Is it easier for Fe users to accept Christ as truth, and not just a myth?? | INFJ Forum

Is it easier for Fe users to accept Christ as truth, and not just a myth??

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grt$5vb

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I am always wondering how INTJs, especially, reconcile this within their minds, and I know 2 INTJs personally who avidly worship Christ. I can't make it make sense, psychologically. Spiritually I get it, but I am just wondering if they have to have more convincing, do more research... just basically how they approached it in the beginning. I guess with Fi they could just "feel" if something is right for them, but couldn't they scientifically disprove a human God? If so, how do they continue to follow Him?
 
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If one worships something then one need only do it because it resonates with you. There is no need to 'prove' if the direction is correct in your view.
 
Hmmm, okay. I guess maybe I am wondering why it would resonate, what benefits it would have? Why Fi users would choose to follow doctrine written outside of themselves, that seemed organized for the masses?

I am still struggling to understand Fi, so I apologize for any ignorance or generalizations on my part.

Christianity just seems WAAAY easier to sell to a Fe user, in my opinion, and I am intrigued how Fi users approach it, and why they would choose it over other options.
 
purplecrayons said:
I am always wondering how INTJs, especially, reconcile this within their minds, and I know 2 INTJs personally who avidly worship Christ. I can't make it make sense, psychologically. Spiritually I get it, but I am just wondering if they have to have more convincing, do more research... just basically how they approached it in the beginning. I guess with Fi they could just "feel" if something is right for them, but couldn't they scientifically unprove a human God? If so, how do they continue to follow Him?
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Hmm, I thought that was impossible, to be honest. Maybe they're not INTJ?
I know there are very respected scientists who attend my parents' church. Someone somewhere on the internet theorized that these people might apply their logic to everything in life but their religion. Like a blind spot. It's similar to the way I sometimes don't feel very much when it comes to other people and their circumstances, but that when it comes to myself I'm all emotions.
 
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I would actually argue that it would be easier for an Fi user to be religious than an Fe users. The reason is because with Fi you base things upon your internal value systems, So Fi can find ways to base religion on your internal values. Fe is more externally focused and doesn't necessarily go with the flow. Many people like to think of Fe as a sort of herd mentality, I very strongly disagree with this assumption. It is an ability to see others points of view, but does not necessarily mean that you agree with those points of view only that you can see where they are coming from. Martin Luther King, Gandhi, and Jesus Christ were all said to be Fe dominants, these people certainly didn't follow the grain in their views.

I would also say that there is another element to religion, that element is pain. If someone feels that they maybe able to see someone they loved and lost again in the after life in may be enough to make them believe.
 
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[MENTION=4552]Air[/MENTION]

Hmm, yes, when people (like me) assume things like that, it is because we don't have a basis for understanding Fe, Te, what have you. I find it's very easy for me to understand and identify Ni, because it's so dominant in my life. When it comes to some of the other functions, though, I'm clueless-- until someone with an understanding of it explains it to me. Or, if I bother to look it up, but sometimes the descriptions are still pretty vague.
 
I am INFJ and I do not find it easy at all to accept Christ as anything other then a mythological character. I would think it has more to do with how people are raised and what is introduced to them as important and how consistent that message is. Luckily my parents never really took me to Church and didnt lead very Christian/Catholic lives, so it was easy for me to see why it was so absurd to buy into any of it. Not much pressure on me to conform.
 
Billy said:
I am INFJ and I do not find it easy at all to accept Christ as anything other then a mythological character. I would think it has more to do with how people are raised and what is introduced to them as important and how consistent that message is. Luckily my parents never really took me to Church and didnt lead very Christian/Catholic lives, so it was easy for me to see why it was so absurd to buy into any of it. Not much pressure on me to conform.
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It would seem so, in theory, but I was not raised in a Christian family, yet chose to attend church alone. Sought it out on my own, whereas an INTJ friend of mine was raised Catholic, then dissented when he moved out on his own.
 
Air said:
I would actually argue that it would be easier for an Fi user to be religious than an Fe users. The reason is because with Fi you base things upon your internal value systems, So Fi can find ways to base religion on your internal values. Fe is more externally focused and doesn't necessarily go with the flow. Many people like to think of Fe as a sort of herd mentality, I very strongly disagree with this assumption. It is an ability to see others points of view, but does not necessarily mean that you agree with those points of view only that you can see where they are coming from. Martin Luther King, Gandhi, and Jesus Christ were all said to be Fe dominants, these people certainly didn't follow the grain in their views.

I would also say that there is another element to religion, that element is pain. If someone feels that they maybe able to see someone they loved and lost again in the after life in may be enough to make them believe.
Click to expand...

I agree with the first paragraph, but the last bit seems more like an idealistic notion, which I would not attribute to thinkers.
 
subwayrider said:
Hmm, I thought that was impossible, to be honest. Maybe they're not INTJ?
I know there are very respected scientists who attend my parents' church. Someone somewhere on the internet theorized that these people might apply their logic to everything in life but their religion. Like a blind spot. It's similar to the way I sometimes don't feel very much when it comes to other people and their circumstances, but that when it comes to myself I'm all emotions.
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Blind spot. Okay. This sounds like what [MENTION=3473]InvisibleJim[/MENTION] was referring to, perhaps. That makes more sense to me.
 
I would expand the OP's question to religion in general instead of one branch, if I may.

Religion, as a social entity that binds the Tribe of humanity together in safety and unified purpose, is an Fe construct. Bringing a group together for the benefit and improvement of all? Screams Fe. Spirituality is philosophical instead of psychological; therefore, I don't believe it can be summed up by one of Jung's cognitive functions. Belief is belief, reasoning for it tends to appear after one is introduced to it. Different approaches and basis between Fe/Fi and Te/Ti, but reaches the same endpoint.

Thinkers like data; give them plausible data for the existence of something and they will consider it.
Feelers like morals; show them an agreeable moral reason to follow something and they too will consider it.
Different lens for seeing the same thing. Still human, no x-ray vision included.
 
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Although SP's often choose to go surfing rather than participate in an organized religion, in other regards you will find the same dispersion of temperaments in church as anywhere else. An Fe will experience and reflect their beliefs differently than an Fi, but I've seen no statistics to indicate that one is more prone to "true belief" than the other.

The only group that consistantly and seriously has problems going to the extreme in interpretation of stories are schizophrenics (concrete thinking). Most people do understand that "I am the vine" is a metaphor.

INTJ's are excellent theologians and leaders. I've worked with a number of clergy who are NT's. They tend to experience religion as SYSTEMS of abstraction, and enjoy organizing the ideas. They are also really good at doing hatchet jobs on dysfunctional committees. Hey sometimes you need an axe man. If an INTJ is a pastor, he pastors best if he has an NF spouse or an NF assistant to help him understand relationships in the community and encourage him to have more patience with people.

The idea that "rational people" are not involved in religion has no basis in reality. The idea is a conceit of Enlightenment thinking.

Those scientists who are looking into humanity's unique aspirations in the religious realm do say that some portion of our mind needs this less conscious more intuitive symbolic expression. They note that those who don't have a particular religion in which to express usually find other archetypal systems to use, such worrying about global warming (end times) or alien abductions (demons) or throwing off the shackles of economic oppression (promised land). IOW, this area of our brains WILL express in some form.
 
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"I don't believe it can be summed up by one of Jung's cognitive functions"

Good observation, [MENTION=4108]Radiant Shadow[/MENTION].
 
One reason for scientific minds believing in a human God is that science does not disprove one. Actually, from a physics point of view, the idea of a God is actually highly supported.... there was nothing and then their was something and we cannot know before that because our universe did not exist before that. I worked with a group doing an engineering project for nasa and most of the group were INTJ, I was the only INFJ (and yes, I did an in depth sociological study on the group with their permission). What I found was that most of us are religious, only 1 of the 9 was not. Although, no one would/wanted to talk about religion when I tried to bring it up. They were actually rude about it when I tried to start a discussion as a group and not just with individuals. I was highly upset about it as they normally do not behave rudely and there was no cause for it when the discussion did not get into personal beliefs at all; I was most careful.

Another way, the way I look at religion is: it is a belief system, whatever belief system you happen to have, about the unknown. We will never know everything (Heisenberg's uncertainty principle) and how we choose to think about it is our belief system. This means that scientific thought is a belief system, but that does not make it contrary to a human God. Just because we don't know exactly how one could come about does not mean that it didn't... as we are not all powerful in our knowledge. A miracle does not stop being a miracle just because you know how it works. Probability determines what is likely, but so many things contrary to probability happen... at least around me and from what I have seen in my life.

If you want to know more, from a physics view point, about how physics and a human God can correspond then let me know and I would be happy to explain. Everyone has their opinions and those with strong thinking abilities are no different, we just analyze God in a different manner. I know that I dislike much of the sheep-like Christian behavior, those that are part of the "Christian ghetto" (have friendships with only other Christians) because those are the ones who seem so willing to believe without concrete reasoning or having thought about it. Those types, of any belief system, I have a hard time understanding. Question everything. After that, much really is opinion. Science can only give you so much, and much of that is only "likely" not definite... like predicting the future or the weather ;-p
 
Aya Glenn said:
One reason for scientific minds believing in a human God is that science does not disprove one. Actually, from a physics point of view, the idea of a God is actually highly supported.... there was nothing and then their was something and we cannot know before that because our universe did not exist before that. I worked with a group doing an engineering project for nasa and most of the group were INTJ, I was the only INFJ (and yes, I did an in depth sociological study on the group with their permission). What I found was that most of us are religious, only 1 of the 9 was not. Although, no one would/wanted to talk about religion when I tried to bring it up. They were actually rude about it when I tried to start a discussion as a group and not just with individuals. I was highly upset about it as they normally do not behave rudely and there was no cause for it when the discussion did not get into personal beliefs at all; I was most careful.

Another way, the way I look at religion is: it is a belief system, whatever belief system you happen to have, about the unknown. We will never know everything (Heisenberg's uncertainty principle) and how we choose to think about it is our belief system. This means that scientific thought is a belief system, but that does not make it contrary to a human God. Just because we don't know exactly how one could come about does not mean that it didn't... as we are not all powerful in our knowledge. A miracle does not stop being a miracle just because you know how it works. Probability determines what is likely, but so many things contrary to probability happen... at least around me and from what I have seen in my life.

If you want to know more, from a physics view point, about how physics and a human God can correspond then let me know and I would be happy to explain. Everyone has their opinions and those with strong thinking abilities are no different, we just analyze God in a different manner. I know that I dislike much of the sheep-like Christian behavior, those that are part of the "Christian ghetto" (have friendships with only other Christians) because those are the ones who seem so willing to believe without concrete reasoning or having thought about it. Those types, of any belief system, I have a hard time understanding. Question everything. After that, much really is opinion. Science can only give you so much, and much of that is only "likely" not definite... like predicting the future or the weather ;-p
Click to expand...

Believing without reason is sort of a requirement to be involved in a religion. Its called Faith, and its the best hoax man ever pulled on other men of all time.
 
GracieRuth said:
The idea that "rational people" are not involved in religion has no basis in reality. The idea is a conceit of Enlightenment thinking.
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I don't recall saying that.
 
Aya Glenn said:
One reason for scientific minds believing in a human God is that science does not disprove one. Actually, from a physics point of view, the idea of a God is actually highly supported.... there was nothing and then their was something and we cannot know before that because our universe did not exist before that. I worked with a group doing an engineering project for nasa and most of the group were INTJ, I was the only INFJ (and yes, I did an in depth sociological study on the group with their permission). What I found was that most of us are religious, only 1 of the 9 was not. Although, no one would/wanted to talk about religion when I tried to bring it up. They were actually rude about it when I tried to start a discussion as a group and not just with individuals. I was highly upset about it as they normally do not behave rudely and there was no cause for it when the discussion did not get into personal beliefs at all; I was most careful.

Another way, the way I look at religion is: it is a belief system, whatever belief system you happen to have, about the unknown. We will never know everything (Heisenberg's uncertainty principle) and how we choose to think about it is our belief system. This means that scientific thought is a belief system, but that does not make it contrary to a human God. Just because we don't know exactly how one could come about does not mean that it didn't... as we are not all powerful in our knowledge. A miracle does not stop being a miracle just because you know how it works. Probability determines what is likely, but so many things contrary to probability happen... at least around me and from what I have seen in my life.

If you want to know more, from a physics view point, about how physics and a human God can correspond then let me know and I would be happy to explain. Everyone has their opinions and those with strong thinking abilities are no different, we just analyze God in a different manner. I know that I dislike much of the sheep-like Christian behavior, those that are part of the "Christian ghetto" (have friendships with only other Christians) because those are the ones who seem so willing to believe without concrete reasoning or having thought about it. Those types, of any belief system, I have a hard time understanding. Question everything. After that, much really is opinion. Science can only give you so much, and much of that is only "likely" not definite... like predicting the future or the weather ;-p
Click to expand...

Thank you. Good post.
 
Billy said:
Believing without reason is sort of a requirement to be involved in a religion.
Click to expand...

I would disagree, any belief can be a religion. Or at least, that is how I define religion because people can get just as fanatical about not believing in one thing or another. I would go by how invested someone is in their beliefs. Anyone who is not willing to give up their ideas with contrasting reasoning believes it to the extent where it could be called a religion. How would you define religion? What would someone have to do to create a religion for you to consider it a religion? see: http://www.geekosystem.com/chain-world-minecraft-as-religion/ for a look at a religion created in one week.

Faith is something everyone participates in weather they want to or not because everyone has a few irrational beliefs. Those who will not accept that are denying what is, and that is a belief, or religion in an of itself. If you want all religions to be a hoax then that means your own ideas and philosophies are also a hoax, and I am sure, like most people, you don't want that. We are all confined by our need to have some idea about something. That limits the possibilities, gives us a way to look at the world. It can do good, or harm, but there is often some sort of reasoning behind it. Reasoning can be incorrect just as logic can have you come to the conclusion that 2+2 is not 4 (and yes, it can be mathematically proven to not equal 4). But that reasoning is not a hoax, merely incorrect beginning assumptions. Everyone has those, even those who don't claim to believe anything.

Please, if you want to disagree, say something that will change my mind, not just bash my ideas. I would prefer them to be bashed for good reason, from someone who has thought about it with logical thought processes. That way I might possibly think you are right and change mine... I love refining my views, but you've got to explain well enough to change them.
 
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