INTfJ vs. INFtJ | INFJ Forum

INTfJ vs. INFtJ

Discussion in 'The INFJ Typology' started by Gaze, Nov 18, 2009.

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  1. Gaze

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    If you've been typed by the MBTI as INFJ, but yet you have cognitive or other types of mental tests which type you as INTJ, it can be a little bit confusing.

    So, for those who have high Ni + Ti cognitively, and/or typing INFJ on personality tests, how do you reconcile this disparity in cognitive/personality typing?

    Those who're versed in typing and functions are free to respond but please explain in simple terms, and avoid overuse of typological vocab.
     
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    #1 Gaze, Nov 18, 2009
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2009
  2. IndigoSensor

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    As far as telling the difference between INFJ and INTJ, it comes down to the placement if Fe, Te, Ti, and Fi. If someone is on the border between INFJ and INTJ, they often have mulled results when it comes to the feeling and thinking functions. More often then not, a disclear order will appear. Such as having Fi and Ti being above Fe and Te. Then it becomes hard to pull the two apart. The deciding factor though, really comes down to Fe and Te. One of the best litmus tests I would suggest is sorting out if the thinking side of the person is oriented more around the self; internal processing, trying to make inner feelings logical, ordering thoughts and patterns out for themselves in the mind. Then seeing if the the feeling side is more directed externally; examining what others are thinking, trying to please everyone, bending ones confort zone to make people feel confortable. If these two cases are in place, the person is INFJ.
     
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  3. VH

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    MBTI:
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    Enneagram:
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    Ni = knowing the answer without knowing how or why.

    Depending on INFJ, or INTJ, you'll have one of the following sets...

    INFJ:
    Fe = focusing on the communal well being and care for others.
    Ti = knowing how things work and focusing on the details.

    INTJ:
    Te = knowing how things relate and focusing on the big picture.
    Fi = focusing on you you feel and what you think is right.

    INFJ males usually have a very strong Ti, and INTJ females usually have a very strong Fi. This is likely due to cultural expectations of T and F, but may be as simple as biochemistry. The end result is a heightened tertiary function in both cases. I think this is what is causing your confusion.
     
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  4. Raccoon Love

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    I seen to have more problem with INFJ/INTP. This is mainly do to the fact that my Te is not that great, however, my Ti and Ne both being relatively high creates this confusion. My typical order of cognitive functions goes Ni>Ti>Ne>Fe>Fi>Te>Si>Se. As you can see it can get a bit confusing, this changes also with my mood and I often score anything INXX really. I know I'm a I since well I always score high on introverted functions, and the introvert description fits me. I know I'm a N since both of my N functions are high, My thinking and Feeling varies a lot however, which makes me go into INXX since the cognitive functions change.
     
  5. OP
    Gaze

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    Thanks guys for responding. It helps, but Von Hase, with INTJ females, how does higher Fi manifest? Can they be mistaken then for an INFj?
     
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  6. Faye

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    If you have high Ni and Ti, you're probably INFJ as opposed to INTJ. It is a question of Fe and Ti or Te and Fi.

    It is easy to mistake INFJs for INTJs, but once you recognize the functions you'll see they are different internally (unless all their T functions and F functions really are close).

    I've seen Fi in INTJ females manifest in their preferences for (okay, it is mean to say it, but obsessions) with things they enjoy (usually various forms of media) and their deep opinions on various issues (often scientific). The same, however, goes for male INTJs. When INTJ females engage others (or INTJs in general), they're generally perceived as much colder than they actually are. You don't mistake Fi for Fe (unless you don't understand the functions at all). You see either Te or Fe, and they are very distinct. INTJs are generally perceived to be much less caring than they actually are.

    Also, because of how society is, many INTJ women don't have the guts/have been socialized to keep their strong opinions and judgments to themselves. They still want people to like them and to fit in somehow, but it is difficult for them.
     
  7. daydreamer

    daydreamer Permanent Fixture

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    I'm high in I and pretty high in J. But my F and T are exactly the same, it can be kind of confusing. Both are pretty accurate about me.
     
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  8. OP
    Gaze

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    The way we behave may be very different from the way we think. And this is why this is so confusing. I doubt that i appear INTJ online, but in person, i demonstrate INTJ characteristics, but under the social pressure to conform, i appear more outwardly sensitive and "nicer" because it's what's expected.

    I identify more with the above descriptions, but yet identify with the INFJ typology.

    This fits. I was never someone who got along with everyone. I suppress quite a bit to get along, so this alone makes it difficult to know. If i was more direct about feelings or beliefs, then it would become a problem. But i'm very sensitive (highly so). But I was very logical in my thinking in the past. i was also quite judgemental, holding very strongly to feelings, etc. Many believed i was too serious, not lively or outgoing enough.

    Now, i only mention this to give some background to this discussion. I think Fi is something i developed later on (only recently) because of job requirements.

    But as you get older, you learn to sacrifice your own personal wants and desires more easily for the benefit of others.

    Now, anyone who has these questions about their functions, feel free to post.
     
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    #8 Gaze, Nov 18, 2009
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2009
  9. OP
    Gaze

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    Here are the results of a test posted here which i completed recently

    Mental Muscle Diagran Indicator
    http://www.teamtechnology.co.uk/mmdi/questionnaire/
     
    1st try

    INTJ - 74%
    ENTJ - 70% (????????????)
    INFJ - 66%
    INTP - 66%

    Type Dynamics Results
    Ni - 24
    Te - 22
    Ti - 21
    Ne - 18
    Si - 17
    Fe - 14
    Fi - 13
    Se - 11

    2nd try

    INTJ - 79%
    INFJ - 70%
    INTP - 69%
    ENTJ - 68%
     
    Type Dynamics Results
    Ni - 26
    Te - 22
    Ti - 21
    Ne - 18
    Si - 17
    Fi - 14
    Fe - 13
    Se - 9

    The Fe/Fi and Te/Ti are ???
     
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    #9 Gaze, Nov 18, 2009
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2009
  10. IndigoSensor

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    That is definitely an INTJ result set, on both accounts. Actually, those are classic INTJ results.
     
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  11. OP
    Gaze

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    Just to complicate or even clarify things, here is a test i took a few weeks back:


    Cognitive Processes Test / Level of Development (Preference, Skill and Frequency of Use)


    1st try

    extraverted Sensing (Se) ***************** (17.8)
    limited use
    introverted Sensing (Si) **************************** (28.2)
    average use
    extraverted Intuiting (Ne) ******************************* (31.2)
    good use
    introverted Intuiting (Ni) ************************************ (36.2)
    excellent use
    extraverted Thinking (Te) **************************** (28.1)
    average use
    introverted Thinking (Ti) ***************************** (29.1)
    average use
    extraverted Feeling (Fe) ********************************* (33.3)
    good use
    introverted Feeling (Fi) ************************************ (36.9)

    2nd try

    Cognitive Process
    Level of Development (Preference, Skill and Frequency of Use)
    extraverted Sensing (Se)
    ******************** (20)
    limited use
    introverted Sensing (Si)
    ************************* (25.2)
    average use
    extraverted Intuiting (Ne)
    ***************************** (29.2)
    average use
    introverted Intuiting (Ni)
    ******************************** (32.2)
    good use
    extraverted Thinking (Te)
    ****************************** (30.2)
    good use
    introverted Thinking (Ti)
    ****************************** (31)
    good use
    extraverted Feeling (Fe)
    ******************************* (31.2)
    good use
    introverted Feeling (Fi)
    ***************************************** (41.2)
    excellent use
     
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    #11 Gaze, Nov 18, 2009
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2009
  12. Solar Empath

    Solar Empath Community Member

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    I don't think that anything is proven about typology besides the first 2 preferred functions

    INFJ = introverted intuition + extroverted feeling preference
    INTJ - introverted intuition + extroverted thinking preference

    From the charts Von Hase has called up and had us produce, the rest is just trying to shoehorn systems together.

    I'd like to see if NTs overall prefer all N and T the way that NFs prefer N and F.

    EDIT: That chart says you are INFJ with heavy introversion.
     
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    #12 Solar Empath, Nov 18, 2009
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2009
  13. OP
    Gaze

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    The point is to understand the disparities across tests, understand the relationship between personality and cognition used these varying test results. This is not simply about confirming type, but understanding the complexity of typing.

    And online personalities are not the best indicators of personality.

    I've only posted my results from thses tests as an example or point of reference for the discussion.

    This is an open discussion.
     
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    #13 Gaze, Nov 18, 2009
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2009
  14. Raccoon Love

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    where can I find this chart? I also have a problem with my functions and don't really know..
     
  15. OP
    Gaze

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    #15 Gaze, Nov 18, 2009
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2009
  16. Raccoon Love

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    extraverted Sensing (Se) ********* (9.1)
    unused

    introverted Sensing (Si) ********* (9.3)
    unused

    extraverted Intuiting (Ne) ***************************************** (41.6)
    excellent use


    introverted Intuiting (Ni) ************************************************ (48.9)
    excellent use


    extraverted Thinking (Te) ************************** (26.7)
    average use

    introverted Thinking (Ti) ****************************************** (42.5)
    excellent use


    extraverted Feeling (Fe) ******************************* (31.5)
    good use

    introverted Feeling (Fi) ******************************* (31.2)
    good use

    Summary Analysis of Profile

    By focusing on the strongest configuration of cognitive processes, your pattern of responses most closely matches individuals of this type: INTP
    Lead (Dominant) Process
    Introverted Thinking (Ti): Gaining leverage (influence) using a framework. Detaching to study a situation from different angles and fit it to a theory, framework or principle. Checking for accuracy. Using leverage to solve the problem.

    Support (Auxilliary) Process
    Extraverted Intuiting (Ne): Exploring the emerging patterns. Wondering about patterns of interaction across various situations. Checking what hypotheses and meanings fit best. Trusting what emerges as you shift a situation’s dynamics.

    If these cognitive processes don't fit well then consider these types: ENTP, or INFJ

    wow

    weird results I got...This is the weirdest one yet.

    Ni>Ti>Ne>Fe>Fi>Te>Si>Se

    the order has not changed but this time it shows both INTP and INFJ in options which is weird since INTP and INFJ both have 2 different letters..you would expect INFP...
     
    #16 Raccoon Love, Nov 18, 2009
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2009
  17. VH

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    MBTI:
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    I try not to confuse INFJ and INFj (MBTI vs Socionics).

    INTJ females can mistype as INFJs very easily on the MBTI because it is a test that measures only T vs F preference without taking into account Ti/Te or Fi/Fe. Considering that both INFJs and INTJs have F and T functions as their secondary and auxiliary, they're likely to have narrow results even when they don't overestimate themselves. Add in a little gender bias and you have a mistype.

    For example:

    A standard INTJ result on the MBTI would look like this...

    I variable%
    N 50% ish
    T 25% ish
    J variable%

    While a standard INFJ result on the MBTI would look like this...

    I variable%
    N 50% ish
    F 25% ish
    J variable%

    This is because in both INTJs and INFJs, Ni is dominant and compared to the inferior function Se, and trumps it quite clearly. However, in both cases the distinction between T and F functions isn't as clear because it is a comparison of secondary and auxiliary function preference. A little bit of bias (+/- 12.5% on a test that has less than 20 questions per axis means 3 questions biased), and suddenly the typical 25% lean is a -2.5% lean.

    This is how the MBTI can mistype INTJ females and INFJ males.
     
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  18. OP
    Gaze

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    This is interesting and very helpful.
     
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    #18 Gaze, Nov 18, 2009
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2009
  19. OP
    Gaze

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    But how would the INFj in socionics correlate with INFJ in MBTI? If it's possible to make a comparison, what type would the INFj in Socionics be in MBTI?
     
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  20. gloomy-optimist

    gloomy-optimist Used to live here

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    Well, I look at it this way: if the tests don't necessarily help clarify, look at the theory in action.

    The difference I see between INFJs and INTJs in real life is subtle, but very apparent once you know how to find it. I have a very good friend who is an INTJ female with a strong F function, and I am an INFJ female with a strong T function. She can be very caring, very emotionally attached to her friends, very feminine. I can be very impartial, very emotionally distant to many people, and less girly.

    How to spot the difference? Well, it's a matter of reacting on a wider scale in everyday life. Yeah, she really loves her friends and all that, but she also has no problem about making fun of people she doesn't know too well. Misfortune of others doesn't really provoke her. She doesn't much give a damn about what others do unless it affects her, and she laughs at some pretty brutal things. Although she doesn't like blatant cruelty, she doesn't much care about the little miseries of normal people.

    For me, I am really tolerant of others, and it bothers me when someone is being bullied. I feel bad when people laugh at others' expense a lot of the time. I am often accommodating, and even when I am impartial, I care about the well-being of people and their social situations. I easily empathize with others and their hardships.

    Think about what is your most natural response to things. Cognitive function tests are great, but sometimes when they are close, you have to really examine your reaction in a real-world setting.
     
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