I think I have learned and experienced enough to think and say this quite comfortably, and if one of my friends was every assaulted or abused as well, i would help them to the same. ofcourse it doesnt happen straight away. it took me a long time and lots of learning, and not much support from a culture that is ignorant to the concepts of spiritual growth and health. I'm a pretty standard ordinary person, and what i wanted most after some of the things happened to me was to move on, heal and get on with my life. I dont think there are many people that just want to stay mired in their grief.
Law and the Sex Offenders Register
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I think I have learned and experienced enough to think and say this quite comfortably, and if one of my friends was every assaulted or abused as well, i would help them to the same. ofcourse it doesnt happen straight away. it took me a long time and lots of learning, and not much support from a culture that is ignorant to the concepts of spiritual growth and health. I'm a pretty standard ordinary person, and what i wanted most after some of the things happened to me was to move on, heal and get on with my life. I dont think there are many people that just want to stay mired in their grief.
Good for you.
Others will do the same in their own time and on their own terms.
I think that was the whole point.
Others will do the same in their own time and on their own terms.
I think that was the whole point.
Sorry [MENTION=564]acd[/MENTION] I guess I missed and misunderstood your point.
Unfortunately its still one the things Im defensive over but Im trying not to be. I just got sick of people telling me I should be more angry and pissed off. It upsets me when people think im being ignorant and naive because I 'should' be acting more cynical and bitter after some of the things that have happened.
But I completely agree with you that people need to take their own time and path to heal themselves, and they shouldnt have pressure put on them to do so within a time constraint
I have to agree with [MENTION=564]acd[/MENTION]
I've been sitting and thinking on this for the last two days because 1. I quite like you [MENTION=4956]Asarya[/MENTION] and I didn't want to come off like I was attacking you and 2. I think enough people didn't like me so much after the initial posts
I had a feeling Asarya had experience with this from her posting, because she doesn't strike me as the kind of person who would be so callous or unsympathetic. I hear what you're saying. I really do. But I do disagree. I was abused as a child, and as I get older, more and more friends come out of the woodwork. Off the top of my head I can think of 6 or 7 who have confided in me. Myself included, out of those 7 or 8 of us a lot of us have had very very different reactions. Some of of the people I'm thinking of had some very serious life long problems as a result. Some of it depended on the extent of the abuse, the time period, who the abuser was.
One day, I woke up and I thought "I don't want to be angry anymore, I want to get over this...I want to forgive". That was all well and good, but what I've learned over the yeas is that forgiveness is not necessarily a straight forward business. Sometimes real forgiveness means having to choose forgiveness for the same situation over and over and over. Sometimes I think its easier for people who clearly remember their abusers or what happened to them. For al ot of people, their subconcious buries it and slowly over years and years its something that comes back. I don't remember most of it, I don't even properly remember who my abusers were....similiar to many people in (our) situations, and there are periods were depression and anger and bitterness seep back in.
Getting over something like this is such a long and difficult process, there is no should or ought. It's so highly personal that the only right way to do it is whatever gets you through. I see what you are saying Asarya, and I really hope you do not take this the wrong way, as its not meant badly, but if you are to help someone through, the best thing to do is just listen and let them feel....feel however they feel and say whatever the hell they want. Don't try and direct them, the rest will come in time, and if you try and introduce it yourself or too soon, you might just turn someone off.
As for abusers, it's all well and good to say forgiveness and letting people get on with their lives. I know this was poo pooed when another posted said it, but I can't help think of the addict or the alcoholic. Stick one of them having a hard time in front of their drug of choice long enough, and theirs bound to be a slip. For abusers, although its definitely an illness theres not always a lot of control there. Again, I don't think we need to hate these people, but I think protecting their potential victims is more important than making an abuser feel better. Consider it a tough love kind of treatment.
I've been sitting and thinking on this for the last two days because 1. I quite like you [MENTION=4956]Asarya[/MENTION] and I didn't want to come off like I was attacking you and 2. I think enough people didn't like me so much after the initial posts
I had a feeling Asarya had experience with this from her posting, because she doesn't strike me as the kind of person who would be so callous or unsympathetic. I hear what you're saying. I really do. But I do disagree. I was abused as a child, and as I get older, more and more friends come out of the woodwork. Off the top of my head I can think of 6 or 7 who have confided in me. Myself included, out of those 7 or 8 of us a lot of us have had very very different reactions. Some of of the people I'm thinking of had some very serious life long problems as a result. Some of it depended on the extent of the abuse, the time period, who the abuser was.
One day, I woke up and I thought "I don't want to be angry anymore, I want to get over this...I want to forgive". That was all well and good, but what I've learned over the yeas is that forgiveness is not necessarily a straight forward business. Sometimes real forgiveness means having to choose forgiveness for the same situation over and over and over. Sometimes I think its easier for people who clearly remember their abusers or what happened to them. For al ot of people, their subconcious buries it and slowly over years and years its something that comes back. I don't remember most of it, I don't even properly remember who my abusers were....similiar to many people in (our) situations, and there are periods were depression and anger and bitterness seep back in.
Getting over something like this is such a long and difficult process, there is no should or ought. It's so highly personal that the only right way to do it is whatever gets you through. I see what you are saying Asarya, and I really hope you do not take this the wrong way, as its not meant badly, but if you are to help someone through, the best thing to do is just listen and let them feel....feel however they feel and say whatever the hell they want. Don't try and direct them, the rest will come in time, and if you try and introduce it yourself or too soon, you might just turn someone off.
As for abusers, it's all well and good to say forgiveness and letting people get on with their lives. I know this was poo pooed when another posted said it, but I can't help think of the addict or the alcoholic. Stick one of them having a hard time in front of their drug of choice long enough, and theirs bound to be a slip. For abusers, although its definitely an illness theres not always a lot of control there. Again, I don't think we need to hate these people, but I think protecting their potential victims is more important than making an abuser feel better. Consider it a tough love kind of treatment.
Hey [MENTION=5297]Neverwhere[/MENTION],
I havent interacted with you much but you come across as a very interesting vibrant person and I like you a lot. I especaily like how youve just made yourself at home here-thats awesome- and I hope i get to know you better.
I appreciate you sharing your experience and I get where you are coming from. I also get that my approach to this is very unconventional. I appreciate yours and others imput at trying to get me to see a different perspective. There is still a lot of stuff to think about and my beliefs and ideas about things are never set. Please dont worry about offending me. I do enjoy learning and being challenged, lest I ever become 'stuck' in my thinking. Its great that we can communicate about these things. Where else are we going to have that luxury to to this except on a weird infjish forum like this one?
i made a very conscious decision earlier this year to live my life in a certain way, I feel that there is always a dichotomy between love and fear, and I want to choose love whever possible. This is more a spiritual and philosphical personal journey than anything else. I think its practical but most people dont and thats fine.
i think we can agree to disagree amicably. I respect that your position is different to mine and I dont think its necessary that people agree, only that they are willing to communicate. There is nothing more important than that.
I havent interacted with you much but you come across as a very interesting vibrant person and I like you a lot. I especaily like how youve just made yourself at home here-thats awesome- and I hope i get to know you better.
I appreciate you sharing your experience and I get where you are coming from. I also get that my approach to this is very unconventional. I appreciate yours and others imput at trying to get me to see a different perspective. There is still a lot of stuff to think about and my beliefs and ideas about things are never set. Please dont worry about offending me. I do enjoy learning and being challenged, lest I ever become 'stuck' in my thinking. Its great that we can communicate about these things. Where else are we going to have that luxury to to this except on a weird infjish forum like this one?
i made a very conscious decision earlier this year to live my life in a certain way, I feel that there is always a dichotomy between love and fear, and I want to choose love whever possible. This is more a spiritual and philosphical personal journey than anything else. I think its practical but most people dont and thats fine.
i think we can agree to disagree amicably. I respect that your position is different to mine and I dont think its necessary that people agree, only that they are willing to communicate. There is nothing more important than that.
I think there are things some people can never let go of, and that have affected them in such a deep way that they have become a part of who they are. If forgiveness is the path that someone needs to take for their own healing, then all the more power to them. I wouldn't say that not being able to forgive someone is a sign of weakness. I was sexually assaulted. I have come to terms with it. I have realized why the person acted the way they did. I hold no hate in my heart for myself, or even for them, but I cannot forgive them for what they did. It happened, it sucked, I've healed, but they still decided to act the way they did time and time again. I'm not holding on to anything, nor am I bitter. I accept what happened because there is nothing I can do to change it. What I do not accept, and refuse to accept, is that they decided to do it as do so many people around the world.
I know you weren't directing anything at me (and I'm not offended by your post at all), but forgiveness simply is not the path for everyone. Not forgiving doesn't mean one is holding on to the past, the pain, the resentment, the anger, or the suffering. To each their own. What ever path it takes to heal for each individual is up for them to decide. Every experience and healing process is subjective.
I agree with both [MENTION=4956]Asarya[/MENTION] and [MENTION=5297]Neverwhere[/MENTION]
forgiveness comes after you're done feeling everything but that is different for each person. You can tell someone a million times to let something go but sometimes we don't know we are even still holding on to stuff.
forgiveness comes after you're done feeling everything but that is different for each person. You can tell someone a million times to let something go but sometimes we don't know we are even still holding on to stuff.
Thank you. That makes sense.
How do you personally define forgiveness?
I think that if someone is at the point that they are no longer holding on to the past, and feeling the resentment, the anger, or the suffering, then they have reached the stage where they have healed and forgiven. There may always be pain, I think, but it doesnt have to hurt in the same way. For me, forgiving someone doesnt mean excusing them. Everyone has to be accountable for their actions, whatever the reason, because that is the only way we can learn