Missing Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370

[say what]

Malaysia Airlines missing plane: Here's what we know Thursday

After six days of searching, U.S. aviation investigators say they now believe that a missing Malaysia Airlines plane flew on for four or five hours after contact was lost with the aircraft.

If that's true, they say, searchers could be looking for the plane in the wrong spot.

Controversy still remains following the report from The Wall Street Journal that U.S. national security officials think the plane continued on after communications ended based on data automatically downloaded from the plane to the manufacturers of its engines - Rolls Royce. Malaysia's Defense Minister denied that report, and claims that both Rolls Royce and Boeing also deny the report is accurate.

Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 had 239 people on board when it disappeared early Saturday morning after leaving Kuala Lumpur for Beijing.


Here's what we know Thursday:

What looked to be debris on a Chinese satellite image released Wednesday was not found by searchers, according to a Malaysian official. Later, the official said the satellite images showing something large and light in color floating in the South China Sea were "mistakes."

According to The Wall Street Journal report, U.S. counterterrorism officials are looking at the possibility that someone on Flight 370 may have diverted it toward "an undisclosed location" after turning off the plane's transponders.

According to The Telegraph, in June 2013, a safety alert for the Boeing 777 was issued, telling companies that flew the plane to check for corrosion and cracks in the crown fuselage around a satellite antenna.

Forty-three ships and 40 aircraft are searching for the plane.

Developments from Wednesday include:

Officials have announced that the area being searched has been expanded. It now covers 27,000 square miles.
Forty-two ships and 39 planes are in on the search.

On Tuesday, a Malaysian Air Force official told CNN that the plane appeared to have veered hundreds of miles off course before disappearing from radar screens. On Wednesday, Gen. Rodzali Daud, head of the Malaysian Air Force, said officials weren't sure if the object that disappeared from radar screens was Flight 370.

Developments from Tuesday include:

According to the BBC, Military radar suggests the plane veered west before vanishing from the radar.

Interpol said Tuesday that the two passengers who used stolen passports to board the flight were Iranians seeking asylum in Germany. Interpol Secretary General Ronald K. Noble identified the men as Pouri Nourmohammadi, 19, and Delavar Seyedmohammaderza, 29.

Authorities are concentrating search efforts between the northeast coast of Malaysia and southwest Vietnam. They are also searching thousands of miles of water off the west coast of the Malaysian Peninsula, in the Strait of Malacca and north into the Andaman Sea, according to CNN.

The Daily Mail is reporting that a man claims to have seen a 'bright light descending at high speed', toward the South China Sea northwest of Malaysia. Alif Fathi Abdul Hadi, 29, reports seeing the light about four minutes after the last radar contact was made with the aircraft.

Developments from Monday include:

Vietnamese searchers Sunday looked for an object spotted in the South China Sea thought to be a life raft from the plane. According to CNN, the object was found, but it turned out to be a moss-covered cap of a cable reel.

Vietnamese officials also said that they spotted from the air what was believed to be the door of an airplane floating in the South China Sea, but searchers on ships were unable to locate it.
The plane appeared to be turning back to Kuala Lumpur when it disappeared from radar, according to Malaysia's air force chief Rodzali Daud.
There was no communication from the pilots nor alerts from the plane prior to its disappearance.

Two passengers on the flight were using stolen passports. The passports were originally issued in Italy and Austria. Both had been reported missing. Tickets purchased using the passports were purchased almost simultaneously, according to the BBC.

According to The Daily Mail, 34 aircraft and 40 ships from 10 nations are now involved in the search.

The Daily Mail is also reporting that five passengers who check in for the flight never boarded the plane.

Chinese media is reporting that passengers' mobile phones are connecting when their numbers are being called, but the calls are not being picked up.

From: http://blog.al.com/wire/2014/03/malaysia_airlines_missing_plan_3.html

[MENTION=1871]muir[/MENTION] , what are your thoughts!?

 

[Kgal]

Sounds like the plot of an old Twilight Zone episode.

Hahahahaha.... yeh....it does. Miss that show.

 

[cvp12gh5]

Its in the ocean.


That or aliens. You can never rule out aliens. Sneaky little buggers.

My money is on the Greys.

They probably saw this pic online mocking their penchant for cows, and decided to shut us down.



If that's the case, we've just been schooled.

 

[muir]

@muir , what are your thoughts!?

er...truely bizarre!

Black boxes are designed to survive bomb blasts. They also have a locator beacon.

When missiles hit planes they leave a signature on the radar but there wasn't one and there was no distress call

What kind of event would not leave time for a distress call and would knock out a black box?

There really aren't many things that would do that

 

[Lerxst]

er...truely bizarre!

Black boxes are designed to survive bomb blasts. They also have a locator beacon.

When missiles hit planes they leave a signature on the radar but there wasn't one and there was no distress call

What kind of event would not leave time for a distress call and would knock out a black box?

There really aren't many things that would do that

1 - Hypoxia - cabin pressure set improperly can confuse people and cause unconsciousness.

2 - Excessive G's - from a sudden dive or loss of control.

3 - Mid Air Collision - causing severe damage to the plane, making it impossible to call in a "mayday".

4 - Bomb - self explanatory

5 - Fire - can destroy electronics and controls, making the plane impossible to control - may also cause Hypoxia/smoke inhalation.

6 - Catastrophic structural failure - plane may have just disintegrated before any call was made.

7 - Hijacking resulting in any of the above

8 - CFIT - "Controlled Flight Into Terrain" Plane may have been behaving normally but 0 visibility and a failure to accurately read instruments caused pilots to allow the plane to fly into the sea/ground.

Depending on the depth of the water, assuming the plane crashed into water, the black box signals would be weak at best. Also if the plane veered far off course, they could be out of range and damaged.

They've all been well documented in the past, multiple times, for one reason or another. Despite improvements made to the technology, humans are always a major factor in these things.

 

[say what]

This just came on the update site:

Researchers have detected a "seafloor event" in the waters between Malaysia and Vietnam nearly two hours after flight MH370 went missing.

Researchers at the University of Science and Technology of China said: "The seafloor event could have been caused by the plane possibly plunging into the sea".

The report was revealed by China state news agency Xinhua which said the event was picked up on two seismographs based in Malaysia and was pinpointed on an area 72 miles to the north east of the last definite contact with the plane.

Researchers added: "The strength of the earthquake wave indicates the plunge was catastrophic."



http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/missing-malaysia-airlines-flight-live-3235735#ixzz2vwOYwzmz
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However, this conflicts with a CBC radio update that I heard a few minutes age that said they have confirmed that the plane was being flown deliberately towards the Andaman Islands for 4 hours.

Hmm!

Not to mention all the smear that's going on about the pilot, and inviting women into the cockpit (hehehehe...)


I find all the conflicting reports odd. It seems to me that they know much more than they're telling us, and the different government agencies are not on the same page about which story they want to public to know.

 

[Stu]

Conflicting stories are the norm when agencies have no idea has happened.
I would be quite surprised if those poor souls are not found within 100 miles of the last contact point.

 

[sprinkles]

er...truely bizarre!

Black boxes are designed to survive bomb blasts. They also have a locator beacon.

When missiles hit planes they leave a signature on the radar but there wasn't one and there was no distress call

What kind of event would not leave time for a distress call and would knock out a black box?

There really aren't many things that would do that

Communications signal distances can be surprisingly short without boosting/relays. Something broadcasting from under the water wouldn't be that easy to find right away.

Transponders are also some times turned off. Pilots can turn on or off just about everything on the aircraft separately - this is important to have in case of an electrical problem in a particular component that could cause a fire, or because of an error in the device requiring it to be shut down or reset. They typically have protocols for shutting down any relevant component mid flight if necessary. In extreme emergencies they may even pop breakers or pull fuses to shut something down.

There's usually two transponders on an aircraft but only one is allowed to run at a time, so if they shut it off for whatever reason and didn't turn on the other one nor reset the first one, they wouldn't have any.

 

[sprinkles]

Also even the black box can be shut off. I don't know if the locator beacon can be shut off, but the recording can be shut off, and the beacon itself is weak.

This has happened before in hijackings where the perpetrator wanted to hide their actions with the plane.

 

[Kgal]

Thanks for the education [MENTION=6917]sprinkles[/MENTION].

I found this today from CNN:

(CNN) -- Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 disappeared Saturday somewhere over Southeast Asia.
Authorities don't know where the plane is or what happened to it.
Here are answers to frequently asked questions about this baffling disappearance:

http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/13/world/asia/malaysia-airlines-questions/

I found this part interesting:

What is a transponder?

It's a radio transmitter in the cockpit that works with ground radar. When it receives a radar signal, it returns a code that identifies the aircraft, its position, altitude and call sign. Air traffic controllers use the signals to determine a plane's speed and direction.


Why did it stop working?

That's one of many million-dollar questions. The transponder is situated between the pilots and can be turned off with a twist of the wrist, but former airline captain Mark Weiss said that, because of the vital information the transponder provides, it's highly unlikely a pilot would turn it off. Without the cockpit voice recorder and flight data recorder, it's difficult to say who was in the cockpit and what happened, Weiss said. Other experts give conflicting opinions: One says the circumstances point to someone -- perhaps a hijacker -- deliberately turning the plane around; another says a catastrophic power failure could explain the anomalies.


What about the plane's data and voice recorders?
Searchers would love to find them. The recorders would hold a trove of information on what was going on in the cockpit and technical data about what the plane was doing and how it was performing. The problem is that investigators have not been able to detect where they might be. So, until searchers can narrow their efforts, they won't help.


Was anything else sending data on the plane?
Authorities believe "pings" from the plane were transmitted to satellites for four to five hours after the transponder stopped sending signals, a senior U.S. official told CNN. The pings from the plane's Aircraft Communications Addressing and Reporting System, or ACARS, suggest that the plane flew to the Indian Ocean, the official said. But the reports on this latest lead have conflicted: Malaysian authorities earlier said earlier that nothing on the plane was transmitting after 1:07 a.m. Saturday.

and this:

Is this the first time a plane has vanished?

No. Perhaps no disappearance proved as vexing as Air France 447, which went down after departing Rio de Janeiro on June 1, 2009. It took four searches and almost two years before the bulk of the wreckage and majority of bodies were recovered. The voice and data recorders weren't found on the ocean floor until May 2011.

Apparently now they have the ability to find the black box if it's still intact and was left on before the plane went down.

 

[say what]

Communications signal distances can be surprisingly short without boosting/relays. Something broadcasting from under the water wouldn't be that easy to find right away.

Transponders are also some times turned off. Pilots can turn on or off just about everything on the aircraft separately - this is important to have in case of an electrical problem in a particular component that could cause a fire, or because of an error in the device requiring it to be shut down or reset. They typically have protocols for shutting down any relevant component mid flight if necessary. In extreme emergencies they may even pop breakers or pull fuses to shut something down.

There's usually two transponders on an aircraft but only one is allowed to run at a time, so if they shut it off for whatever reason and didn't turn on the other one nor reset the first one, they wouldn't have any.

Interesting! I was just wondering about this. I had assumed that blackboxes (are they the same as transponders?) were continuously transmitting a signal and couldn't be turned off! Also that they were pretty much a beacon in the dark...it makes more sense now if blackbox signals are designed more for above water location. Thanks for the info!!

 

[say what]

Thanks for the education [MENTION=6917]sprinkles[/MENTION].

I found this today from CNN:

(CNN) -- Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 disappeared Saturday somewhere over Southeast Asia.
Authorities don't know where the plane is or what happened to it.
Here are answers to frequently asked questions about this baffling disappearance:

http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/13/world/asia/malaysia-airlines-questions/

I found this part interesting:




and this:



Apparently now they have the ability to find the black box if it's still intact and was left on before the plane went down.

Wow! 2 years? That's amazing....honestly, you forget how things can still go 'missing' on earth- there are parts we've never been able to get too!

 

[sprinkles]

Interesting! I was just wondering about this. I had assumed that blackboxes (are they the same as transponders?) were continuously transmitting a signal and couldn't be turned off! Also that they were pretty much a beacon in the dark...it makes more sense now if blackbox signals are designed more for above water location. Thanks for the info!!

Yeah the transponder is what tells control where the plane is and what it is doing. This can be shut off. Some times a transponder will have an error and give false information back to control which is one reason they can be turned off. It has happened where a transponder was malfunctioning, was turned off, and they neglected to turn on the backup transponder.

The black box has only a small homing beacon with a range of a few miles. They're low power because they're designed to run on a battery for as long as possible, which could be months. They wouldn't hear anything from the black box itself until the unfortunate event that the plane actually crashes and they have to go find it.

 

[say what]

Yeah the transponder is what tells control where the plane is and what it is doing. This can be shut off. Some times a transponder will have an error and give false information back to control which is one reason they can be turned off. It has happened where a transponder was malfunctioning, was turned off, and they neglected to turn on the backup transponder.

The black box has only a small homing beacon with a range of a few miles. They're low power because they're designed to run on a battery for as long as possible, which could be months. They wouldn't hear anything from the black box itself until the unfortunate event that the plane actually crashes and they have to go find it.

Very interesting! Thanks [MENTION=6917]sprinkles[/MENTION] ! I was totally misinformed about blackboxes- I kind of thought they were a tool that basically inhibited planes from going missing.


Here's an interesting recent development

More incredible details continue to emerge over the missing flight.

It is now being reported that the missing plane climbed to 45,000 feet AFTER it disappeared from civilian radar .

The dramatic change in altitude - which is above the recommended limit for a Boeing 777-200 - was picked up by Malaysian military radar signals.

The New York Times reports that the aircraft also made a sharp turn to the west.

All of this would suggest the plane was still being flown by a pilot and raises more fears that it could have been hijacked.



http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/missing-malaysia-airlines-flight-live-3235735#ixzz2vyp6ll68
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Investigators now believe the plane could have flown hundreds of miles off course to the north west.

Experts are now convinced the plane’s disappearance with 239 passengers and crew was no accident.

They fear air pirates with flying knowledge hijacked the Kuala Lumpur to Beijing flight and diverted it towards the Andaman Islands in the Bay of Bengal.

One senior Malaysian police official said: “What we can say is we are looking at sabotage, with hijack still on the cards.”



http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/missing-malaysia-airlines-flight-live-3235735#ixzz2vypgQGuJ
Follow us: @DailyMirror on Twitter | DailyMirror on Facebook

 

[say what]

Inmarsat's satellites provide information on aircraft's real-time positions and help air traffic controllers know where planes are.

The new revelations that satellite systems picked up signals from the missing flight FIVE HOURS after it disappeared off the map indicates again that something untoward could have happened.

It comes after authorities massively expanded the search area for the plane.



http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/missing-malaysia-airlines-flight-live-3235735#ixzz2vyt6cYef
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Hmmm....The recent information they're releasing is making it sound like a hijacking (I wonder how the man's story about seeing the burning plane fits in)...it would be sad to think that it was hijacked and that the passengers were held hostage. Could they even still be alive if that's the case? I wonder who they were after...I mean, why no ransom? What would be the point?

 

[cvp12gh5]

Hmmm....The recent information they're releasing is making it sound like a hijacking (I wonder how the man's story about seeing the burning plane fits in)...it would be sad to think that it was hijacked and that the passengers were held hostage. Could they even still be alive if that's the case? I wonder who they were after...I mean, why no ransom? What would be the point?

Well if it was terrorists that hijacked the plane and you go with the dry run theory, then no ransom would be involved.

 

[say what]

Well if it was terrorists that hijacked the plane and you go with the dry run theory, then no ransom would be involved.

oh no, dry run theory? yikes.......YIKES!

 

[Eventhorizon]

The official said that hijacking was no longer a theory. "It is conclusive," he said.

He said evidence that led to the conclusion were signs that the plane's communications were switched off deliberately, data about the flight path and indications the plane was steered in a way to avoid detection by radar.



So given this, there is the smallest possibility the plane was actually landed some place.

 

[Stu]

Investigators have also examined data transmitted from the plane’s Rolls-Royce engines that showed it descended 40,000 feet in the span of a minute, according to a senior American official briefed on the investigation. But investigators do not believe the readings are accurate because the aircraft would most likely have taken longer to fall such a distance.
“A lot of stock cannot be put in the altitude data” sent from the engines, one official said. “A lot of this doesn’t make sense.


.....But the person who examined the data said it left little doubt that the airliner flew near or through the southern tip of Thailand, then back across Peninsular Malaysia, near the city of Penang, and out over the sea again. That is in part because the data is based on signals recorded by two radar stations, at the Royal Malaysian Air Force’s Butterworth base on the peninsula’s west coast, near Penang, and at Kota Bharu, on the northeast coast. Two radars tracking a contact can significantly increase the reliability of the readings.

......as investigators have examined the flight manifest and looked into the two Iranian men who were on the plane traveling with stolen passports, they have become convinced that there is no clear connection to terrorism.


....An Asia-based pilot of a Boeing 777-200, who asked not to be identified because he was not authorized to speak to reporters, said an ascent above the plane’s service limit of 43,100 feet, along with a depressurized cabin, could have rendered the passengers and crew unconscious, and could be a deliberate maneuver by a pilot or a hijacker.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/15/world/asia/malaysia-military-radar.html

 

[Sriracha]

I just wanted to throw this out there, b/c as Mr.S and I were eating lunch and watching the CC on the news regarding the crash ... there is this push for "real time" flight recording. Mr.S responded that in the U.S.A. all planes are being recorded in real time, it's impossible to lose them. The dispatcher is the person tracking real time flight constantly. How things are handled in other countries is another story.

So yes ... aliens and all that. I'm kind of hoping for a sequel to LOST.