil

    arbygil Passing through

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    Aheh...Poetry girl, we could be twins. Sadly, it's not just the teen years. And I can tell you from experience if you can't make the change now, it'll follow you for the rest of your life. *Cue ominous music*
     
  17. poetrygirl

    poetrygirl Community Member

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    :m077:Nooooooooooooo!



    (haha I've been waiting for a chance to use that monkey)
     
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    #17 poetrygirl, Mar 20, 2009
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2009
  18. CoffeeShopDiva

    CoffeeShopDiva Community Member

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    Yeah - that's very true. I'm 24 - my room is now, and has always been messy.

    I don't like mess in the rooms I share with others, though (like the living room, kitchen, etc).
     
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  19. Milon

    Milon Director of Glomps
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    Truth! Space I share is space I want clean. My own space, though, meh.
     
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