ISTJs and ESTJs
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- Nov 12, 2008
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I am good friends with two ISTJ's. I actually really like that personality type. I am not close with any ESTJ's, but I can actually work with them rather well in enough cases to say I don't really dislike them. It's the NP's I have the majority of issues with and even then it is case-by-case.
I have recently realized that one of my ISTP friends is actually an ISTJ. There is a lot of mistyping between ISTPs and ISTJs it seems. I'd say about half of my ISTP friends test J, but it is really clear that they're ISTPs and the ones I've gotten to take the cognitive function test prove this pretty handily. Apparently, this friend was an ISTJ that tested P.
All that to say, I get along with my ISTJs pretty well. The only clashes come when they can't adapt to a new concept or a change in subject, and I have to lay things out for them in a point for point manner. That's annoying. They'll frequently refute something that makes perfect sense because they can't understand it. And I often feel like I'm dealing with a child when I have to give a point by point explanation of something that should just make sense. The funny part is, they're prone to accusing people of being immature (these two, at least), and seem to want to enjoy pointing it out when people aren't as intelligent as they are (often showing how ignorant they actually are when they do this). Other than this, we tend to get along pretty well, and though there are annoyances on both parts, there are rarely clashes, and almost never 'battles'.
ESTJs on the other hand, make me insane with their constant demanding and delegating. These might be the pushiest people on the planet, and they never shut up. I could deal with someone who had something pleasant to say, but with ESTJs, it's almost always an edict or attempt to make themselves feel superior. It's like the ISTJ need to elevate themselves on crack. To make matters worse, I'm not one to budge when pushed when I know I'm right, and this makes them flip out. Insubordination is apparently one of their peeves, yet ESTJs frequently assume people are subordinate who are clearly not. Yeah, these people by and large make me nuts and I can only handle them when they are very well developed and in small doses.
All that to say, I get along with my ISTJs pretty well. The only clashes come when they can't adapt to a new concept or a change in subject, and I have to lay things out for them in a point for point manner. That's annoying. They'll frequently refute something that makes perfect sense because they can't understand it. And I often feel like I'm dealing with a child when I have to give a point by point explanation of something that should just make sense. The funny part is, they're prone to accusing people of being immature (these two, at least), and seem to want to enjoy pointing it out when people aren't as intelligent as they are (often showing how ignorant they actually are when they do this). Other than this, we tend to get along pretty well, and though there are annoyances on both parts, there are rarely clashes, and almost never 'battles'.
ESTJs on the other hand, make me insane with their constant demanding and delegating. These might be the pushiest people on the planet, and they never shut up. I could deal with someone who had something pleasant to say, but with ESTJs, it's almost always an edict or attempt to make themselves feel superior. It's like the ISTJ need to elevate themselves on crack. To make matters worse, I'm not one to budge when pushed when I know I'm right, and this makes them flip out. Insubordination is apparently one of their peeves, yet ESTJs frequently assume people are subordinate who are clearly not. Yeah, these people by and large make me nuts and I can only handle them when they are very well developed and in small doses.
My best friend tests ISTJ through and through. A lot of times I have to adjust myself to cater to his own expectations. My father is also ISTJ so I have had a lot of experience with what works and what doesn't. I have to hold a lot of stuff back around them. Then again, I have to do that with a lot of people.
My former roommate is an ESTJ. He is a master of getting other people to do what he wants and he pretty much pisses everyone off. In his own eyes, he can do no wrong. I am not stereotyping, just being descriptive of the one case of ESTJ that I know well.
My former roommate is an ESTJ. He is a master of getting other people to do what he wants and he pretty much pisses everyone off. In his own eyes, he can do no wrong. I am not stereotyping, just being descriptive of the one case of ESTJ that I know well.
ISTJ's as a whole are ok, they come across as stiff to me and not very flexible in their thinking. They seem to lack empathy and understanding.
ESTJ's on the other hand from my personal experience, are blunt and down right rude. If they think you are wrong about something you're going down, preferably in front of the general public.
However I was having the same discussion with an ESTJ and this was her reply to me (I was pleasantly surprised)
"I think it has to do more with the Extroverts and not the S/N or F/T dicotomy. Extroverts tend to be more thinking outside with an outside voice and introverts keep more to themselves -speaking with an inside voice or reflecting on things. Extroverts also Do more, introverts think more."
From that response Its got me thinking that E and I are definitely the front man when It comes to personality clashes, over S and N.
ESTJ's on the other hand from my personal experience, are blunt and down right rude. If they think you are wrong about something you're going down, preferably in front of the general public.
However I was having the same discussion with an ESTJ and this was her reply to me (I was pleasantly surprised)
"I think it has to do more with the Extroverts and not the S/N or F/T dicotomy. Extroverts tend to be more thinking outside with an outside voice and introverts keep more to themselves -speaking with an inside voice or reflecting on things. Extroverts also Do more, introverts think more."
From that response Its got me thinking that E and I are definitely the front man when It comes to personality clashes, over S and N.
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Ti and Te are definitely very different processes. Ti and Te interact with the environment (judge) differently.
Si, Se, Ni, and Ne all have different inspirations of what to discuss and how to discuss it. Ti, Te, Fe, and Fi are the responders, they shape the path of existing topics.
Ti is WAY more passive (as observed by others) than Te. Analyzing the environment vs sequencing the environment. You see that with pretty much any IT vs ET.
- Nov 12, 2008
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ISTJ: Si>Te>Fi>Ne
ESTJ Te>Si>Ne>Fi
Both use Te. However I do understand what you are saying. Secondary Te isn't very loud, and won't speak unless it gets the greenlight from Si or Ni.
I have 2 ISTJ friends, but both are completely different. One usually speaks in monotone and barely has any emotion in his face or actions other than being down. He also doesn't like it when I hug him, and is all manner of awkward. he's a good boy though and always fulfils his duties.
The other one though, will still fulfil duties but is a really professional slack-off and is always looking for ways to misbehave. He has spent his whole life trying to be an irl Bart Simpson (not exactly him, just making a picture for you). Also very unlike the other ISTJ, he's very emotive and love huggles. He also pretty much raised his 3 younger brothers himself. He's fun and nutty but never awkward. I strongly suspect a mistake in either the J or the T.
What do you guys think? Mistyping on the second guy or just one of the many faces of an ISTJ?
The other one though, will still fulfil duties but is a really professional slack-off and is always looking for ways to misbehave. He has spent his whole life trying to be an irl Bart Simpson (not exactly him, just making a picture for you). Also very unlike the other ISTJ, he's very emotive and love huggles. He also pretty much raised his 3 younger brothers himself. He's fun and nutty but never awkward. I strongly suspect a mistake in either the J or the T.
What do you guys think? Mistyping on the second guy or just one of the many faces of an ISTJ?
My mum is an ESTJ and my dad an ISTJ. And its true that ISTJs are a tiny bit easier to get along with than ESTJs. My mum is constantly organizing and demanding things that have to be done. She is super annoying about this, and she is always right of course, she cant do wrong *rolls eyes at her* My dad on the other hand, while being very similar to her and also likeing to criticize a lot.. he is just not as loud about it all and you can actually reason with him. We had a conversation about me forseeing something in the future and he really made an effort to understand my point of view. Maybe its his Fi thats better devolped than my mums plus the less dominant Te. Dominant Te is awful, it just stumps all over the place.
One of my best friends is a ISTJ. He's very flexible in other's views but very traditional, and almost punishes himself for not being able to uphold his knightly ideals so much that he almost hates himself. He's a great person and very gentle, but his lack of ability to process his own emotions and frustration about not even trying to approach the girls he likes gets annoying because I know (emotionally and psychologically) what is holding him back.
My dad's an ESTJ. Not a good relationship. Demands order, calls attention to himself, can't agree to disagree about certain things, threatens to maintain his ego and being right.
But, he's built his own business from nothing 10 years ago and has taken good care of my mom, even though I believe his domineering personality contributes to her health problems. They certainly did mine, but they are now better as I am becoming more psychologically independent.
My dad's an ESTJ. Not a good relationship. Demands order, calls attention to himself, can't agree to disagree about certain things, threatens to maintain his ego and being right.
But, he's built his own business from nothing 10 years ago and has taken good care of my mom, even though I believe his domineering personality contributes to her health problems. They certainly did mine, but they are now better as I am becoming more psychologically independent.