Intimidating ENTP crush? What should I do?

[Chalti]

[MENTION=10364]HunterO[/MENTION]

Yeahhh, the worse that could happen is that, also I'm putting some distance because I am also quite rational about what I have to face...
We both live in Korea, but that doesn't mean we'll stay there forever. It's possible one of us will move at the end of the year, I'm just - so much conflict - I don't know if feeling this way is worth it...

 

[HunterO]

[MENTION=10364]HunterO[/MENTION]

Yeahhh, the worse that could happen is that, also I'm putting some distance because I am also quite rational about what I have to face...
We both live in Korea, but that doesn't mean we'll stay there forever. It's possible one of us will move at the end of the year, I'm just - so much conflict - I don't know if feeling this way is worth it...

It seems like you have developed a lot of expectations already- and bracing yourself for the worst. It might help if you are more flexible and allow yourself to have new experiences without immediately having a negative perspective about it.

 

[Rcs6r]

It's possible one of us will move at the end of the year, I'm just - so much conflict - I don't know if feeling this way is worth it...

You could always make it a brief one-time fling before the year's up, just to experience it. You don't have to have a full relationship with the guy... but only if you're comfortable with that sort of thing.

 

[Chalti]

Thanks everyone.

Yeah, I develop expectations way too easily which is what I'm trying to not do, but it's very difficult...
[MENTION=5861]Horatio[/MENTION] Hahaha, if only I wasn't easily emotionally attached. I am not saying I'm dependent on people, I can actually detach myself from people when I know we're not going to work out, but I do feel heavily for some of them..

I hope that made sense, it probably doesn't, but I am trying...

 

[grapefruit]

Maybe you should try writing to him. Admit that you like him and that you feel intimidated by him. Maybe don't start out by saying you have a crush, but say you want to get to know him.don't just ignore him and not talk to him if you want to.i've done that before and regretted it.as you gradually get to know him

 

[Erlian]

Yeah, I develop expectations way too easily which is what I'm trying to not do, but it's very difficult...

I solved this a while ago (for myself). If it works the same for you, you are trying the wrong thing.

As NJs we are very future oriented. We plan. We expect. We dream. Introverts even more so. We do it so we don't encounter something unexpectedly. We want to be (emotionally) prepared.
So don't try to not expect anything. It's not bad to form expectations.

Instead imagine, plan, dream and expect more than ever. The solution is in HunterO's post.

It seems like you have developed a lot of expectations already- and bracing yourself for the worst. It might help if you are more flexible and allow yourself to have new experiences without immediately having a negative perspective about it.

Don't stop developing expectations. But stop developing solely the expectation of the worst. ALSO imagine the very best!
Encounter a new experience? Imagine the very worst and the very best that could happen. Prepare emotionally for both cases. At first I preferred being prepared for every possible future, but that's impossible. Expecting both the worst AND the best will mean you got both extremes covered. No surprises. It's about balance

Step 2
If you succesfully do this, you might get confused about what to really expect. But it's a step in the right direction (it was for me). You created two extremely different expectations, that can't both be true. This difference didn't work well in my mind. I didn't know what expect. I didn't know what was true. Horrible.
The next step (2) is accepting that you simply don't know what to expect and that you don't know what is true. For now. Going into the future will reveal these things. It is your goal to go out and test your expectations. Best scenario: He loves me like no other. Worst scenario: He's been disgusted with me all the time. What's the answer? Go forth and test it by confronting your ENTP!

Step 3
Next issue that arised to me (just writing it all out as it might be helpful) was that I couldn't yet test what scenario was true. I was stuck in limbo. Impatient to find the truth. I had to prevent myself from being rash and too quick. Just texting her wouldn't really work. I was seeing her next week anyway so I had to wait. This waiting sucks...
Step 3! Accept the unknown. Even embrace it if you can. (I just threw these words in google and got a lot of how-to's, steps and guides explaining this.) I've been able to do this sporadically, but I'm still impatient sometimes. I'm not afraid for a bad scenario, because I prepared for the worst. I still want to confront it, because I know how nice a good scenario will be.

But so far the first step is the most beneficial to me. Both expecting the best and the worst will never bring me into an unexpected situation. Except that one time something happened that had never occured to me in my worst nightmares... But, hey. Sometimes life is hard.

PS. Best about this is that it jusfities me imagining me and a girl together 30 years from now with children. I'll also imagine how she actually hates me. In the end it's likely somewhere in between *shrug*. But you never know!

 

[HunterO]

I solved this a while ago (for myself). If it works the same for you, you are trying the wrong thing.

As NJs we are very future oriented. We plan. We expect. We dream. Introverts even more so. We do it so we don't encounter something unexpectedly. We want to be (emotionally) prepared.
So don't try to not expect anything. It's not bad to form expectations.

Instead imagine, plan, dream and expect more than ever. The solution is in HunterO's post.

Don't stop developing expectations. But stop developing solely the expectation of the worst. ALSO imagine the very best!
Encounter a new experience? Imagine the very worst and the very best that could happen. Prepare emotionally for both cases. At first I preferred being prepared for every possible future, but that's impossible. Expecting both the worst AND the best will mean you got both extremes covered. No surprises. It's about balance

Step 2
If you succesfully do this, you might get confused about what to really expect. But it's a step in the right direction (it was for me). You created two extremely different expectations, that can't both be true. This difference didn't work well in my mind. I didn't know what expect. I didn't know what was true. Horrible.
The next step (2) is accepting that you simply don't know what to expect and that you don't know what is true. For now. Going into the future will reveal these things. It is your goal to go out and test your expectations. Best scenario: He loves me like no other. Worst scenario: He's been disgusted with me all the time. What's the answer? Go forth and test it by confronting your ENTP!

Step 3
Next issue that arised to me (just writing it all out as it might be helpful) was that I couldn't yet test what scenario was true. I was stuck in limbo. Impatient to find the truth. I had to prevent myself from being rash and too quick. Just texting her wouldn't really work. I was seeing her next week anyway so I had to wait. This waiting sucks...
Step 3! Accept the unknown. Even embrace it if you can. (I just threw these words in google and got a lot of how-to's, steps and guides explaining this.) I've been able to do this sporadically, but I'm still impatient sometimes. I'm not afraid for a bad scenario, because I prepared for the worst. I still want to confront it, because I know how nice a good scenario will be.

But so far the first step is the most beneficial to me. Both expecting the best and the worst will never bring me into an unexpected situation. Except that one time something happened that had never occured to me in my worst nightmares... But, hey. Sometimes life is hard.

PS. Best about this is that it jusfities me imagining me and a girl together 30 years from now with children. I'll also imagine how she actually hates me. In the end it's likely somewhere in between *shrug*. But you never know!

I tend to think of win-win scenarios.

Win-win scenario 1: you make a brand new friend to navigate life's travails

Win-win scenario 2: you may fall madly in love, but have to adjust to each other to stay in love

Win-win scenario 3: you have a great new experience that changes your perspective on a lot of things

If you expect the worst, usually it happens.

I think the key to being more flexible is better, especially in relationships. People can plan out 30 years ahead, but rarely does it turn out the way they imagined. I think the best thing we can do is embrace the present and be adaptable to change by the integration of new information and experiences.

 

[Erlian]

I tend to think of win-win scenarios.

Win-win scenario 1: you make a brand new friend to navigate life's travails

Win-win scenario 2: you may fall madly in love, but have to adjust to each other to stay in love

Win-win scenario 3: you have a great new experience that changes your perspective on a lot of things

If you expect the worst, usually it happens.

I think the key to being more flexible is better, especially in relationships. People can plan out 30 years ahead, but rarely does it turn out the way they imagined. I think the best thing we can do is embrace the present and be adaptable to change by the integration of new information and experiences.

Not everything in life is always a win.

Worst case scenarios are made with the purpose of preparing for a negative situation. When the negative situation arises you won't be as surprised and know how to act. Having winwin expectations can be negative when they don't come true.
I agree that flexibility is important, but cover all of the expectations both good and bad for the most flexibility. Planning 30 years has nothing to do with reality and isn't useful. It's just wishful thinking. And I enjoy that. The only thing it does is motivating you to act. To try and reach that dream.

About embracing/accepting vs acting/changing something I did a little thoughtsession yesterday. These were my results:
The past and the present cannot be changed. Thus accept them. Embrace them.
The future can be changed, but shouldn't always be changed.
Sometimes it's best to accept your future, but sometimes it's best to take charge and try to change your future. [MENTION=12118]Chalti[/MENTION] is currently accepting her future of not being with this ENTP guy and not taking charge by asking him out for a date.
This is a decision she's currently asking for advice on here. The cost/gain equation looks like this:
Benefits of accepting: No embarrassment. No rejection. No emotional risk.
Downsides of accepting: Not being with the ENTP guy. Not knowing if he likes you.
Benefits of acting: Potentially being with ENTP guy OR knowing that he isn't interested.
Downsides of acting: Possible embarrassment, rejection or emotional risk.

Add these together with common sense and you know what to decide. Note that this list is more about the form and process and less about the content. I don't exactly know what benefits and downsides certain behaviour has for you. Maybe you're never embarrassed or maybe there's something I missed.

 

[Solongo]

Sounds like classic infatuation/crush scenario. Where you see the aspects you wish to develop within yourself in an another. It feels constrasting but all he really is showing you is an aspect of yourself you are just starting to see for yourself.

 

[Chalti]

Hey guys, thank you for your suggestions and advice...
I chose to not pursue him. I think the risk is way too high. [MENTION=12103]Erlian[/MENTION] understands how I think, and I rather not risk rejection or embarrassment. I could be reading our interactions very poorly, and we seldom interact anyway, especially, these days because we're way too busy with our own schedules - that, and I just don't really invite myself over to hang out with the group that usually invites me. It's been awhile since I last got to see these people - 3 weeks is kind of too long, and while I still have some feelings of infatuation, I'm still not risking it.

I might just wait until it fades or something happens. If I am able to see him sometime, again, I will probably just pursue a friendship!

 

[HunterO]

Not everything in life is always a win.

Worst case scenarios are made with the purpose of preparing for a negative situation. When the negative situation arises you won't be as surprised and know how to act. Having winwin expectations can be negative when they don't come true.
I agree that flexibility is important, but cover all of the expectations both good and bad for the most flexibility. Planning 30 years has nothing to do with reality and isn't useful. It's just wishful thinking. And I enjoy that. The only thing it does is motivating you to act. To try and reach that dream.

About embracing/accepting vs acting/changing something I did a little thoughtsession yesterday. These were my results:
The past and the present cannot be changed. Thus accept them. Embrace them.
The future can be changed, but shouldn't always be changed.
Sometimes it's best to accept your future, but sometimes it's best to take charge and try to change your future. [MENTION=12118]Chalti[/MENTION] is currently accepting her future of not being with this ENTP guy and not taking charge by asking him out for a date.
This is a decision she's currently asking for advice on here. The cost/gain equation looks like this:
Benefits of accepting: No embarrassment. No rejection. No emotional risk.
Downsides of accepting: Not being with the ENTP guy. Not knowing if he likes you.
Benefits of acting: Potentially being with ENTP guy OR knowing that he isn't interested.
Downsides of acting: Possible embarrassment, rejection or emotional risk.

Add these together with common sense and you know what to decide. Note that this list is more about the form and process and less about the content. I don't exactly know what benefits and downsides certain behaviour has for you. Maybe you're never embarrassed or maybe there's something I missed.

I find that style of thinking a bit linear and binary. Act: embarrassment, risk Not Act: no embarrassment, no risk.

This is not what I consider "risk" when I'm assessing a business model or choosing something for investment. If we spent all our lives avoiding emotional pain then we might as well become crazy cat people.

There is a certain amount of risk involved in everything that we do, we have to make extrapolations based on needs vs wants.

I don't see what the big deal is in finding out more about a romantic interest and taking it slowly. To me, there is no risk involved in that. Simply human interaction.

 

[Erlian]

I find that style of thinking a bit linear and binary. Act: embarrassment, risk Not Act: no embarrassment, no risk.

This is not what I consider "risk" when I'm assessing a business model or choosing something for investment. If we spent all our lives avoiding emotional pain then we might as well become crazy cat people.

There is a certain amount of risk involved in everything that we do, we have to make extrapolations based on needs vs wants.

I don't see what the big deal is in finding out more about a romantic interest and taking it slowly. To me, there is no risk involved in that. Simply human interaction.

You are correct. I used risk wrong. There is always risk involved, simply because you don't know the future.
I'm not at all saying we should avoid emotional pain. I just stated that emotional pain is a downside of some actions. I'm all in for loving deeply and getting hurt a lot, instead of not loving and not getting hurt. I'm just saying that it's something you can consider.

But like I said there is always risk, also in human interaction.
If you have a goal and you try to reach that goal, there is the risk that it will fail. So if you take it slowly and find out more about his romantic interest, you might fail. It's a risk. It's definitely better, like you say, to take it slowly so you only risk a little bit every moment instead of fully confessing your love right away and risking it all in one moment.

 

[sassafras]

Figure out what you want from him. As I've said before, usually we're drawn to people because they either compliment who we are or represent something within ourselves that we think we lack/secretly covet. Do you want to see if a relationship might work out between you? Do you want to be friends? Do you want to just admire him from afar? Do you want to stop admiring him? What is it?

Once you've decided what you want, you can frame it and take action.

Don't waste away on a crush for too long. It's not only an awful tax on your time and emotional resources, it never makes you feel good to be fickle and indecisive. There's nothing cool about playing the tortured Byronic hero. Do something or leave it alone

 

[HunterO]

You are correct. I used risk wrong. There is always risk involved, simply because you don't know the future.
I'm not at all saying we should avoid emotional pain. I just stated that emotional pain is a downside of some actions. I'm all in for loving deeply and getting hurt a lot, instead of not loving and not getting hurt. I'm just saying that it's something you can consider.

But like I said there is always risk, also in human interaction.
If you have a goal and you try to reach that goal, there is the risk that it will fail. So if you take it slowly and find out more about his romantic interest, you might fail. It's a risk. It's definitely better, like you say, to take it slowly so you only risk a little bit every moment instead of fully confessing your love right away and risking it all in one moment.

I think instead of focusing on the negatives of emotional pain, one should focus on the positives of experiencing emotional pain. In our current era, we are led to believe that any sort of feeling outside of "content" is not normal and in need of psychiatric treatment. However, the entire range of human emotions is what leads us to develop personal standards of ethics, morality, philanthropy.

Taking no action is also a hurtful act- either one of cowardice or avoidance. That is something that one must live with for the rest of one's life, which will cause a deeper source of pain that becomes seeded and grows out of control via one's psyche through old age.

There is nothing wrong with failing at something. No one wins all the time, and certainly one can't learn by always winning. If we have the philosophy that failing is a type of learning experience, then there is always something that will happen in our favour. However, if one always thinks he or she will fail- the mind is a powerful thing- if you envision it, it WILL eventually happen. That is why people stress a positive mindset- a negative mindset attracts those around us who will ensure our failure.

 

[Erlian]

I think instead of focusing on the negatives of emotional pain, one should focus on the positives of experiencing emotional pain. In our current era, we are led to believe that any sort of feeling outside of "content" is not normal and in need of psychiatric treatment. However, the entire range of human emotions is what leads us to develop personal standards of ethics, morality, philanthropy.

Taking no action is also a hurtful act- either one of cowardice or avoidance. That is something that one must live with for the rest of one's life, which will cause a deeper source of pain that becomes seeded and grows out of control via one's psyche through old age.

There is nothing wrong with failing at something. No one wins all the time, and certainly one can't learn by always winning. If we have the philosophy that failing is a type of learning experience, then there is always something that will happen in our favour. However, if one always thinks he or she will fail- the mind is a powerful thing- if you envision it, it WILL eventually happen. That is why people stress a positive mindset- a negative mindset attracts those around us who will ensure our failure.

I fully agree with you.

I listed it because I think that most people (sub)consciously take it in account when they make such a decision. I listed it because it exists. Whether that's a good thing or not.
Humans are generally risk avoidant, especially subconsciously. It's good in many occasions, but certainly not in some.