Mass Shooting of Children - WTF?!?!

[muir]

@muir
You are very knowledgable on this subject...it's impressive.

Many do not want to believe that things like this exist, but the proof is there.

And "The Good Shepherd" was an excellent movie. One of my favs.

Thanks

What is conscious to us is like a light shining on a point. What is unconscious is the darkness. The more we learn the wider that beam of light becomes and the more of the picture we can see

The only way that this crazy world is going to regain any sanity is if all this stuff is made conscious so that we can all see it; because the terrible things that happen can only happen in the shadows not in the light of the publics gaze

What the corporate media seek to do is to keep that light beam shined very narrowly on subjects that they choose whilst distracting us all from the important subjects. the internet is destroying their ability to do that because information is spreading like wildfire

eventually a critical mass of people will know what is happening and it won't matter whether or not they shut the internet down or if they silence a few dissenters. if enough people know then they will have a real battle on their hands

 

[Stu]

Yes absolutely i think it was staged

Building 7 went down without being hit by a plane?

Um, just because it is not entirely clear exactly what the physical chain of events were which led from airliners hitting the towers to building seven collapsing in no way justifies the blaming the US gov (secret or otherwise) with the deliberate extermination of thousands of its own citizens.

There was no need for a Pearl Harbor event to keep (i repeat 'keep') the US citizenry on board with economic and military domination of the world's most productive oilfields. Ten dollars a gallon will justify any use of American force anywhere.

By focusing on the illusion of overarching power one only loses their belief that they can make a difference.

 

[muir]

Um, just because it is not entirely clear exactly what the physical chain of events were which led from airliners hitting the towers to building seven collapsing in no way justifies the blaming the US gov (secret or otherwise) with the deliberate extermination of thousands of its own citizens.

There was no need for a Pearl Harbor event to keep (i repeat 'keep') the US citizenry on board with economic and military domination of the world's most productive oilfields. Ten dollars a gallon will justify any use of American force anywhere.

By focusing on the illusion of overarching power one only loses their belief that they can make a difference.

The pearl harbour event was required to get the american public on board for the invasion of afghanistan and iraq and more besides as a retired 4 star general admits in the clip below; he says there were plans afoot before 911....but before that here is the statement from the project for a new american century:

Section V of Rebuilding America's Defenses, entitled "Creating Tomorrow's Dominant Force", includes the sentence: "Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event––like a new Pearl Harbor" (51).[SUP][14][/SUP]

Though not arguing that Bush administration PNAC members were complicit in those attacks, other social critics such as commentator Manuel Valenzuela and journalist Mark Danner,[SUP][39][/SUP][SUP][40][/SUP][SUP][41][/SUP] investigative journalist John Pilger, in New Statesman,[SUP][42][/SUP] and former editor of The San Francisco Chronicle Bernard Weiner, in CounterPunch,[SUP][43][/SUP] all argue that PNAC members used the events of 9/11 as the "Pearl Harbor" that they needed––that is, as an "opportunity" to "capitalize on" (in Pilger's words), in order to enact long-desired plans. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_Century#.22New_Pearl_Harbor.22)



[video=youtube;amDKQJS8uJ0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amDKQJS8uJ0&playnext=1&list=PL39420EF48DF1 AE02&feature=results_main[/video]

Concerning building 7 going down when it takes weeks to rig building like that with explosives (showing it was already rigged to blow before 911) and also the various insurance policies taken out that enriched certain people, this website has some interesting info: http://www.garlicandgrass.org/issue8/Don_Paul.cfm

 

[subwayrider]

[MENTION=1939]Stu[/MENTION]

I don't know about that. Public support for the war appeared to be in great decline after the first five years or so. Most Americans after that point were very unhappy with all the tax dollars being spent on the wars, too. Obama campaigned on a promise to get the troops out of the Middle East and back home, and he received a good deal of the popular vote, if I remember correctly.

With my limited knowledge of physics and architecture, the Twins going down looked a lot like a demolition. It was so neat and tidy, it just fell straight down. Common sense is often unreliable, though.

Are you saying you trust the government?

 

[muir]

By focusing on the illusion of overarching power one only loses their belief that they can make a difference.

No i disagree i think its our ignorance that keeps them strong

I think that once awareness grows then action will follow

We have seen the first rumblings in the occupy movement and tea party movement but as more and more people see the full extent of the conspiracy then we will see some real opposition

I think also that there is a sense of urgency to all this because they are going to try and control the internet and the internet is what is giving this generation an opportunity to find the truth that i don't think any other generation has ever had

I also think that it is concerted effort that makes a difference ie each person needs to do a little which then all adds up to a lot. its in large numbers that the strength of the people lies, but acting together in concert as an informed group they could weild a lot of power

 

[subwayrider]

[MENTION=1871]muir[/MENTION]

If they get the internet, we're F'd

 

[cvp12gh5]

No i disagree i think its our ignorance that keeps them strong

I think that once awareness grows then action will follow

We have seen the first rumblings in the occupy movement and tea party movement but as more and more people see the full extent of the conspiracy then we will see some real opposition

I think also that there is a sense of urgency to all this because they are going to try and control the internet and the internet is what is giving this generation an opportunity to find the truth that i don't think any other gnereation has ever had

Which is ironic being that government research created the Internet...

 

[muir]

@muir

If they get the internet, we're F'd

Well they are trying, which is why we've seen this rush of legislation such as PIPA, SOPA and ACTA

There was an avaaz campaign recently to send a petition to the World Conference on International Telecommunications but they seem to ba accusing Russia, China and Iran of trying to censor the internet but i don't think that's the full story, after all the pieces of legislation above were not created by those countries they were created by the US and europe

So what i think we are seeing is a power struggle over the internet between the neoliberal club (US, UK and some European countries) and the eastern club of China, Russia and Iran, but i'm pretty sure all those governments all want to spy on their own people

A new spy agency in the US called the National Counterterrorism Centre has been given sweeping powers by Obama that circumvent the 4th amendment of the constitution and allow them to spy on Us citizens: http://rt.com/usa/news/agency-us-nctc-surveillance-998/

Here's an interview with an ex NSA whistleblower saying that the government are building new facilities to store the data of everything people do online: http://rt.com/usa/news/surveillance-spying-e-mail-citizens-178/

Julian assange said this recently about the current situation online:

''The people who control the interception of the internet and, to some degree also, physically control the big data warehouses and the international fiber-optic lines. We all think of the internet as some kind of Platonic Realm where we can throw out ideas and communications and web pages and books and they exist somewhere out there. Actually, they exist on web servers in New York or Nairobi or Beijing, and information comes to us through satellite connections or through fiber-optic cables.

So whoever physically controls this controls the realm of our ideas and communications. And whoever is able to sit on those communications channels, can intercept entire nations, and that’s the new game in town, as far as state spying is concerned – intercepting entire nations, not individuals.''

An interview with him can be watched here: http://rt.com/news/assange-internet-control-totalitarian-943/

i think the internet is worth fighting for and i also think that information needs to be got out now in case they start closing down the flow of info

 

[Lerxst]

So you will tell the parents that lost their children "Get over it, it's just an attachment?!"...are you fuckin serious?? Obsessing over the murder of your child is a wasted energy??

I am amazed at the insensitivity on this thread....really fucked up. If you don't care; don't spread your insenstivity or try to rationalize a human loss that probably only a parent can feel and perhaps never recover from.

Those parents have whatever feelings they have. It's not my problem to think about them endlessly, sympathize with them, cry with them or experience any of the emotions they do. In fact, it would be completely insensitive to do any of that - it's not my child who died, how would I ever know what pain they feel? Any emotion on my part is a selfish one that stems only from my shattered illusion of human nature which, I've mentioned, I don't hold onto either.

It's not insensitivity at all! It's a larger sensitivity towards the overall picture of human kind. Crying over the loss of a person I don't know and acting like I'm sharing the pain of a person I don't know isn't going to help the people suffering and isn't going to do any good in working towards a resolution to any of it. Acting compassionately towards people I do know and (in a Democracy) resolving the issue through social change in the system, will serve a much greater good.

 

[muir]

Which is ironic being that government research created the Internet...

Its a double edged sword

On one hand its emancipating us and on the other hand it is being used to spy on us. i've posted some links to interviews in my previous post that shed some more light

facebook for example has an interface with the CIA. it is the world's best spy database; they know everything about everyone almost:

[video=youtube;Hp8rJVWC2a0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hp8rJVWC2a0[/video]

 

[Solongo]

Those parents have whatever feelings they have. It's not my problem to think about them endlessly, sympathize with them, cry with them or experience any of the emotions they do. In fact, it would be completely insensitive to do any of that - it's not my child who died, how would I ever know what pain they feel? Any emotion on my part is a selfish one that stems only from my shattered illusion of human nature which, I've mentioned, I don't hold onto either.

It's not insensitivity at all! It's a larger sensitivity towards the overall picture of human kind. Crying over the loss of a person I don't know and acting like I'm sharing the pain of a person I don't know isn't going to help the people suffering and isn't going to do any good in working towards a resolution to any of it. Acting compassionately towards people I do know and (in a Democracy) resolving the issue through social change in the system, will serve a much greater good.

I guess that's the problem isn't it? Lack of compasson and empathy for other's suffering and being detached; thinking detachment will help bring in solutions?

It's like what they said; especially during Nazi Germany - it was the lack of caring from the regular people that helped create the montrous atrocities. Just sitting by and watching it happen and never caring to feel anything for others. Its very sad.

 

[Stu]

my limited knowledge

As Heartless points out the US gov is several if not many different, competing power centers. So do I trust it? I trust that those centers will fight to maintain their power.

 

[Lerxst]

I guess that's the problem isn't it? Lack of compasson and empathy for other's suffering and being detached; thinking detachment will help bring in solutions?

It's like what they said; especially during Nazi Germany - it was the lack of caring from the regular people that helped create the montrous atrocities. Just sitting by and watching it happen and never caring to feel anything for others. Its very sad.

You're mistaking non-attachment for modern detachment, as in the Nazis in Germany. Being non-attached in the Buddhist sense is simply not holding on to ideas, thoughts, images, words, etc. so tight for so long they cause suffering in you and others around you. Being "detached" is actually the opposite - you hold on so tight to these things, ideals, principles, thoughts, etc, that your own fear, suffering and anger causes you to create a divide between yourself and others.

It's not a lack of compassion or a lack of empathy, but everything... everything is fleeting - every thought, every event, even our own lives. To hold on to an emotion beyond an event, or a feeling beyond the cause, only creates suffering in you and everyone around you. To suffer over the pain of a lost friend of loved one, only causes you more suffering - they're dead, they aren't going to suffer anymore.

So what good will it do for the entire nation to fly flags at half mast, or TV broadcasts from around the country interviewing sobbing parents? It's just a group effort in holding on too tightly to a certain belief and feeling.

I'm also not saying to forget about the events. Study them, learn about them, find the cause and take steps to prevent future situations like this but don't get emotionally attached to them. When attachment interferes, we make rash and stupid decisions - 9/11 for instance, we grew attached to our place and comfort in the world and when that was shattered, the US declared war on half the world afterwards... and people were lining up at military recruitment offices for the chance to kill Muslims.

People think I'm a sociopath because I engage in the spiritual form of Buddhism, not just the "happy feel good" philosophies everybody borrows from. In reality though, I have a deeper compassion for everyone around me and the entire planet I live on than I ever did in the past. Being emotionally crippled over the death of 27 (or has it changed) people because of my own attachment to an ideal, isn't going to help the other 6 billion on the planet who still need help, compassion and guidance.

 

[tfg345i4u5lw]

I don't think it was some kind of government plot but I am curious if he was on antidepressants.

 

[subwayrider]

I don't think it was some kind of government plot but I am curious if he was on antidepressants.

Those are awful. I'm amazed at the "medicines" that are dished out to (psychiatric) patients every year.

 

[ThomasJ79]

What the heck is going on with mine and the next generation?!!

Awful, truly awful. Those poor kids and parents. This should never happen!

 

[tfg345i4u5lw]

What the heck is going on with mine and the next generation?!!

Awful, truly awful. Those poor kids and parents. This should never happen!

We have a cultural problem dude. What happened today was the symptom of a cultural problem. We have been taught to assume the worst in people. We have a "not my problem" attitude about everything it seems like. If someone would have reached out to the shooter and helped him I doubt this would have happened. He probably became alienated and in his alienation became completely disconnected from other humans. I saw on CNN they were saying he was extremely smart, like almost a genius. So that could have made him feel different too. Still, it could have been prevented if someone noticed he was troubled and tried to help him. Same with the Columbine shooting, those kids just needed some love too.

 

[toska]

I don't think it was some kind of government plot but I am curious if he was on antidepressants.

It does seem like a lot of these people who suddenly flip out and impulsively kill random people were taking SSRIs at the time.

 

[Apone]

It's the kind of thing that just makes you want to give up on pretty much everything.
I don't even know where to begin.

 

[muir]

It's the kind of thing that just makes you want to give up on pretty much everything.
I don't even know where to begin.

That' why these things are orchestrated, to create a state of fear, confusion and shock in the public consciousness. That then provides the elites with the opportunity to do what they want to do while people aren't thinking clearly