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Fly Away does have every right to think that, and is valid in thinking so.
INFJs and drug experimentation?
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If you can show me where the validity is in blind hatred, I will applaud you.
I can understand someone hating how someone close to them might be lodged on drugs. But that is no reason to lump all substances and users into the same category. It's an understandable logical leap but nonetheless misguided.
I've had one friend that has OD'd three times- Two of which while he was driving. He's one lucky motherfucker to still be alive(Especially the last two times. Second time, his heart stopped beating for two minutes. The third time, he was an inch away from hypothermia and would have been dead, had my other friends not gone out and looked for him) and I feel thankful for that. But that doesn't change the fact that my friend was being a fucking retard. It wasn't the drugs doing it to him, it was his own ignorance and belligerence. He's not the only one I know that has ended up in a place like that. The people that are close to me that decide to try drugs- I make sure they are around me and they prefer to be around me. My concern is that they do things as safely as possible with someone that is familiar with how it feels and what's going on in their head. Most people don't know how to sit for someone.
That's actually one thing I hate about salvia. My first time, I ended up on a large rock and splitting my arm. I didn't even feel it and had no clue what the hell happened when I came out of the trip. I had two sitters and neither knew what to do. From that point on, I give what I call "The Salvia Speach". I tell them EVERYTHING about it and sitting. You have to understand what will happen. My sitters now usually consist of two sober friends that are strong enough to keep me stationary, on the ground. Did I blame the salvia for splitting my arm? No. It was my fault for not choosing better sitters.
Like many things in life, it takes balance, maturity, knowledge and responsibility to use drugs as safely as possible. If someone takes the proper precautions, amazing, fun and completely safe experiences can be had. The problem is when people think they're invincible and try to take on certain things they ought not to be doing. It's like teen pregnancy. Children trying to do adult things for a cheap thrill and ending up in a bad position. Is sex to be blamed for the pregnancy? No. It was the choices of two human beings.
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PsilocinProject i think that you also have to take into account the fact that drugs affect your brain functions in the long term also, even caffine use over a prolonged amount of time has been shown to affect cognitive ability. i have seen them change people's personalities with long term use and the outcome can be kinda scary. i'm not sure if there is enough research data out there (sensing that you're probably guna demand some from me 
) all i can provide is anecdotal.
you argue your point very well, your level of intelligence would probably permit you to do so with most topics, but you're so young and your mind is not yet developed physically so i would say just keep that in mind. you seem to have it all planned out but like you said yourself, they creep up on you - that i have experienced. you may find yourself with a different veiwpoint in a couple of years.
i am in no way opposed to drug use, it is a personal choice and for some a valuable life experience but i can understand how someone could deride it without ever doing it. i mean you don't have to try pedophilia or mass genocide to have strong feelings against it.... not that i am making comparisons but it's a logical argument and you seem to be trying to fight your corner with logic. to me it seems to be more of an emotional reaction on your part maybe you should ask yourself why you feel you need to defend it so vehemntly and not just accept another point of view. (i don't mean any of this in an agressive manner btw, can be difficult to put that accross while typing ) anyhoo that's my two cents
) all i can provide is anecdotal.you argue your point very well, your level of intelligence would probably permit you to do so with most topics, but you're so young and your mind is not yet developed physically so i would say just keep that in mind. you seem to have it all planned out but like you said yourself, they creep up on you - that i have experienced. you may find yourself with a different veiwpoint in a couple of years.
i am in no way opposed to drug use, it is a personal choice and for some a valuable life experience but i can understand how someone could deride it without ever doing it. i mean you don't have to try pedophilia or mass genocide to have strong feelings against it.... not that i am making comparisons
but it's a logical argument and you seem to be trying to fight your corner with logic. to me it seems to be more of an emotional reaction on your part maybe you should ask yourself why you feel you need to defend it so vehemntly and not just accept another point of view. (i don't mean any of this in an agressive manner btw, can be difficult to put that accross while typing ) anyhoo that's my two centsFly Away is Palestinian and therefore is probably a Muslim. I assume her reasons are religious and shouldn't be criticized for that.
I'm well-aware of the negative effects of most substances, including caffeine. =PPsilocinProject i think that you also have to take into account the fact that drugs affect your brain functions in the long term also, even caffine use over a prolonged amount of time has been shown to affect cognitive ability. i have seen them change people's personalities with long term use and the outcome can be kinda scary. i'm not sure if there is enough research data out there (sensing that you're probably guna demand some from me
And there is enough research data out there to support your point, to an extent. You can't lump all drugs and users together. They all do different things and effect the mind differently, in different doses and based on how heavy the use is. One-time use isn't going to rewire anybody but, as I said, heavy use of any substances is no good(And even moderate or light use of some substances certainly doesn't do the body good).
When I start ranting, I'm usually referring to the Psychedelics. LSD being one of the main ones I go on about. LSD is physically less-harmful than Vitamin C and is impossible to OD on, if you stay in the normal dosage range(100 micrograms-3 milligrams, and 3 milligrams is 30 hits and that's pushing the dose range way beyond what's normally done: 1-10 hits). The only human overdose of LSD that I'm aware of was a man that intravenously injected ~3 grams(300,000 hits of LSD) because he thought it was speed. He died from respiratory failure. God knows what kind of dreams or nightmares he was having while he was unconscious.
I doubt I'll ever change my viewpoint but I've already changed how often I dose. I'm pushing drugs to the side for education. It wouldn't be such a problem if they weren't illegal, but what can you do? I'm not going to jeopardize my future because a few dickheads in Congress decided 30 years ago that I shouldn't have control over my own consciousness. So, I'm hopping off to keep from going to jail until I'm out of college. =D
I didn't see your post as aggressive at all. =Pi am in no way opposed to drug use, it is a personal choice and for some a valuable life experience but i can understand how someone could deride it without ever doing it. i mean you don't have to try pedophilia or mass genocide to have strong feelings against it.... not that i am making comparisons
I could blame my really high Fi but that'd totally be a cop-out. I do get emotionally into it because that's response that's been ingrained into me. In real life, I've run into so many ignorant people, sitting there and drinking a beer, telling me that I shouldn't ever do acid or smoke pot. If I come off as malicious, I assure you, I mean no malice. This is one of the few subjects that I get passionate about because I see the ignorance surrounding it all. And, no, I don't mean ignorance in a condescending light, I'm talking about book-definition ignorance. The state of being completely unaware of the facts about something. Drugs have so much propaganda, misinformation and flat-out lies surrounding them, that it just gets under my skin.
Edit: This is one of the few things I'm this passionate about and it's actually what I'm going to be heading to school for. The first time I heard about Psychopharmacology, I knew it was what I wanted to do for the rest of my life. Researching and studying chemical structures, drugs effects on the mind, neurochemistry, psychology and helping people that need it. It's a passion in more ways than one. :3
I wasn't aware and I never mean to criticize another person's religious beliefs.
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Very eloquent Psilocin. There is a lot of miseducation when it comes to drug use and propaganda as well. All designed to control. Beer and cigarettes kill a lot of people but make a few industries a lot of money. Marijuana is cheap to grow -- it's a weed after all -- so there's no money in making it legal.
Sometimes I wonder if it's possible to eradicate all ignorance. I've decided that the best you can do is offer education and hope people accept. I have faith in knowledge and wisdom, that they are more powerful than ignorance. Truth needs no defendenrs -- truth stands with its own light. It shines of its own accord. And there is no guarantee that we know the truth, either -- we could be just as ignorant as our enemies.
It's a free country and we are all free spirits -- and that includes the freedom to be ignorant. I know I am pretty ignorant and biased about a lot of things myself. I like the saying that you shouldn't point out the speck in the eye of your neighbor without dealing with the beam in your own.
Just wanted to commend your self-awareness with regard to your motivations.
Sometimes I wonder if it's possible to eradicate all ignorance. I've decided that the best you can do is offer education and hope people accept. I have faith in knowledge and wisdom, that they are more powerful than ignorance. Truth needs no defendenrs -- truth stands with its own light. It shines of its own accord. And there is no guarantee that we know the truth, either -- we could be just as ignorant as our enemies.
It's a free country and we are all free spirits -- and that includes the freedom to be ignorant. I know I am pretty ignorant and biased about a lot of things myself. I like the saying that you shouldn't point out the speck in the eye of your neighbor without dealing with the beam in your own.
Just wanted to commend your self-awareness with regard to your motivations.
My father was an alcoholic and died from it; so from the beginning all forms of drugs & other intoxicants; immediately are a turn off for me. Plus I converted to islam. I didn't even like taking my ADD medication when I was little and stopped taking it in middle school; I only take it now if I have a test or I'm struggling in school. I can see, like you said why some people would be curious of it for perhaps valid reasons, but there are always going to be people who start out that way ,and begin to develop addications. And it only takes that one person that gets addicted to destroy their lives and that of their family. I don't mean to sound like someones mother or anything ,but it's the truth.
I agree they have every right to think that, but it certainly doesn't make it valid.IndigoSensor said:
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
If it's for religious reasons, that's another can of worms altogether. I'm not one to step on religious boundaries, so I'll say if that's what this is about, then I respectfully disagree.
You've made some excellent posts, and have far more patience than I do. I get tired of repeating myself to people when they tell me how bad drugs are, even though they likely have no clue what they're talking about.
As a repeat user of Oxycodone, Percocet, hydromorphone/Dilaudid, cocaine, weed, Xanax, Ambien, Vicoden, etc, I'd have to say that it depends entirely on the person using the drug in question. I'm an occasional user of opiates, mainly because I'm rather depressed and they make me feel much better. Am I an addict? Certainly not. My counselor knows of my drug use, and she told me that at that point it was all but required of her to recommend me to rehab (especially after I mentioned having done heroin). Right after saying that, she said that it was her professional opinion that I don't need rehab and she's telling me that so she can write it in her notes to cover her ass.
A single acid trip did so much for me that it could take me years to fully articulate what I learned that day. In a six-hour trip, it brought me out of a depression that had stuck with me for years. It made me realize my value as a person and the things I'm capable of if I simply apply myself. I am very, very defensive when it comes to the subject of LSD, because most people are ill-informed and think that acid is just for fucking around and seeing elves or something. It has a very legitimate place in psychotherapy if the government would bother to do some fucking testing.
(Edit: I mentioned above that I take opiates because I'm depressed, and that acid also brought me out of depression. I took acid about two years ago, and a lot has changed. I very much value what I learned from my trip, but many circumstances have changed since then and it's nearly impossible to be content forever. I just wanted to clear that up.)
The same goes for ecstasy, which was made illegal simply because it's a "drug." Pure MDMA is quite safe at appropriate dosages (i.e. don't do it every day), but the ecstasy tablets that go around on the streets are cut with all kinds of shit. Ketamine, DXM, speed, even heroin. If it were made legal (even if just for medicinal purposes), this could be regulated and the possibility of "overdose" would be exponentially lower. I've also had people use the argument that folks have died on ecstasy. This is true, but 9/10 times it's from someone who dies of heat exhaustion. If you dance all night and don't drink any water, you're not going to be in good shape.
I don't see what the big deal is about cocaine. I've done it a few times, and it seems like way too much money for way too little fun. People get addicted to it way too easily, and I have no idea why.
Really, I feel that the most dangerous drug of all is alcohol. It messes up your liver, makes people drunk (which causes all kinds of problems by itself), and once addiction sets it, it is extremely hard to get off of it.
Smoking weed around other people can make me anxious, so I prefer to do it by myself. I don't see any reason at all why it's illegal, and hopefully the deflating economy will turn the tide of its wavering legality. If a system were devised so that it could be taxed, it would generate MASSIVE revenue for the government, and we all know they need it.
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Actually, I do disagee with her. I see nothing wrong with drugs at all, with the exception of very hard drugs like heroine, or the missuse of over-the-counters.
That being said, I completly understand her side and view of it, and shouldn't be scolded for holding such an opinion. I mean, drugs are controverial for a reason.
Thank you very much.
I think you're more patient than you think. :3
Normally, I'd go into the different revelations I've had with LSD and mushrooms right now but it's late and I'm tired. I'm sure you'll hear them eventually. Haha.
I may have not said much about my LSD revelations but I will give you this tidbit for future reference, in case if someone decides to bring up argument against ecstasy:
I think those numbers speak for themselves.
Edit: A quote from one of my heroes, Terence McKenna:
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The diagram is comparable, yes but the problem is that just because there are more deaths on alcohol and tobacco, does not make it justified to go and use exstacy really. There are actually more downsides to it.
Those who are mentally vulnerble will fall hard, miss the beautiful experience and besides E will fry their brains out...
Those who are mentally vulnerble will fall hard, miss the beautiful experience and besides E will fry their brains out...
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Simply making a point that substances that are deemed as "Bad" aren't as bad as the legal substances. Tobacco kills more people than all of the other illegal and legal substances, combined.
Ecstasy, in moderation, is an amazing tool. Psychologists in the 70's actually called it Empathy and used it in couples counseling, in a proper setting where it was exceptionally useful in a therapeutic manor.
Everything in moderation.
The "frying" and comedown effect isn't as strong when the pill is pure MDMA. The only time that I had a bad comedown from E was the time I popped three pills during the night.
E doesn't put holes in peoples' brains. And serotonin syndrome only happens with excessive use(Weekly, for a period of at least two or three months) or if the person combines ecstasy with an MAOI antidepressant.
Lesen
Neurotoxicity and Serotonin Syndrome is hardly anything to worry about, as long as one takes at least a month break each time after rolling and doesn't dose more than three pills.
Those who are mentally vulnerable shouldn't be taking drugs in the first place, imho. They need to get their shit worked out in sobriety before they start ingesting mind-altering substances. If a person does a drug to actually improve themselves in a therapeutic manor and thinks they can handle it, more power to them. It's what I did and I honestly love life more than anything after LSD, mushrooms and ecstasy. J is another anecdotal example. First and foremost, drugs are tools for self-improvement. There's no problem with taking a drug recreationally, so long as the user has their mind in the right place.
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Actually it kind of does. with prolonged use it damages the production of serotonin in the brain and causes desensitization to the chemical, and slows production.
I don't think you know how resilient brain cells are. Holes don't actually exist. What MDMA does is pump out Serotonin. Serotonin in the brain is built up and released slowly. In prolonged use, the MDMA pumps it all out and forces the raphe nuclei to produce more Serotonin than what would be normally needed. This causes the raphe nuclei to stop producing Serotonin if use is too often, too long- As well as the calcification of the 5-HT receptors to normal amounts of Serotonin.
What you're talking about is Serotonin Syndrome, as I had addressed.
Again: Moderation=Safety
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Yes I can see that, then maye it is unfair to allow such substances but not MDMA.
Believe me it is an amazing tool for self exploration and extreme euphoria. It has had a great impact on disorderly 'introverted' children, couples therapy and PTSD. I acknowledge the greatness of it, although when it comes to neurochemistry there are downsides to it.
Deplete your seratonin/dompamine in the brain - then you are bound to experience fatigue, depression and anxiety the day after.
Three pills ?! Crazy. One is defiently enough although maybe you have buildt up a tollerance? Anyway, studies have shown that E does in fact cause the brain to change.
It actually does not make holes in the brain but it literally fries the brain receptors. The repeated extreme reuptake will cause the seratonin receptors to ware and damage 'fry', which can shut down parts of the brain and will eventually. It has been shown that there grows new brain cells when a person stops taking them.
One month break inbetween is the right way to go because it takes at least four weeks for the brain to restore the seratonin levels. Not because the brain 'repairs' itself or so.
I've heard taking Vitamin C beforehand helps the intensity of the roll and the comedown after. I'm not too sure about it though. Oh, I agree that there are downsides but people tend to over exaggerate said negative side-effects.
Yeah. It was a really good night.
The next two days were fucking Hellish though. I'm not doing that much again. Now you can see why I've taken a good six month break from it. =P And, no, there was no tolerance. Just cheaper pills. I had only rolled twice before that and those were each about two months between each other.
I knew a kid from Tulsa that almost OD'd when he popped seven in one night. He's also one of those people that was too psychologically unstable to be ingesting mind-altering substances. The kid would pop E every weekend. It was his escape, his getaway. He never wanted to return to reality and face the bullshit that's piled up for him. I feel bad for the position he put himself in; however I don't feel pity because he was the one who put himself into that situation with his own choices of complete escapism.
I never denied ecstasy causes changes- It just takes time to get your brain into that condition. Neurochemistry and "wiring" of the brain doesn't just change overnight, 'lest one be takin' MAOIs.
You've done your research! =D
And you named the exact reason why I set a one-month minimum between doses.
Suggested reading about MDMA Neurotoxicity
Also: If you see any research by a Dr. George Ricaurte, dismiss it.
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well pp you seem to have your shit all worked out and i genuniely hope it all goes well for you. i would just have concern for you really, just keep in mind that you are affecting the very tool that you are relying on to keep you in check. i think the reason that people overaggerate the negative effects is mainly due to the fact that most of the people drawn to drug use are drawn for the wrong reasons and don't take the more studied route that you appear to be.
Yeah I can see what you mean, sort of obsessing and melodramatically put forward E as fatal, to infest the mind of the youth.
Furthermore, that sounds horrible. I think it is great that you are using it responsibly =) I knew a guy who went on 5 one time and he rolled like every other day. However, he had sort of ruined his cognition and memory I think, because he could be like uuuuh.... and not make sense. Do not let the drug posses you! ^^
Yaay haha thank you for noticing ^^ I was totally obsessed with understanding how a small little pill could have such an impact on me. I love neurochemistry/-biology. It sparked my interest in psychology and furthermore why I aspire to be a psychiatrist. I really wanted to find out what had happened to me (in school). I loved it, I was on top of the world, miss universe. In the end, I would be calm and nice content and have a happy feeling about life, but then everything turned gloomy grey, as I could not stay up there. Time had me controlled again and I was trapped inside my own inhibitions... again.