Is this a safe space for intelligent conversation?

D

deivejek2|9

Community Member
MBTI
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I don't feel like it is, and right now I'm hesitant to post anything personal in this subforum (or any other, to be honest). I (and others) have come to expect passive aggressive provocation and disrespectful, mocking banter on these forums, and that's unfortunate. It discourages people who might otherwise feel comfortable sharing intimate parts of their lives from posting or responding, and that means we're not likely hearing from a significant element of the community that might have genuinely interesting and relevant knowledge or wisdom to contribute to our discussions.

Some of you may not realize how sacred and meaningful magic(k), mysticism, spirituality, psychic phenomena, and so on, are to many of us. These are aspects of our deepest selves, and when we choose to share our thoughts and feelings about these subjects, we're putting ourselves out there in a way that's similar to people talking about their sexual orientation or profound religious beliefs. When you make jokes it's insulting and cheapens the feel of the community.

I also think it's worth pointing out that the "[PAX]" label placed in front of threads means "peace." My understanding is that it indicates the thread starter is looking for honest and sincere responses to the post, and doesn't want the thread to devolve into a battleground over the topic or individuals attacking one another with cheap shots or passive aggressive word play. It doesn't mean differing beliefs can't be expressed or intelligent conversation about other points of view isn't welcome, but the PAX indicator does mean care should be taken not to offend others.

At this point, I'm not sure how I feel about the forums, in general, but it's not very positive. I love the majority of people here, but probably won't stick around if this is the kind of crap that I have to deal with every time I begin a thread or respond to someone else's. Believe it or not, I'm not an especially sensitive person, but I get enough of this type of unnecessary negativity in my personal life and don't want it compounded by a bunch of attention seeking idiots in a forum that I visit in order to relax and communicate/connect with other mature human beings. Half the time, it's like we're dealing with bots because there are certain people who are sadly predictable in their antagonizing and/or infantile remarks.

I've chosen not to lose sleep over this sort of behavior, but I did want to make you all aware that it's driving good people away from the forums. I've had many, many conversations about the rampant bullying and blatant disrespect on the forums with other members, and sadly no one seems to be speaking up about it. Is this what you really want? Dissonance and an outlet to put down others for having beliefs/thoughts contrary to your own? Please give this sincere consideration. If this is what the forum is truly about, I've come to the wrong place.
 
Do you report posts?
There's good reason to if you feel this way.
 
I appreciate your words Zak. I made a flippant comment on your thread myself. I believe in all sorts of spiritual things that are outside the norm with my Native background. I apologize.
 
Sonyab said:
I appreciate your words Zak. I made a flippant comment on your thread myself. I believe in all sorts of spiritual things that are outside the norm with my Native background. I apologize.
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Thanks, Sonyab, though I don't remember ever having a problem with anything you've written. :) Flippant is different than making a passive aggressive comment because you have bad feelings about the topic or the individual who started the thread. If you did say something, it didn't come off as malicious.
 
zak said:
I'm not going to link to examples, acd. You've seen it, you've been a part of it. You know exactly what I'm talking about. It's also happened to me via PMs, so it's not always a public occurrence. But whatever. Seriously. I'm not interested in saying anything more about this. Sorry.
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I don't even remember ever participating in a thread you started or commenting directly to you or about anything you have ever posted in any threads.
But if you really are that upset about any of my posts, feel free to report them.
I'm not intentionally trying to offend... I'm joking around... for whatever that is worth to you.
 
I really like it here. It makes it difficult to see the good sometimes when the bickering gets started. I am disappointed that your experience has been less than spectacular. Whenever personalities meet and do the social thing it becomes chancy. I hope you give the forum a chance. I would love to PM about spiritual beliefs. In general, my beliefs tell me things aren't secret as much as they are private.
 
zak said:
I only recently learned that you could do this (thanks @tovlo), but that's a good suggestion. Thank you, acd. My apologies for being cranky in my last response. It's just a point of frustrating right now. I hope you understand that it's not personal.
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No prob.
Some of us come here for different reasons I suppose.
Some of us take it more seriously than others. I just come to bs.
I'm not aware of my comments affecting the experience of others here.
 
Yeah, it's the first forum I've ever been a member of too.
A lot of things seem to get lost in translation over the 'nets.
 
I've noticed what you are talking about also. What gets me is the gossipy BS that goes on a lot (who cares who you have a forum crush on, effing seriously), but I don't want to start this into a bitchfest or anything. I just put that out there to say I can sympathize. That element around here has admittedly kept me from responding as much as I might otherwise. But I think I am okay with that.

I like your presence on these forums, I hope you will stay. :]
 
zak said:
I don't feel like it is, and right now I'm hesitant to post anything personal in this subforum (or any other, to be honest). I (and others) have come to expect passive aggressive provocation and disrespectful, mocking banter on these forums, and that's unfortunate. It discourages people who might otherwise feel comfortable sharing intimate parts of their lives from posting or responding, and that means we're not likely hearing from a significant element of the community that might have genuinely interesting and relevant knowledge or wisdom to contribute to our discussions.

Some of you may not realize how sacred and meaningful magic(k), mysticism, spirituality, psychic phenomena, and so on, are to many of us. These are aspects of our deepest selves, and when we choose to share our thoughts and feelings about these subjects, we're putting ourselves out there in a way that's similar to people talking about their sexual orientation or profound religious beliefs. When you make jokes it's insulting and cheapens the feel of the community.

I also think it's worth pointing out that the "[PAX]" label placed in front of threads means "peace." My understanding is that it indicates the thread starter is looking for honest and sincere responses to the post, and doesn't want the thread to devolve into a battleground over the topic or individuals attacking one another with cheap shots or passive aggressive word play. It doesn't mean differing beliefs can't be expressed or intelligent conversation about other points of view isn't welcome, but the PAX indicator does mean care should be taken not to offend others.

At this point, I'm not sure how I feel about the forums, in general, but it's not very positive. I love the majority of people here, but probably won't stick around if this is the kind of crap that I have to deal with every time I begin a thread or respond to someone else's. Believe it or not, I'm not an especially sensitive person, but I get enough of this type of unnecessary negativity in my personal life and don't want it compounded by a bunch of attention seeking idiots in a forum that I visit in order to relax and communicate/connect with other mature human beings. Half the time, it's like we're dealing with bots because there are certain people who are sadly predictable in their antagonizing and/or infantile remarks.

I've chosen not to lose sleep over this sort of behavior, but I did want to make you all aware that it's driving good people away from the forums. I've had many, many conversations about the rampant bullying and blatant disrespect on the forums with other members, and sadly no one seems to be speaking up about it. Is this what you really want? Dissonance and an outlet to put down others for having beliefs/thoughts contrary to your own? Please give this sincere consideration. If this is what the forum is truly about, I've come to the wrong place.
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+1

Not an isolated experience by any means. In the last few days I have had two other conversations, not brought up by me, where a similar sentiment has been expressed.

Different people come here for different reasons--totally understood. I think right now though, one kind of voice is drowning out the others. I think it would only take commitment to enforcing the rules and abiding by the policies that are already in place and agreed upon by the members for this to be space where people can bs and where there can be intelligent conversation without tripping over "joking" landmines.

From what I gather, in order for there to be that commitment to enforcing the rules and policies, the staff need to know that people want this place to be different. Right now it seems like the primary voices speaking up are the voices that want to keep it primarily about the bs. If people want there to be room for anything else, we've got to speak up.

I wasn't even really aware of the "report" button until a couple of months ago, and even once aware, I've been reticent to use it. I've come to accept that it is one tool I have available and I have begun to use it when I see something that violates the rules. This forum isn't mine to make as I would desire, but I am a member here and so I do have some say. Maybe my voice will contribute to what this forum eventually becomes, maybe it won't, but it certainly won't if I don't say what I'd prefer. I truly hope that people who's tendency might naturally be to ignore or walk away from negativity, will consider that they might have an impact if they speak up. Who knows, maybe there really aren't more than a handful of people who want a different kind of discussion space available to them, but again, how will we know unless people stand up and speak up?
 
Are you sure you are not an INTJ? Jk.

I basically agree with you, though I don't know how the problem can be solved. I have relatively low expectations of the quality of posts you'll find on this sub-forum, although some members do a great job. I will also say that overall it is better than the INTJ forums in my opinion, which isn't to say that it is good, but it isn't absolutely terrible either. Also, I am biased.
 
I wonder what it is you refer to exactly.

I've had serious discussions here and I found the experience very much worthwhile.

As for my own posts, I usually either formulate my ideas through structure, or I let my Ne take over.

And very rarely, I opt for aggressive, because my primary goal in those situations is to transcend the logic barrier that makes a sound argument incomprehensible to more unfortunate souls.

That said, I've heard of this drama going on... my girlfriend has complained about it.

And I don't read the sections of the forum that attract most drama, so I barely noticed it.

So again: what exactly have people been doing? I have found most people on this forum to be respectful in their replies to serious threads, after all. Then again, I am still relatively new. Is this an older problem?


Agapooka
 
Also, the magic and mysticism subforums in particular were basically created by Shai Gar to talk about Satanism, or that is how I saw it. He was a complete joker- I could never get a serious discussion out of him. But he did kind of set a trend here.
 
Dragon said:
Are you sure you are not an INTJ? Jk.
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Yes. :)

Dragon said:
Also, the magic and mysticism subforums in particular were basically created by Shai Gar to talk about Satanism, or that is how I saw it. He was a complete joker- I could never get a serious discussion out of him. But he did kind of set a trend here.
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Fortunately, Shai Gar's not around anymore (as far as we know). I've never met him, nor did I have any expectations of the "Magic and Mysticism" subforums. I made the assumption, however, that there would be a basic sense of decency and respect between members, and considering the subject matter, thought people might be more open and sincere. But, whatever may have happened in the past... that's the past. I vote we move on and bring some dignity to the "Magic and Mysticism" subforums. I, for one, really enjoy reading/posting in there, and take the subject matter quite seriously.
 
I'm relieved to know I'm not the only one who feels this way.
I've only been on this forum about a month, so I've been wondering
if this is just my hypersensitive perception, or if there is true animosity here.
While I usually tend to hold back my personal opinions on most things anyways,
I do notice I am censoring myself even when I feel strongly about a topic.
I do try to treat everyone with sincere respect to their situation, which
I may not understand in its entirety. Naturally, I'd like the same consideration,
but I do wonder if I will receive it.
I had considered starting a blog for cathartic reasons, but I don't wish to
feel required to justify my emotions to someone who isn't concerned about my circumstances,
or is annoyed by my need to vent.
There is no one here who has personally offended me at his point,
and there are some truly kind individuals here with whom I've had
the privilege to interact with.
That said, I'm not certain this forum is the safe and supportive place
which I had hoped to find.
 
Don't feel the need to censor yourself if you need to vent.
Just go for it.

Even if you feel it could be innaproppriate or whatever, go for it anyways.
If you don't want to justify your emotions, don't do it. Not your problem.
 
[MENTION=3499]zak[/MENTION] Are you talking about this particular sub forum in particular or the whole forum in general?
 
dream echo said:
There is no one here who has personally offended me at his point,
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Thank you for all of your thoughts on this, dream echo. I feel similarly. I hope, over time, that things will change. Or that we can at least come to some understanding of what we want out of the forums and from other forum members.

For the record, no one here has offended me personally, either. I may have taken issue with some of the things that people have written, but I don't feel at odds with anyone in particular.

Royal said:
Even if you feel it could be innaproppriate or whatever, go for it anyways.
If you don't want to justify your emotions, don't do it. Not your problem.
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Easy for an ENTP to say. ;) No, I understand what you're saying. Good point. I think this may be tougher for some of us than others, though.
 
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