Intense Relationships

[Altruistic Muse]

I'm at a stage where I'm trying to work out exactly what I need in a relationship. My most recent long term relationship, which was not particularly happy towards the end, was incredibly intense with a deeply felt love and need for eachother. It was a long distance relationship and I remember physically aching when he wasn't there sometimes. He was an INTJ and we had an incredible connection. However, tangled up with all the other problems here, one of them was this feeling of "needing" someone else. It was both a blessing and a curse to feel this attached, and actually after the break up I decided that I would avoid it in the future, as a threat to my independence. The thing is though, having tried the laid back relationships, I'm thinking maybe I thrive on that level of intensity, even with the bad effects it brings. Can anyone else relate to this need to be involved with someone completely heart and soul, but resenting it simultaneously? And are there any people who have ended up in long term relationships with someone calmer, more laid back and independent (maybe INTPs or INFPs) but still with the intellectual connection needed?

 

[acd]

Can anyone else relate to this need to be involved with someone completely heart and soul, but resenting it simultaneously?

Hmm I posted a thread about this a few days ago! Yes, I can relate to this..

I'm thinking maybe I thrive on that level of intensity, even with the bad effects it brings.

I think I do, too. I feel unless it's passionate and fervent, it's not really love.. But the bad effect it brings is the fear of losing it all, so I begin to prepare for the worst. It's almost easier for me to deal with a break-up than it is to be in a relationship. Isn't that sick? But now that I'm aware of this self-fulfilling prophesy thing I do-- I'm going to work to break that curse.

My thread title was called, "Why is love sad?" And Silently Honest, in his oh-so-concise wise man way, edited it and posted "Why is your love so sad?" I've been thinking about that these past few days. Love doesn't have to be sad. I don't think that you and I and people like us experience it so intensely that it hurts us. I don't think our pain is as noble as that. There are other issues there, but issues that can be solved none the less. Because love shouldn't hurt. Love should be the absence of pain and fear and needing. I have this sneaking suspicion that love should not hurt and cause fear.

 

[Altruistic Muse]

Hmm I posted a thread about this a few days ago! Yes, I can relate to this..


Oh sorry, I must've missed that one! I know what you mean about the finding it easier to deal with break ups. While I was going out with my ex, when things were going well, I used to, unwittingly, create problems, at one point nearly leading to us breaking up early on. I did this twice i think actually. I am the master of self sabotage. It's easier for me than being happy, I'm not entirely sure why. The passionate relationship does make you feel alive but at the same time I hate feeling dependent on anyone! And giving yourself over that much you end up feeling like this, like you can't live without them, and I never want to feel like that again, I think its really unhealthy for me anyway. I'm just working on striking a balance somehow...

 

[Bored Now]

Shit.. I can tell you exactly why I'm crazy in love.

When I was 15, my dad told me I'd never be able to keep a man happy for more than a month or two. After that I'd just ruin his life because there was something in me that brought out the worst in men. Brought out possessiveness and lunacy and pain.

"It's a good thing you're pretty enough and a good cook or you'd be an old maid for sure. If you can keep your mouth shut long enough, you might be ok for a little while longer. You're too smart. Men like softer, gentler things than you. Love is for the weak anyway. You're better off "

-My Dad's apology for telling me I'm toxic

Then my first timid romantic interactions proved him true. I'm not afraid so much of being in pain as much as causing it. I'm the Lennie Small of hearts. I just want to stroke them but I usually end up breaking them. Whatever, I found my happiness for now. He was wrong....mostly.

 

[acd]

Oh sorry, I must've missed that one! I know what you mean about the finding it easier to deal with break ups. While I was going out with my ex, when things were going well, I used to, unwittingly, create problems, at one point nearly leading to us breaking up early on. I did this twice i think actually. I am the master of self sabotage. It's easier for me than being happy, I'm not entirely sure why. The passionate relationship does make you feel alive but at the same time I hate feeling dependent on anyone! And giving yourself over that much you end up feeling like this, like you can't live without them, and I never want to feel like that again, I think its really unhealthy for me anyway. I'm just working on striking a balance somehow...

No, I am so glad that you posted this. When I posted, I was hoping to find someone who went through it too, just to see that I'm not totally alone on this. You aren't either.

I think that when we self-sabotage, we feel we have control over ourselves and our emotions. We get to choose what happens next. Makes perfect sense in relationships, considering the point of love is to allow yourself to grow vulnerable with another... to fully trust them with your emotions and so on.. When you allow yourself to be vulnerable, you are giving up a great degree of control.

I think that the only reason any of us feel like we can't live without anyone else (in a romantic relationship) is because we are not whole people, we haven't allowed ourselves to be whole. I go through phases where I think: Ok, I am whole and I got this! Nothing can hurt me. Then time goes on and I realize I'm not completely whole, because I find myself needing from another to maintain my happiness.

It's all control. It's all bullshit control. Self-sabotage and the dependance are all control issues we have to overcome. But where do they come from? So many of these issues are buried so deep in our consciousness and we are in denial of them. The only thing to do is face our issues and engage in an inner battle for Self.

Shit.. I can tell you exactly why I'm crazy in love.

When I was 15, my dad told me I'd never be able to keep a man happy for more than a month or two. After that I'd just ruin his life because there was something in me that brought out the worst in men. Brought out possessiveness and lunacy and pain.

"It's a good thing you're pretty enough and a good cook or you'd be an old maid for sure. If you can keep your mouth shut long enough, you might be ok for a little while longer. You're too smart. Men like softer, gentler things than you. Love is for the weak anyway. You're better off "

-My Dad's apology for telling me I'm toxic

Then my first timid romantic interactions proved him true. I'm not afraid so much of being in pain as much as causing it. I'm the Lennie Small of hearts. I just want to stroke them but I usually end up breaking them. Whatever, I found my happiness for now. He was wrong....mostly.

Nickey, as eloquent as ever. That is awful what your father did to you. He doesn't know a thing. My mom did the same to me. She always told me I'd end up alone because I was unbearable.

 

[Altruistic Muse]

No, I am so glad that you posted this. When I posted, I was hoping to find someone who went through it too, just to see that I'm not totally alone on this. You aren't either.

I think that when we self-sabotage, we feel we have control over ourselves and our emotions. We get to choose what happens next. Makes perfect sense in relationships, considering the point of love is to allow yourself to grow vulnerable with another... to fully trust them with your emotions and so on.. When you allow yourself to be vulnerable, you are giving up a great degree of control.

I think that the only reason any of us feel like we can't live without anyone else (in a romantic relationship) is because we are not whole people, we haven't allowed ourselves to be whole. I go through phases where I think: Ok, I am whole and I got this! Nothing can hurt me. Then time goes on and I realize I'm not completely whole, because I find myself needing from another to maintain my happiness.

It's all control. It's all bullshit control. Self-sabotage and the dependance are all control issues we have to overcome. But where do they come from? So many of these issues are buried so deep in our consciousness and we are in denial of them. The only thing to do is face our issues and engage in an inner battle for Self.

I do feel less alone now, thank you . Yes I do believe it lies in me, because it happens everytime. I've often pondered it, and concluded that maybe I'm a bit commitmentphobic but at the same time i have such a great capacity to love and what I ultimately want to is to find one guy for life and settle down, so this makes me think well why would I of all people be afraid of it! I think I don't like the responsibility of someone else depending on me not to hurt them. This scares me more than being hurt by someone. I think you're right about the control side of things. I do this whenever anything stresses me out, try to convert it into something that's easier to control. I used to have anxiety attacks quite a lot and I'd be sick, maybe so that it'd cover up the feeling of inadequacy or fear, and take my mind off it, and also people can't be angry with a sick person. It was a diversion tactic, subconsciously, I reckon. I'm glad I've sorted that one now. Wow, as i write I realise how unhinged I sound! I think some of these things come with being too young to start with to take on someone else's problems (I always always go for guys that have a tonne of baggage, even if they seem worry free to start with- the exception is the guy i am seeing now, and actually that feels a bit odd for me, to have someone who's not leaning on me!).

 

[acd]

maybe I'm a bit commitmentphobic but at the same time i have such a great capacity to love and what I ultimately want to is to find one guy for life and settle down, so this makes me think well why would I of all people be afraid of it!

Hmmm ditto!

I think we'll figure all this out. Let me know how it goes for you!

 

[Tutti Frutti]

I was in a relationship where this guy just fell so hard and fast for me, and it became really intense. He had what I like to call an "unconditional" love for me. No matter how bad i treated him, he still, even today, never seems to let go or give up on me. He won't stop believing that we still have a chance to make it work. On the other hand, I loved him, but not as much. Just simply loved him. I didn't really show it externally, being an INFJ, but he really showed me, and it was uneven. His level of love for me was above my level for him. I'm not with him now because we have had several break-up-and-get-back-togethers, but he doesn't like it. He always wants to take another chance, when I can see it's become dysfunctional, and although I love him in my own way, we can't be together.

He becomes so attracted and addicted to me that it becomes very intense, and my whole life just blows up whenever he enters back into it. It's so hard, I'm even finding it hard right now, but it has to happen. I've decided I need someone who is balanced and rational. Maybe you need to decide on whether you want someone with that level of intensity, and whether it is either realistic or it is based on fantasy, and go from there.

Rememeber that INFJs tend to focus on fantasy rather than reality.

 

[Altruistic Muse]

I was in a relationship where this guy just fell so hard and fast for me, and it became really intense. He had what I like to call an "unconditional" love for me. No matter how bad i treated him, he still, even today, never seems to let go or give up on me. He won't stop believing that we still have a chance to make it work. On the other hand, I loved him, but not as much. Just simply loved him. I didn't really show it externally, being an INFJ, but he really showed me, and it was uneven. His level of love for me was above my level for him. I'm not with him now because we have had several break-up-and-get-back-togethers, but he doesn't like it. He always wants to take another chance, when I can see it's become dysfunctional, and although I love him in my own way, we can't be together.

He becomes so attracted and addicted to me that it becomes very intense, and my whole life just blows up whenever he enters back into it. It's so hard, I'm even finding it hard right now, but it has to happen. I've decided I need someone who is balanced and rational. Maybe you need to decide on whether you want someone with that level of intensity, and whether it is either realistic or it is based on fantasy, and go from there.

Rememeber that INFJs tend to focus on fantasy rather than reality.

Hmm, good advice, this all makes sense. I think you're right, I think maybe I should be more open to analysing things logically and not going on my feelings sometimes. It's all very well saying that I "need" intensity but at the same time is this ever going to be a healthy desire? Perhaps not. There is something very refreshing about someone who sees things rationally and make decisions based on black and white. I'm glad you're sorting out your situation!

 

[yepunsarang]

Hahaha. Intense relationships...I think that's what i've been made for. I mean, hello! I'm an intense person. Ah well~ But Nicola Jane, you're right about that---you've got to sometimes be logical about your emotions or it'll control you, and that feeling is really icky. I think this is a particularly hard issue for INFJs cause we like order, but we are very feeling.

 

[Tutti Frutti]

Well, this morning my ex tried to ring me several times and I have heaps of msgs from him on my phone at about 8am! I mean, what am I to do with that? He becomes so desperate about it all, and it's not like I'm getting married to anyone soon or something!


It's hard to know what to do with all of this. I'm happy you've made me think about "intense" relationships, as now I can see, I'm always in this boat! It's so hard! And, to do with liking order but are very feeling as yepunsarang said above, that makes it soo much harder too! Should I give in and go with my feelings? Or do what's right and try soo hard to get over it?

 

[Shai Gar]

ah, but if you get into any sort of relationship, or meet anyone, which can happen at any time, he'll be shit out of luck. because that can turn to a relationship which can turn to marriage.

 

[anica]

I seem alive only when involved in intense relationships. I've had 15 years of a laidback, loving relationship and while we have a deep emotional bond as well as a history I treasure, it's not enough for me. Still, I don't let go of it. Sometimes I think I should make a clean break in hopes she can find happiness elsewhere, but I don't. Now I'm also involved in an intense relationship with a man with whom, for the first time, I have been able to hang onto my sense of self. I wonder at times if this is made possible by the 15 years of unconditional love from the woman I've lived with and made my home. I love her but there's just no passion and I need passion as much as I need air, food, water.

 

[acd]

I seem alive only when involved in intense relationships. I've had 15 years of a laidback, loving relationship and while we have a deep emotional bond as well as a history I treasure, it's not enough for me. Still, I don't let go of it. Sometimes I think I should make a clean break in hopes she can find happiness elsewhere, but I don't. Now I'm also involved in an intense relationship with a man with whom, for the first time, I have been able to hang onto my sense of self. I wonder at times if this is made possible by the 15 years of unconditional love from the woman I've lived with and made my home. I love her but there's just no passion and I need passion as much as I need air, food, water.

Are you currently involved with a man and a woman at the same time? Am I reading this correctly? I've only met one person in real life who was living with and romantically involved with another man and a woman.

I don't feel alive only when I'm in intense relationships. I have to admit that I feel most alive when I am single because I feel like I am constantly on some sort of trip. I just feel very unrestricted and self-aware. Not to say that I think it's an either/or thing for me, though. I'm working on being unrestricted and self-aware whether I'm in a relationship or not..


Now, if the relationship is not intense at all, I don't feel like I'm in a relationship.. But the thing I've read, and they say it's a good thing about INFPs, is that we automatically put our SO on a pedastool and make things intense if it's not.

 

[kalicy]

I have intensity, but it doesn't need an object or another person to fulfill it. It's just me. Love too. I am these things, and think everyone else is too. I think it's not very rational or sensible to think that "I NEED this or that realationship, person or stituation" in order to be passionate or in order to be love - it's just a part of what we naturally are.

It makes no sesne to me to put yourself at the whims and notions of your fears and feelings of neediness, for then you are not in your own control of your own mind-heart. This mindheart of the human is soooo powerful, so ingenious, so creative, so free-spirited. Who would want to put neediness of this or that before just being happy and enjoying every moment? Every moment has a newness a freshness, and is a new one that you have never lived nor experienced before.

 

[Hotherym]

I'm at a stage where I'm trying to work out exactly what I need in a relationship. My most recent long term relationship, which was not particularly happy towards the end, was incredibly intense with a deeply felt love and need for eachother. It was a long distance relationship and I remember physically aching when he wasn't there sometimes. He was an INTJ and we had an incredible connection. However, tangled up with all the other problems here, one of them was this feeling of "needing" someone else. It was both a blessing and a curse to feel this attached, and actually after the break up I decided that I would avoid it in the future, as a threat to my independence. The thing is though, having tried the laid back relationships, I'm thinking maybe I thrive on that level of intensity, even with the bad effects it brings. Can anyone else relate to this need to be involved with someone completely heart and soul, but resenting it simultaneously? And are there any people who have ended up in long term relationships with someone calmer, more laid back and independent (maybe INTPs or INFPs) but still with the intellectual connection needed?

I don't resent mine, except it hurts lethally when it ends, or can hurt horribly when not reciprocated. It definitely doesn't interfere with my individuality, though; I feel it enhances it in some ways. Laid back relationships are no different than just friendships to me.

I've heard INFJs come off as cold. I'm never told I do, unless I'm particularly guarded. Maybe I just haven't learned that way to protect myself, if I ever do. I'm told I'm 'vivacious' and passionate, or I used to be before I became depressed all the damn time.

 

[acd]

I watched this movie called, "Synecdoche, New York" the other day and it made me think of this topic. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synecdoche,_New_York

From what I gleaned of the film, it seemed to suggest that people live in their own little world-- playing the lead role in their own little play in which every person they know becomes a character or an extra.. and we spend our lives obsessed with our eventual demise, and so we alienate ourselves and never truly enjoy or experience anything--even love.

 

[Hotherym]

Hahah, that uplifted me from my depression.

 

[acd]

Hahah, that uplifted me from my depression.

Really? Or are you being sarcastic.. It's hard to tell on the internets.
The movie depressed me for a bit. But I thought about why it depressed me.. and then I figured if that is the way it made me feel about the way I'm living my life--I should change the way I'm living, and live in the moment and not even bother with dread-- and not let dread taint all the beauty and love that I have right now. Then I didn't feel dismal at all!

 

[Hotherym]

Really? Or are you being sarcastic.. It's hard to tell on the internets.
The movie depressed me for a bit. But I thought about why it depressed me.. and then I figured if that is the way it made me feel about the way I'm living my life--I should change the way I'm living, and live in the moment and not even bother with dread-- and not let dread taint all the beauty and love that I have right now. Then I didn't feel dismal at all!

It's not really the movie itself, but the fact I came to basically the same conclusion many years ago on my own. It was one of my existential crises, actually. I think it's just depressing to be reminded, or that someone else has made the effort to illustrate it; it brings it into more stark reality, I guess.

I definitely have watched for it in myself, because I can't stand when it happens. It really causes horrible upset. I don't want to live in fantasy, and I certainly don't want to use people as objects--I connect to them deeply and feel they're a part of myself.

But, no, it wasn't actually uplifting, that was sarcasm.