Is it easier for Fe users to accept Christ as truth, and not just a myth??

[GracieRuth]

Just to throw in my own two cents worth in this discussion of buddha nature and original sin....

We Jews believe humans have more than one nature. Our Yetzer Tov, or good nature, is our desire to do good, to love, to become better than we are and to make the world a better place for others. Our Yetzer Hara, or bad inclination, is our animal instincts, our desire to do what is selfish regardless of whether it hurts others or even hurts ourselves in the long term. I am reminded of the Cherokee story where the grandfather is telling his grandson that we all have two wolves within us, a good wolf and a bad wolf, that are constantly fighting. The grandson is alarmed and says, "But Grandfather, which will win?" And the grandfather replies, "The one I feed."

 

[magister343]

It should also be noted that witnesses found to be false would be subject to whatever punishment they tried to bring against the accused. This very often means that perjury was a capital offense.

Tradition made the conditions for conviction even tougher. The witnesses' testimony must not only agree about the deed, but about seeing each other there. They must have warned the accused of the wrongness of the action beforehand, and stayed to watch after their warnings were ignored. If the accused was convicted of a capital offense, the witnesses themselves would be the executioners. If the tribunal decided unanimously in favor of guilt, then it was declared a mistrial and the accused to set free. Without some dissent, it would be assumed that the jurors had been bribed or intimidated to conform with a popular position rather than being honest about their own doubts. It was said that a Sanhedrin that upheld an execution even once every 70 years was scorned as a bloody court.



While I personally accept the resurrection, I must take issue with the value of the "500 eyewitness accounts." It actually amounts to a single non-eyewitness account claiming that there were over 500 unidentified eyewitnesses. We do not have the testimony of the eyewitnesses themselves to compare, and most of them would probably not be able to confirm eachother's presence anyway.

 

[Billy]

Christ was seen by 500 eyewitnesses? Where did you read that? Please dont tell me the bible.

 

[Artsu Tharaz]

re: thread title

This seems counter-intuitive. You would think Fe would accept Christ as a valid symbol for maintaining social harmony or something, and for Ni-Fe in particular, Christianity would have Ni significance, which is not meant to imply that it actually happened historically. I think Fi would be more likely to.

 

[Feelings]

I am agnostic, and cannot see things any other way because the dots won't fit.

I do have irrational fears, like a fear of ghosts, and demons, but I KNOW they are irrational.

Feeler types I find are much more willing to believe in something for no logical reason. They can't separate logic from emotion, oftentimes.

 

[Artsu Tharaz]

Feeler types I find are much more willing to believe in something for no logical reason. They can't separate logic from emotion, oftentimes.

I am probably guilty of this. Could you elaborate?

Would the Feeler probably think that they -are- being logical? Are they, in fact, being logical, but with the emotions dictating which axioms to use?

 

[NYLilac]

NYLilac: the witnesses must testify before a beit din (jewish tribunal) and must both be "kosher" jews. Even then, the witnesses must convince the tribunal. It is the tribunal that rules, not the witnesses.

There is a case in the longer canon of the prophet Daniel: the story of Susanna (Shoshana). Two elders conspire together to rape her and lie about it in court, and Daniel uncovers their plot and vindicates the woman. Obviously, while two witnesses is mandatory, two witnesses alone is not sufficient.

Please please please. My only request of Christians is to actually LEARN about Judaism first, before making these kinds of comments. Believe what you want, but don't misrepresent us.

Gracie, I have nothing but compassion and respect for the Jewish people, and i am always eager to learn more. It is possible that my natural great grandma was Jewish, but I have no way of knowing because Grandma was adopted as an infant. I would love to know my heritage.

 

[Feelings]

I am probably guilty of this. Could you elaborate?

Would the Feeler probably think that they -are- being logical? Are they, in fact, being logical, but with the emotions dictating which axioms to use?

Their arguments won't follow linear logic. Even when you point that out, their response is non-linear. They might ridicule you, or what you're saying, or throw in a bunch of demeaning rhetoric, without having an actual logical argument to refute you.

 

[Kgal]

Just to throw in my own two cents worth in this discussion of buddha nature and original sin....

We Jews believe humans have more than one nature. Our Yetzer Tov, or good nature, is our desire to do good, to love, to become better than we are and to make the world a better place for others. Our Yetzer Hara, or bad inclination, is our animal instincts, our desire to do what is selfish regardless of whether it hurts others or even hurts ourselves in the long term. I am reminded of the Cherokee story where the grandfather is telling his grandson that we all have two wolves within us, a good wolf and a bad wolf, that are constantly fighting. The grandson is alarmed and says, "But Grandfather, which will win?" And the grandfather replies, "The one I feed."

I have loved the Cherokee Wolves story from the first moment I heard/saw it. One of my favorites because it resonates with me.

It implies we are born with both potential natures. Yin Yang? Perhaps.
Still...not original sin in my mind.

 

[GracieRuth]

Gracie, I have nothing but compassion and respect for the Jewish people, and i am always eager to learn more. It is possible that my natural great grandma was Jewish, but I have no way of knowing because Grandma was adopted as an infant. I would love to know my heritage.

You are always welcome to PM me privately!!!

 

[GracieRuth]

Their arguments won't follow linear logic. Even when you point that out, their response is non-linear. They might ridicule you, or what you're saying, or throw in a bunch of demeaning rhetoric, without having an actual logical argument to refute you.

I don't think this is related to being a feeler of any sort. It's a certain kind of intelligence. One can be a feeler (meaning that people matter more than truth) and still be a highly rational person. Similarly a person can be a thinker, and still be pretty bad at it. Some of the most irrational people I know are thinkers.

 

[Feelings]

I don't think this is related to being a feeler of any sort. It's a certain kind of intelligence. One can be a feeler (meaning that people matter more than truth) and still be a highly rational person. Similarly a person can be a thinker, and still be pretty bad at it. Some of the most irrational people I know are thinkers.

This Gracie impresses me, mostly because what she's saying matches up with my knowledge and experiences so well.

 

[grt$5vb]

I don't think this is related to being a feeler of any sort. It's a certain kind of intelligence. One can be a feeler (meaning that people matter more than truth) and still be a highly rational person. Similarly a person can be a thinker, and still be pretty bad at it. Some of the most irrational people I know are thinkers.

Umm... I think you have to be careful lumping infjs in with feelers. Truth is paramount for me... people be damned.

 

[Broken705]

I don't think this is related to being a feeler of any sort. It's a certain kind of intelligence. One can be a feeler (meaning that people matter more than truth) and still be a highly rational person. Similarly a person can be a thinker, and still be pretty bad at it. Some of the most irrational people I know are thinkers.

I somewhat agree with this. I mainly disagree with the word "truth". I have come across some feelers who have tried to argue that truth is subjective or relative. I personally don't think that way, but some people do.

I think it may be better to say that, in general, many feelers put people before ideas, which would be the opposite of a thinker.

I have read once before that feelers care more about how something is said than what is said. But I think that is actually more of a thinker's perception of a feeler.

It is logical and praticle to pay attention to how something is said if one wishes to communicate effectivley. I don't care what anyone says about their hatred of political correctness- to me, it doesn't have anything to do with that.

I do care about what is said, but the message must be presented in a manner that will be understood by the desired audience.

------------

As for the original topic, I'm an INFJ, and I am agnostic. Like some of the other people here, I accepted it wholeheartedly when I was a child, but as I grew older, I began to question my faith more.

I wouldn't reltate it to Fe v. Fi. Actually, from some things that I've read, Fi is thought to be more comparable Ti.

 

[Saru Inc]

sorry for putting this on -your- thread Purplecrayons, but I'm so sick of the bullshit TJs spread around that Fs cannot seperate logic from emotion etc, because they fear the cold hard facts. And I'm sick of TPs saying Fs cannot seperate themselves from the group, and we are all mindless sheep just waiting to be slaughtered.

Also take note I'm not really referring to any posts here, moreso just ones I see on other websites etc. Its so aggravating. I can absolutely separate logic from emotion, or whatever, its just extremely uncomfortable for me to do so. If I see 300 people all doing one thing, even if it makes no sense to me, I will still do it, BUT only if I know it will have either a) no harmful lasting effects or b) it is a harmless activity. In other words, I am a Christian because I see God everywhere in the world, perhaps that -is- the F side of me, inthat I can't really explain it in logical terms, and I frankly don't have any proof for it. I am however NOT a Christian because my family is, or because my community is. When dealing with your soul, to take another one's word for it, is heiniously ridiculous.

I think I might see what Crayon is getting at, but I don't know if I agree. I will however, note that I see far more Fi users (even inf) who are non religious, and Fe users do tend to be more religious. My ISTJ brother and INTJ brother are both Christian I guess... They don't go to church or anything, and I've never heard them every say anything Christian like, but somewhere deep down I think I know they are Christian.

I also hate fundamentalist atheists. yucks.

I also hate the fact I have no evident proof to prove God is alive. Boo for Te. Boooooo.