logic vs. reason vs. rationality

[jn56uytrx]

I'm curious. I just got done commenting on my Johari window and the fact that I'm overwhelmingly seen as irrational. While I'm a bit surprised because I haven't necessarily made the same self-assessment, it does make sense because in general I've always viewed systems of logic as unnecessarily limiting man-made constructions. I value the order and coherence some if this/then that can bring to an expression, but when a perspective of logic is adhered to strictly and anything veering from conceived or understood rules of logic is judged as worthy of disregard, then I feel sad about losing the value of that discarded thought. Plus, to be honest, the rules simply bewilder me and so it's to my psychological advantage to devalue them.

So as I was considering this irrationality that consumes my being, I kept interchanging the word logic for rationality. I wonder though, is that mix-up just another facet of my ignorance in this realm?

Can anyone explain to me what the nuanced differences between logic, reason, and rationality is? I guess I'd like to understand better my deficiency and consider more whether I want to do anything to improve it.

Also, I'm curious about how a skill I think I have falls into the realm of logic/reason/rationality. I think I have a fair ability to look at a problem, pick out the elements of the problem that if I work at a bit can loosen the knot and provide new solutions or insight. I think I'm also fairly good at noting patterns of behavior, inconsistencies, and contradictions. So, (if I actually possess what I think I possess) how does this fit in the logical/rational realm?

 

[Trifoilum]

I'd say logic is more..rigid, more 1/0, this-or-that. And it sounds more specific (but it's probably just me).

Rationality on the other hand, seems like a general 'way of thinking'. One that's more composed, detached; but the source / what was being thought could be anywhere. Logic is one of them. Or psychology. Or just common speaking. Or ways of the world. Or economy.

One could be rational but not logical (I would call it 'wise'), or logical but irrational (See the internet debate which uses cold hard logic and sprouting fallacies).

Reason, on the other hand, is something different; it's how we make / assume the 'whys' of the world. Why am I saying this? Why are you saying this? That kind of thinking. Reason would be similar with rationalization. Except rationalization is very often done after the decision has been made, and must exist explicitly. Reason may or may not be explicit.

At least that's my current understanding. Can't wait to see other people's!

 

[Kgal]

That's funny.... I always assumed rational meant left brain cognitive thinking/action and ir-rational was emotional/feeling right brain thinking/action.

As in ir-rational behavior might mean deviating from the norm - or - what society says is the norm. It's not always wrong - just different.

I would think it has nothing to do with logical problem solving practices. Maybe it's better to say "Critical Thinking" ability rather than logical. If you can untangle knots and solve problems - then you have logical critical thinking skills.

Forget about being called irrational - Tov.... You have better things to do.

 

[jn56uytrx]

trifoilum: Thanks for that perspective! My contextual understanding is similar to yours.

If I had to break down my own contextual understanding I'd probably say logic was a closed system of rules which give predictable structure to problem-solving, reason is a more innate set of tools describing many different approaches to problem-solving, and rationality is a nature of cognition that leans toward a structured and definable process of decision-making.

The more official definitions (per princeton.edu) have a bit of a circular nature-

logic:

the branch of philosophy that analyzes inference
reasoned and reasonable judgment
the principles that guide reasoning within a given field or situation
the system of operations performed by a computer that underlies the machine's representation of logical operations
a system of reasoning

reason:

a rational motive for a belief or action
an explanation of the cause of some phenomenon
the capacity for rational thought or inference or discrimination
the state of having good sense and sound judgment
a justification for something existing or happening
a fact that logically justifies some premise or conclusion

rationality:

the state of having good sense and sound judgment
the quality of being consistent with or based on logic

k-gal: I think the language is used in several ways and I've heard your understanding (left vs. right brain processing) before. It's possible that this is what those who assessed me were getting at. If it is an assessment of my overall cognitive reasoning ability, I tend to think that my reasoning might have a strong tendency to fall outside of the realm of the structured constraints of logic. That wouldn't make it bad reasoning, but it likely would make it irrational by most definitions, and I'm very OK with that.

I'm curious, in general, by what criteria do people judge thought as rational? What does that mean to people?

 

[bickelz]

I posted something earlier this week about how some people think of me as very logical. Now this just makes me think that they are getting rational and logical mixed up too. Logic is a part of rationality but is not quite as cold.

 

[just me]

quote " I'm curious, in general, by what criteria do people judge thought as rational? What does that mean to people? " unquote

I think irrational judgments come from not understanding or not being informed, misunderstanding or misinformed, the inability to think outside one's own box, possibly vain comprehension of one's own thoughts, or the exact opposite; "he who knows and knows he knows".

I think of teachers in days gone by that seemed close-minded to me, while also thinking of teachers in the past that were leading me to another level of understanding.

I am reminded of my not believing rational thought(that of myself) as being always based on logic.

Reason is, to me, an act of comparisons of sorts. When I use reason, my feelings interact with my thoughts; possibly leaving behind what others may see as rational or logical. I may not actually leave them behind, but I have learned to trust what some others cannot trust in my feelings. Irrational, they may say. So be it, as they may not understand what they cannot accept.

 

[This]

It really depends on your perception of rationality, what people generally refer to as rational thought is not actually rational. In order to have a rational outcome a situation has to have a Nash equilibrium, A Nash Equalibrim is not necessarily the best outcome to said situation but is simply an outcome in which no party would benefit by changing their strategy and could only be avoided using credible threats (warnings).

As far as logic, logic is an ability to use critical thinking. Logic is not necessarily reflective of knowing a perfect strategy but rather is a general idea of thinking in strategic ways.

Reasoning is usually used to diffuse an otherwise illogical move on the part of the person using it.

That's how I understand it at least, I could be wrong but that's what I've been taught.

 

[TinyBubbles]

honestly, they seem like the same thing to me.

 

[just me]

There was quite a diversivied group of things this man never could understand.

 

[aeon]

Reason is a mental faculty (or ability) found in humans, that is able to generate conclusions from assumptions or premises. In other words, it is amongst other things the means by which rational beings propose specific reasons, or explanations of cause and effect. - Wikipedia, from Merriam-Webster

Given this definition, reasoning, or that which we call reason, need not be rational or logical. All reason requires is a conclusion based upon assumption(s) or premise(s). Consider also:

Unreasonable - not guided by or based on good sense, or, beyond the limits of acceptability or fairness. - New Oxford American Dictionary

Given this definition, it can be said that unreasonable is not the exact functional opposite of reasonable, despite the use of the prefix