[PUG] Israel belongs to the Jews/Palestinians?

[Morgain]

I'm watching a documentary about the Jews in Israel. It is a documentary where a Belgian journalist spend a week with all the major religions to give us an impression on how it is to believe in that religion. We have had islam (haven't seen that), zenboedism, christianity (nunnery), hara krisna, hindouism and now judaism.

In every religion I could find some values and rituals where I could find myself in, and in which I could see the purpose and also the resemblance between all religions. There are so many simularities, the ways are different but the goal is the same, contact with god and your inner self, finding purpose in your life. But this is the first documentary that really pisses me of. she follows some Belgian/Dutch people who converted to judaism and are now living in Israel. My God they don't even belong to "the people of God" and still they are talking like they do. Judea belongs to the jews because the name says it, it is always been there land. He lives in the part that has been assigned to the palestinians and he doesn't see any problems in it because "this piece of land has always been ours (ours???) and "do you see any Palestinians living here now?" When he hears moslim prayers he gets mad because they are saying rubbish to THERE God and start praying himself because otherwise he loses contact with his God. The moske and the temple can't stand next to eachother, there can't be any other building next to the new temple. The rebuilding of the temple will mean the start of world peace :shocked:

and not once he acknowledge the fact that on the other side of the Jordan milions of people are still (after 40 years) living in tents...

what do you think, does Israel realy belongs the the Jews or does it belongs to the Palestinians?

 

[Sloe Djinn]

Morgain, what's the name of the documentary?

 

[Morgain]

Morgain, what's the name of the documentary?

"in godsnaam" (= in the name of God) It is a Belgian documentary

 

[Satya]

Israel is land. It belongs to whoever conquers it. If I move in with an army and I conquer it, then it will belong to me. People of course won't be happy that I took it and they will violently try to get it back, but as long as I occupy it and I have the military power to keep it, then it will still belong to me.

Now why a bunch of idiots want to fight over some desert land in the middle of the Gawd-forsaken Middle East is beyond me. If they want to call land that has been covered in the blood of generation after generation "Holy" then let them. It testifies perfectly to the rest of the sane world what the meaning behind "Holy" really is.

If the United States stepped away from Israel then it would fall within years. It's unfortunate that Americans are stuck as a part of this crap, but there isn't much we can do.

 

[enfp can be shy]

Morgain, I enjoy your sincere posts so much, I can't describe.

There are 3 phases of answering this, depending on time and level of conservatism:

1. I certainly support the Palestinians, they were practically treated like sub-humans, and still are, by the support of international superpowers.

2. they should make it one big sacret Vatican where all religions can live together --- I actually voted for that.

3. The real truth is: There is NOTHING sacred or special about that place. Absolutely. Nothing.

Pile of sand on a rock in the cosmic space, which won't be there in a billion years.

 

[Morgain]

Morgain, I enjoy your sincere posts so much, I can't describe.

There are 3 phases of answering this, depending on time and level of conservatism:

1. I certainly support the Palestinians, they were practically treated like sub-humans, and still are, by the support of international superpowers.

2. they should make it one big sacret Vatican where all religions can live together --- I actually voted for that.

3. The real truth is: There is NOTHING sacred or special about that place. Absolutely. Nothing.

Pile of sand on a rock in the cosmic space, which won't be there in a billion years.

haha ENFP can't pin down an answer, where have I seen that before?? ... Oh :shocked: ... yeah ... Me :w:

Now why a bunch of idiots want to fight over some desert land in the middle of the Gawd-forsaken Middle East is beyond me. If they want to call land that has been covered in the blood of generation after generation "Holy" then let them. It testifies perfectly to the rest of the sane world what the meaning behind "Holy" really is.

haha, that is the BEST point of view I have heard ever!!!!

 

[bamf]

It's such a messy situation. I took a class last semester that focused almost entirely on the Palestinian/Israeli conflict. Everything seems so hopeless for the time being. I think the only hope is in younger generations seeing how foolish all of this squabbling is. It's impossible to pin-point a certain set of causes for the situation, seeing as there are almost countless reasons behind the situation and they all are intertwined.

I've thought turning Jerusalem into a new Vatican, and giving Palestine the West Bank would be a good answer, but there still are so many unanswered questions even if a two state solution becomes popular. Water, transportation, military/defense, Palestinian immigrants back to the area...

Bah. I hate thinking about it. I have absolutely no idea what can be done.

 

[enfp can be shy]

Heh, no, I have a strict answer: it is the 3rd one. The land is not sacred, and all these people should be treated as equals, it's not so difficult. But... this probably won't happen immediately. To answer very straightforwardly: Israel belongs to nobody. Even I have a claim to it, which is in no way less valid. Israel belongs to me!.. And to you! And to mf too. It even belongs to the two pandas in my avatar.

 

[Stu]

I would vote that it belongs to the Israelis because they have the military and economic might to make it so.

 

[The Jester]

I find it funny how the Jews were given the land because of the way they were treated in the first half of the 20th century, and now they treat the Palestinians in the Gaza-area basically the same way. Locking them up and cutting off their supplies.
And they get away with it because of their history.

I must admit, if I was Isra

 

[Stu]

I find it funny how the Jews were given the land
Kudos to the people who can find structure in this post.

A closer look at the history shows, in my opinion, that the state of Israel was established by the people who largely escaped from the European slaughter. And they did it by organizing well, fighting hard and bravely. Certainly they were helped by the post war allies but it is and exaggeration to claim that Palestine was given to them, they took it.

 

[acd]

I don't think it's for me to answer to whom it belongs.. And I dislike these poll options.

But I will say that in my limited knowledge of the conflict, Palestine is being aggressively occupied by Israel. Or in other words, "Screwed over."

I know that in American media, the conflict is portrayed as Palestinians mindlessly attacking Israelis, while Israelis are only trying to maintain peace and order.. Which is not the case.

I recommend a documentary called, "Peace, Propaganda, and the Promised Land" to you, Morgain.

 

[just me]

Israel is land. It belongs to whoever conquers it. If I move in with an army and I conquer it, then it will belong to me. People of course won't be happy that I took it and they will violently try to get it back, but as long as I occupy it and I have the military power to keep it, then it will still belong to me.

Now why a bunch of idiots want to fight over some desert land in the middle of the Gawd-forsaken Middle East is beyond me. If they want to call land that has been covered in the blood of generation after generation "Holy" then let them. It testifies perfectly to the rest of the sane world what the meaning behind "Holy" really is.

If the United States stepped away from Israel then it would fall within years. It's unfortunate that Americans are stuck as a part of this crap, but there isn't much we can do.

This mainly testifies about how you feel, which is your right.

 

[just me]

If I may quote a friend of mine from "The Mediterranean" area.......
"The dynamics of the region are complicated."
Coming from a professional in the medical field, I take that as a well-educated answer: a careful choice of words with nothing but factual evidence from a learned man. We also discussed how the dynamics are changing due to population changes concerning birth rates.

My vote due to careful examination of the wording of choices:
none of the above.

 

[acd]

If I may quote a friend of mine from "The Mediterranean" area.......
"The dynamics of the region are complicated."
Coming from a professional in the medical field, I take that as a well-educated answer: a careful choice of words with nothing but factual evidence from a learned man. We also discussed how the dynamics are changing due to population changes concerning birth rates.

My vote due to careful examination of the wording of choices:
none of the above.

I agree with you here.

 

[NeverAmI]

A closer look at the history shows, in my opinion, that the state of Israel was established by the people who largely escaped from the European slaughter. And they did it by organizing well, fighting hard and bravely. Certainly they were helped by the post war allies but it is and exaggeration to claim that Palestine was given to them, they took it.

From what I understand, Palestine/transjordan/israel was included in the agreement of land to be given to the Arabs in WWI by Britain and they turned on the deal after the Arabs helped them fight the Ottomans. In addition, they had been promised one united nation, which also didn't turn out.

I can't say what land belongs to who because I don't know all the facts. I personally think they all need to grow the hell up and stop acting like 5 year olds. I won't make a call on who it "belongs" to, but I believe it needs to be secular. I think all of the middle east needs to be secular (yea-right)

An interesting video, can't say on how accurate the facts are.

Peace, Propaganda, and the Promised Land
http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...q=palestine&view=3#docid=-6604775898578139565

If Israel is being as atrocious as some of these show, then shame on them. Their past won't hold much sympathy for them much longer if that is the case. I know that they confiscate all media coming in or going out.

I will tell you one thing, if the US runs outta dough and Israel really has been acting like asses, they will be annihilated.

Israel seems to have CRAZY influence on our media.

 

[NeverAmI]

I recommend a documentary called, "Peace, Propaganda, and the Promised Land" to you, Morgain.

Haha, <3

 

[Puck]

It's fair to say that the British were to blame. Sorry everyone.

 

[Barnabas]

Historically it has gone to the with the army to hold it. Right now, Isreal has the biggest army.

 

[JShafer]

Israel doesn't have the biggest army, in fact its pretty small, but they do have the BEST army. They could take out pretty much anyone anywhere no problem.

As for my take, I believe it is the land of the Jews, I believe that God did in fact give it to them. Say what you will but I stand by my beliefs.