ISTP infidelity on INFJ spouse...HELP!

[Julia]

Your thread is quite moving, and there have been well thought out and meaningful responses.

What struck me in reading through it is the issue of trust and your need to look at phone records and such. I would feel the same way. It is true that it isn't a sustainable way of dealing with it and at some point the trust will need to be strong enough again to not have to check up on her. At the root of that desire to snoop might be a need to work out a better preventative system, but that particular approach won't be sustainable. A counselor might be able to provide specific helps, but there are ways to work out preventative communication. Whatever was in place that allowed this to occur the first time you want to address. People are flawed and can have times when they are especially vulnerable to need validation and can choose destructive methods like affairs to try to get it. If a kind of honesty and acceptance can be established in a relationship where it is safe for a partner to say something like, "I have been struggling with negative feelings, and there is someone at work who I feel too attached towards, or who is hitting on me and I find it is filling a need, etc." Involving your partner in such a struggle at the beginning can go a long way to finding the strength to maintain boundaries. That way the two people can work it out together rather than one person becoming increasingly isolated by the lies and fear of retribution and guilt.

 

[Rogue]

I am SO sorry to hear that this happened to you.

(Disclaimer: I'm a novice at MBTI and no kind of therapist, but I would like to help)

I know kids and careers can be so hard on relationships, simply spending more time together is a positive first step.

I do not know how you can rebuild that trust once she's shattered it. I admire you for even trying; obviously she will always be the mother of your children so you should try but it is a hard, hard thing. You've got my sympathy.

Hearing (reading) you say you need to scale back your intensity and you fear she will be like "Just get over it already!" makes me think she doesn't place much importance on your feelings and comfort. I think she is the one who needs to be kissing your ass 24/7, not the other way around. You say this only happened a few weeks ago? Way too fresh wounds.

Maybe you should take a few steps back; not to "light her fire" but to gain a little perspective and focus on yourself a bit. Can you take your kids on a vacation or something? Without her? Let her have that space if she wants it. And as far as expecting so much from her, I think you are entitled to expect fidelity. Presumably she promised it.

I don't know how an ISTP woman would see this or what the official psychologist line would be, this is my real and unprofessional opinion. And again I am so sorry that happened, you sound really nice and you deserver much, much better.

P.S. I just re-read my post and realized that I told you spending more time together was a good idea and then told you to take your kids on a vacation without her. Ignore me, I know nothing. You have my sympathy man.

In all of my dealings with ISTJ's they don't like being reminded that they are in the wrong. It was her choice from the day she started it, and all of our actions have consequences. If you need to check records for a year, then that is what you need to do. I would try to focus on yourself when you are having that overwhelming, gripping feeling in your gut. It can steal your life if you don't focus on something positive.

Oh. Well, she needs to get over that. Eventually you'll stop needing to check up on her. That's what she wants, right?

I would have dumped him immediately after he didn't perform those actions.
The onus is on the one in the wrong to rectify matters.

For sure!!

 

[vegaSagev]

Sex does not equate... love, to an ISTP. It is more of a physical sensation. It would be over, if the ISTP shared their secret side of "thought" with another person.

Yes, infidenlity looks to be a complete violation of the INFJ's code of ethic's with "Insincerity, Betrayal, or Lack of Integrity." But, the ISTP may not have realized this at all.... because sex has nothing to do with feelings to them, it is more of an act.

The ISTP may have thought in line with their own way of thinking. And she was not insincere: she did end it and was willing to show it with action. She was not in Betrayal: she did not share things of her husband's secret thoughts. Lastly, she did not show a lack of Integrity: she did admit exactly what she did.

The ISTP's form of love would be in "sharing their secret self"...thoughts, wishes and aspirations.

Perhaps, she was "only responding" to her own form of ISTP stressors: Constaint, Lack of Impact and Boredom. Which had nothing to do with the love of her husband, only the fact that some risk-taking actions cured her stressors.

This may sound crazy to other INFJ's. But it is the truth... as I am myself an INFJ whom is married to an ISTP male for around 17 years now. And I could completely forgive an affair because it is not my husbands definition of love. Now, it would be completely different if he had shared his "secret self" with another woman. Because that is the ISTP's form of love and that would cross the line for both of us.

Hope this may help in some way.

Water, this is excellent. I do feel like I crave the secret self. She writes little journal entries in her planner (that I have to force myself not to read) and I wish she would share them with me. She only does when she is mad, and VERY rarely. I know she has those quiet thoughts, I just need the feedback.

Also, I am fascinated by the ISTP stressors and and INFJ "code of ethics" you described above. Where can I read more about that?

 

[vegaSagev]

In all of my dealings with ISTJ's they don't like being reminded that they are in the wrong. It was her choice from the day she started it, and all of our actions have consequences. If you need to check records for a year, then that is what you need to do. I would try to focus on yourself when you are having that overwhelming, gripping feeling in your gut. It can steal your life if you don't focus on something positive.

So good, Rogue. Thank you. She says I am always looking for the lie and yet I see it as looking for truth. When I see her phone log and its mostly me or someone else I know calling or texting, I feel better. I haven't done that nearly as much lately and she said recently I could check anytime I wanted. That automatically made me not want to check as much. I think it helps just knowing she understands that.

When you say focus on yourself, what kind of thing do you mean? I have picked up my guitar and have done some odd jobs at home that I have been putting off. What else can I do? I do notice that focusing (internally) on what is right with her and what I love about her helps.

 

[Entyqua]

...I am an INFJ married to an INTJ/P (He switches off) Last year, my husband and I separated. As an INFJ I couldn't take his non-committal nonchalance about our relationship. I longed to feel well and truely loved, not used when he needed me. I know now that is not what he was going for, but its how i felt. I was almost unfaithful to him, because I was getting the desired attention from a co-worker.

My point is, You have to come to an understanding between you. He understands to a point that I need the expression of love frequently, while I have to understand that the action, to him, is illogical. He is here I should just know that he loves me.

I dont know if that helps, Im not too great at putting these types of things into words...

 

[vegaSagev]

My point is, You have to come to an understanding between you. He understands to a point that I need the expression of love frequently, while I have to understand that the action, to him, is illogical. He is here I should just know that he loves me.

Good stuff, Entyqua. I have often tried to share my type description and Love Languages. I think she knows, it's just unnatural for her. I also agree that she doesn't INTEND to be distant and aloof, but that's just how I perceive it. When we were first married, she shared something I need to keep in mind. She talked about how Picasso and Monet have two very different styles and that neither is better or worse, they are just different. We have occasionally used that as a way to say to one another, "I have no idea what you are doing and why you do things THAT way, but I will allow you to be you." She calls me Picasso and I call her Monet. I MUST keep this in mind.

 

[GaiaGraha]

First let me say that I respect you for coming to the forum about this. I know that it can feel shameful to talk about this kind of situation, but reaching out for help and guidance and just expressing yourself are all very good things.

OK:

1)
I always wish it wasn't true, but it seems like it is a lot that the more love you give, the less needy they are, and the less love you give and more aloof you are, the more needy they get. I suppose you could experiment with trying not to care so much and making sure you don't fawn over her, and then, perhaps, she will start fawning over you. But I would make sure to be somewhat subtle, so she doesn't suspect you doing it on purpose or anything.
And, after all, shouldn't she be the one trying to be easy on you? I mean, I know you say she was driven to cheat because of your high expectations but...honestly there is no excuse for cheating. That's is why it's called "cheating"- because it is NEVER fair game. She SHOULD have brought her feelings to you, regardless of how much she dislikes talking about these types of things.
Although! I advise you cut it out with all that pressuring of gender roles. She is who she is, just because she "sucks" at being a traditional housewife/mother/etc does NOT give you the right to criticize her or try to make her be what she isn't. You knew who she was when you married her, if you wanted a more traditional woman, you should have found one.

2)
Maybe she temporarily lost the excitement, and perhaps not being something more unattainable might help.
But honestly, I don't think that you can "make" someone fall in love with you. So I hope she will fall back in love or that she was just confused.

3)
I can completely understand that "need" to check up on things like email, phone records, etc. When my ESTP ex who I was with for over 3 years cheated on me, I wanted and NEEDED to know every detail. I would check his myspace, his email, his text messages, his phone calls...
However, he did NOT have the decency to tell me what he was doing. I had to find out from someone else who knew and couldn't take seeing the deceit any longer.
For a while I demanded that he show me, to prove to me. But then he eventually thought it was invading his space.
The truth is, it WAS invading his space, but I was too wrapped up in needing to know to see that this was not the answer. Yes, the trust was broken, completely. But checking up your significant other doesn't solve the problem, it only creates a false sense of trust- are you going to check her calls and emails for the rest of your life? Or will checking for a year seal the deal of trust? I don't think so.
It IS a difficult situation. How can she prove her trust to you? Will it ever be enough? I think you should feel lucky that she had the integrity to tell you the truth, and she went through a polygraph test as well. I completely understand the worry of a repeat, trust me. But if you cannot let it go and start trusting her without the need to check up on her, then you cannot be in this relationship. Just know that it takes time to trust, and you can rebuild it if you allow yourself to do so and she does the same.

4)
Sounds like you have a lot of pent-up emotion about the whole situation. You can't be expected to just let go of everything without expressing all of that pain, anger and fear. You seek therapy with a psychologist, counselor or a gestalt group so that you can properly express those feelings. (I would recommend a gestalt group that facilitates release work.) Only when you have expressed those feelings will you be able to let it go and move on. It doesn't mean that you will forget the whole thing, but it means that you will be able to get through the day without it hanging over you like a dark cloud, you will be able to think and talk about it without feeling sick, and you will be able to be free from it taking hold of you and creating repetitive and unhealthy coping behaviors.

5)
Maybe do some things you used to do when you first fell in love. Or maybe start a new activity together where you can work together. Like a team sport where you can be on the same team. Or perhaps if she has any passions...? I dunno. Or maybe you guys can find a place where you can learn to do ceramics and throw on a wheel- making cups and bowls together is fun and fantastically messy. lol
Oh and another activity may be marriage counseling, if you aren't already doing that.


I hope that helps, and I wish you the best in re-forging a healthy, loving, and trustworthy marriage.

 

[NeverAmI]

If I were in your situation and not in an emotionally wrecked stage (As I would be in your situation) I would demand she tell me EVERYTHING (not sexual details, but the motivations she had, the reasons she let it happen, how she thought the pain she would put on you was worth the pleasure she would experience)

Perhaps she simply didn't think about the sheer amount of pain she would put you through, hard for anyone like you and I to comprehend! Unfortunately, She needs to know the amount of pain it has caused you. She also needs to show that she will take that into account the next time a similar opportunity presents itself, AS IT WILL!

She needs to show she is capable of learning from her mistakes. If she can do this, keep her. If she can't do it then determine whether your children will have a better life with you two together and miserable vs you two separated and potentially happy.

Next, she needs to determine why she is not happy in the current situation. Is she not happy with herself? Is she not happy with you? She needs to address this herself, not you. But you do need to let her know that she needs to do this if she dedicated to your relationship.

First post, but I have been reading these for a long time. I love this forum, glad I finally found something like this. I am a huge fan of typology and have studied it for years. I am in a crisis right now and need some perspective.

I am a 34 y.o. INFJ male. I am a therapist doing mentalhealth, marriage and family therapy. She is a 30 yr. old ISTP. We have been married for 10 years (3 kids) and a few weeks ago she told me she loved me but wasn't "in" love with me. The next day, after I pressed her she told me she had an affair with a guy at work. She had already ended the relationship and hadn't spoken with him for 2 weeks at that point. It basically involved making out, oral sex, and kind of a teenage type of "getting it on."
They never went on dates or went to eachother's homes, but always just at work. They texted a lot, talked on the phone some, and flirty stuff went too far. He was 22.

So, she and I are trying to work it out. I want to stay with her and she says the same, but out personalities, of course, come into play and I need some help about how to approach this.

I immediately began drinking, smoking pot, using tobacco again, stormed around in anger sometimes, but we have had some sweet dates and times
together talking. I have stopped doing those things as I don't normally drink and all of that. I just didn't know what to do with the sick feeling inside.

As an INFJ, I want to talk endlessly about the feelings involved, she of course doesn't, although she tries. I have become Magnum P.I., looking
through phone records and analyzing what times of day they texted, and talked, etc. I had her get a polygraph, which she passed. I think she has told me everything and this has never happened before.

So, I think what happened is she felt like a failure as a mother and wife, I have such high expectations she felt she would never cut it and I think this whole little affair thing was exciting and she enjoyed feeling so desired by this punk ass guy.

Here are some specific questions for you ISTPs and INFJs (or anyone else who can help)

1. I have been showing her as much love as I can, like when we were dating, but I'm not sure if that is such a good thing. I have been pretty easy on her for the most part, but wonder if I should (force myself) to be more distant and aloof. Kind of the reverse psychology idea. If I am head over heels, will that make her annoyed and not interested in me?

2. If she feels still she is not all that "in" love with me, how do I foster that? We've been having sex like crazy and I know she enjoys that, but how can I detach some and/or make her crave being with me like I do her? Or will she just never be like that?

3. I am still checking her phone and email, which she despises. I know ISTPs need space, but she doesn't understand my need to check on those things. Haven't found anything concerning, so it actually helps me feel more secure knowing who she is talking to. I feel compelled to do that, but know it may not help things because she sees it as controlling her.

4. She says this guy is gone from her mind (it only lasted a month) and that she only thinks of him when I bring it up. She says she wants us to move forward, and I do too, but daily I have this little storm cloud come over me with fear and darkness. She says I can call her when I am feeling down, but I am afraid to. I am afraid she will just be like, "Get over it already!"

5. We are trying to do some more fun thing together. She needs quality time and we are being more active and going out more. What ideas do you have about how I can light her fire?

I know this is long, I just need some perspective from real people. I have been reading these profiles over and over. I am trying to see that she is just different from me and that's okay. I know I need to scale back my F intensity a lot and not expect so much from her. I want to develop my Thinking and Sensing functions more.

Any insight MUCH appreciated. Thank you for this great forum!!!

 

[water]

Water, this is excellent. I do feel like I crave the secret self. She writes little journal entries in her planner (that I have to force myself not to read) and I wish she would share them with me. She only does when she is mad, and VERY rarely. I know she has those quiet thoughts, I just need the feedback.

Also, I am fascinated by the ISTP stressors and and INFJ "code of ethics" you described above. Where can I read more about that?

Here are two:
http://www.archivists.org.au/events/conf99/pederson.html


Artisans
Sensate Perceivers

Core Needs :
Freedom to Act on Needs of the Moment
Ability to Make an Impact

Strengths :
Troubleshooting, responding to crises well and flexibly, negotiating

Likes :
Emergencies and pressures. Solving practical problems, perhaps in tense, high-risk environment. Variety. A lot going on.

Dislikes:
Not much happening. Monotony. Unclear or no information. Lack of freedom. Details, routine, long-range planning.

Stressors:
Constraint
Lack of Impact
Boredom

When Stressed:
Retaliates
Becomes Rebellious and is Restricted


http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/TypeSixOverview.asp

"Sixes are among the most puzzling of the nine personality types because they are reactive, fluctuating from one state to another—usually the virtual opposite—very quickly. Sixes can be baffling and frustrating because their emotional states and attitudes can be so contradictory: they can be engaging and funny, then cranky and negative; they can be decisive and self-assertive, then, almost in the next moment, indecisive and self-doubting. While they seek the approval of those who are important to them, they resist being in a position of inferiority. They may be obedient, and then openly disobedient, intentionally deviating from what the authority has told them to do. As a result, because Sixes are the most contradictory of the personality types, they are one of the most difficult to understand." - Sound Familiar?

I know you still love her, and she loves you. So I will fight for you both and wish you the very best! - Hope you may find them useful.

 

[water]

Water, this is excellent. I do feel like I crave the secret self. She writes little journal entries in her planner (that I have to force myself not to read) and I wish she would share them with me. She only does when she is mad, and VERY rarely. I know she has those quiet thoughts, I just need the feedback.

Also, I am fascinated by the ISTP stressors and and INFJ "code of ethics" you described above. Where can I read more about that?

Oh, and about the "secret self".... honestly, that comes in bits and pieces, when they are made to feel "safe enough" to share. When my husband finally knew that I was not out to judge.... only to understand. He started to share little by little, and when he saw that it did not get him into any form of trouble,....no judgments, he now shares more than I want to know at times. (LOL) But, I continue to be honored that he trusts me that much. As it is his form of love.

Help this may help.

 

[vegaSagev]

Update:

So, It's been about 8 weeks since she told me what happened. In the past week I have been almost completely without any anxiety. I have taken your advice to focus on myself and my own journey, and it works. I am becoming more confident, losing weight, and trying to find peace independent of her. We've both had a couple of great sessions with our counselor (separately). We have been on some good dates, and when there is a lull and it's a quiet night, we have enjoyed some comfortable silence.

I am feeling very hopeful about our future. I can't say what she will or will not be like in the future, I just know now what I need to do. The less I "need" her, the more she seems to want me. She seems like she isn't as depressed and I am definitely not as anxious. I was about to try to get a prescription for Xanax or Valium, but I realized all of that anxiety was gone and cancelled the appt. My counselor encouraged me to find the light inside me and not wait around for her to light me up, which was exactly what I needed to hear.

The one thing that was very strange is I found this book http://www.amazon.com/dp/0316013587/?tag=infjs-20 that she had checked out from the library. She had a bookmark in it about halfway through it and while she was asleep I read a good deal of what she had read. It's like a Sex and the City type of story where people are just having affairs, random sex and was very disturbing to me that she would find this entertaining at a time like this. I asked her about it, calmly, and she said she stopped reading it because it was not what she thought it was. She was hoping to find the "secrets to Happiness" as the title suggested, but became uncomfortable with it herself. I was a little hurt because the thirty-something character had a 22 year-old boy-toy and it was very similar to what she did to me. We ended that short conversation with a hug.

I also traveled out of state for my job and spent the night in a hotel room. I had about one hour of sadness and fear, not because I thought she was messing around but because it was when I was gone before that she had long phone calls with this guy and I was taken back to that pain for about an hour.

So, things are looking pretty good. Her passport came in the mail today and we are planning a cool Halloween thing with our kids. She loves Halloween and I am always embarrassed to dress up, but I know she loves it. I am trying to sacrifice some of my unmet needs and instead focus on hers. My pride tells me that is the wrong approach, but something more noble inside me tells me its 1) the only way to peace and 2) I need to love her so she never feels empty again. I am less clingy and needy and have picked up my guitar again. I am trying to love me more as well.

I guess unless there are more crazy new developments, this may be about it for this thread, but I sure appreciate all of your insights. You anonymous strangers have been my best friends through this and may you all have the abundant support and love you have shown me. Now, I will hope to be a contributor on this site and not merely a consumer. Thanks again.

 

[Solar Empath]

You are a better man than I am. I don't think I could make up and let the other person off the hook so fast unless I had cheated or abused her. I am humbled.

 

[sumone]

Sounds like you are going to come out of this stronger. Way to go!

 

[Ria]

I wish you well, and look forward to your further posts... whatever form they may take.

Best of luck!

(and well done)

 

[entity]

Am going through it too...

I considered getting stoned and listening to MY music, too, but also realised that's futile. I'm sorry I haven't read all the threads, but just wanted to say that I came on here wondering if it was at all possible to stay in my relationship, as I am an idealist and it feels like he's broken my soul by lying to me. I still haven't come to a decision but I do realise this: You (and me!) need to look after yourself and develop yourself and your own interests to be the best that YOU can be. This is a time where you're allowed to look inside yourself and pursue interests that make you more fulfilled. The bonus is that she will then find you very desirable... an independant, interesting, strong man, taking what he can from life and living it. But also, because you are filling up your own tank, you have more strength to look at the relationship from a little more distance and discover what YOU need from it. She is the one who screwed up, just as my partner screwed up. I am still furious (the anger sometimes scares me) and it's six months on, but life is ticking by and it's not being lived. Focus on finding yourself something aptly distracting and she will also be intrigued - although remember it's not for her benefit.
I hope this helps; it was suggested to me.

 

[entity]

Oops!

I'm sorry I didn't read to the end before posting that last comment or I would have discovered that you have some sort of closure.
Great, and good luck.

 

[myst]

good luck to you too entity

 

[sumone]

I hope everything is going well for you.

 

[entity]

Next morning... I'm just wondering (if anyone is still reading this thread!) whether other INFJs who've had an experience like this, ie their partner has been unfaithful, believes there can be a future for the relationship when that ethical ideal of loyalty has been quashed??
I am in what I had considered to be a permanent relationship and we have two little boys. The problem is not so much that he had sex with another woman early on in our relationship (altho that still eats at me like crazy) but more so that he lied to me about it continually, and basically told me I was imagining things. I understand that he recognised it was a mistake, a long time ago (4 years) and has a lot to lose, but lying to me and making me doubt my intuition for such a long period of time has done the biggest damage as it's been done to me, my essence. He works with this woman: she has been rude to me (by completely ignoring me) over the years yet he maintained a friendly (too-friendly in my opinion) relationship with her and even justified her rudeness to me as shyness. Anyway, there's more but I won't bore you with the details... I basically had to put a [metaphorical] gun to his head before he confesssed, 6 months ago. We saw a counsellor, drew up a plan.
He recently breached that plan by maintaining contact with the woman when he said he would cut it all, he says he had to keep communicating with her for working purposes but she no longer works for him so that's another lie AND a breach to our agreement (as were the texts and emails and the pants-shopping outing...).
I know this sounds very bad but the problem is we have two young boys, neither yet in pre-school. They adore their dad. He desperately wants to change and is doing his utmost but I'm not convinced of his sincerity - I think it's to keep his boys - and I can feel that awful INFJ tendancy to write him off threatening to overwhelm me.
Has anyone else been here?? Remember the children - their wellbeing is most important to me. Also, we don't fight so aside from a subdued mood in the home, the boys are not being subjected to difficulties.

 

[Solar Empath]

Next morning... I'm just wondering (if anyone is still reading this thread!) whether other INFJs who've had an experience like this, ie their partner has been unfaithful, believes there can be a future for the relationship when that ethical ideal of loyalty has been quashed??
I am in what I had considered to be a permanent relationship and we have two little boys. The problem is not so much that he had sex with another woman early on in our relationship (altho that still eats at me like crazy) but more so that he lied to me about it continually, and basically told me I was imagining things. I understand that he recognised it was a mistake, a long time ago (4 years) and has a lot to lose, but lying to me and making me doubt my intuition for such a long period of time has done the biggest damage as it's been done to me, my essence. He works with this woman: she has been rude to me (by completely ignoring me) over the years yet he maintained a friendly (too-friendly in my opinion) relationship with her and even justified her rudeness to me as shyness. Anyway, there's more but I won't bore you with the details... I basically had to put a [metaphorical] gun to his head before he confesssed, 6 months ago. We saw a counsellor, drew up a plan.
He recently breached that plan by maintaining contact with the woman when he said he would cut it all, he says he had to keep communicating with her for working purposes but she no longer works for him so that's another lie AND a breach to our agreement (as were the texts and emails and the pants-shopping outing...).
I know this sounds very bad but the problem is we have two young boys, neither yet in pre-school. They adore their dad. He desperately wants to change and is doing his utmost but I'm not convinced of his sincerity - I think it's to keep his boys - and I can feel that awful INFJ tendancy to write him off threatening to overwhelm me.
Has anyone else been here?? Remember the children - their wellbeing is most important to me. Also, we don't fight so aside from a subdued mood in the home, the boys are not being subjected to difficulties.

Only you can decide if you want to try. But as someone who has been cheated on: trust your feelings. If you can't let it go right now, then don't. If he expects you to just 'get over it' in such a short time, then he isn't really willing to pay the price for his actions.