I am pretty sure I'm an INFJ. I used to think I might be an INTJ. However, I cry all the time and can't stand science. I do like the beauty of mathematics, but far prefer art and poetry and dance and other humanities. I love mythology. I like Evolution with Kate Beckinsale. However, I also like to be alone a lot. And I am theoretical. I think a lot about social systems and why capitalism is preferable to state capitalism. I try to think about all kinds of things from a theoretical perspective. In the enneagram there is a distinction between four with a five wing, and five with a four wing. I think they can almost be collapsed into one another. I usually test as one of these. I don't think it's possible to be an INFJ and a five. This is because ultimately they don't like to be personal (the fives) and hide themselves, and they are not in touch with their feelings. I am generally right there crying or upset when someone says something that hurts my feelings. I cry instantly or yell. Or at least feel pulverized (I sometimes try not to engage which means that relationship is just plain over because I will hate them and feel paranoid about them -- but I sometimes say I forgive you right away which means I will never forgive you, please die).
Claudio Naranjo in his book Character and Typology suggests that INFJ and INFP are the close equivalents of four. He says INTJ and INTP are the closest MBTI equivalents for fives.
Character of course is an unproven set theory since it relies on self-reporting which is notoriously unscientific and by its very nature -- subjective.
However, I think that Naranjo is right. The notion that a hypersensitive INFJ or INFP can also be a nine (thick-skinned and apathetic) is just crazy. Also, an extremely erudite five who's into doing a math problem for a decade -- how can that person be emotionally sensitive to poetry?
The wing issues were introduced by Riso and Hudson among others, and I feel they have muddied the waters to an extent. Naranjo thought so too. Naturally each new theorist adds their personal touch. But in doing so they might have muddied the original waters to an extent that it makes the clearcut original boundaries uncertain and unclear. Naranjo said fives were anhedonic, while fours were masochistic. There is a clear differentiation there. Do you like the feeling of a bruise, or do you ignore it? I personally, love the feeling of a bruise. I love a skinned knee and to touch the bruised skin and to feel the enflamed nerve endings.
In short, I wish it was clear that an INFJ was also a four. I want translation to be one-to-one. Otherwise, it creates a huge fraying effect when I try to understand my character.
I see people in these threads coming in all types with all kinds of whacky combos such as an enneagram eight and an INFJ. That's just plain weird. Someone who is sensitive and yet bossy? How can you get Winona Ryder and Rosie O'Donnell into the same person? This is either inadequate typing or the system itself is so flexible as to be useless.
Now it may be possible for an INFJ to be a sensitive five. But JGirl says she cries when her boss yells at her. And that it's immediate. That's not what a five would do, is it? I cry too under pressure, and cry immediately. My boss yelled at me today. He didn't mean to yell but it freaked me out. I cried for twenty minutes. I had forgotten to get some paper in. Would a five cry like that? I thought fives were cerebral, and thought things through. I confess I am hard-hearted but it's only to hide the deep feelings that are always there plaguing me, and threatening to make me even more nonsensical and less acceptable as a male than I already am.
I mean men are supposed to be able to fix bayonets and charge the enemy on command! (Bayonets are still used in Afghanistan. Obama was never a soldier and didn't know this.)
Whatever. I think if you are an INFJ you should also necessarily be a four. But I often test as a five, and when I'm dreaming, I am kind of cut off frequently like a five. Last night the building I work in was blown apart in my dream (a house had fallen from Oz and hit it) and my room wasn't hit. I marveled over it and just found it quite lovely that I had survived. But I felt nothing. I just looked curiously at all the newly exposed pipes and liked to see the destruction (I couldn't see any actual carnage because at the time I was the only one in the building except one other person who was also still alive).
Claudio Naranjo in his book Character and Typology suggests that INFJ and INFP are the close equivalents of four. He says INTJ and INTP are the closest MBTI equivalents for fives.
Character of course is an unproven set theory since it relies on self-reporting which is notoriously unscientific and by its very nature -- subjective.
However, I think that Naranjo is right. The notion that a hypersensitive INFJ or INFP can also be a nine (thick-skinned and apathetic) is just crazy. Also, an extremely erudite five who's into doing a math problem for a decade -- how can that person be emotionally sensitive to poetry?
The wing issues were introduced by Riso and Hudson among others, and I feel they have muddied the waters to an extent. Naranjo thought so too. Naturally each new theorist adds their personal touch. But in doing so they might have muddied the original waters to an extent that it makes the clearcut original boundaries uncertain and unclear. Naranjo said fives were anhedonic, while fours were masochistic. There is a clear differentiation there. Do you like the feeling of a bruise, or do you ignore it? I personally, love the feeling of a bruise. I love a skinned knee and to touch the bruised skin and to feel the enflamed nerve endings.
In short, I wish it was clear that an INFJ was also a four. I want translation to be one-to-one. Otherwise, it creates a huge fraying effect when I try to understand my character.
I see people in these threads coming in all types with all kinds of whacky combos such as an enneagram eight and an INFJ. That's just plain weird. Someone who is sensitive and yet bossy? How can you get Winona Ryder and Rosie O'Donnell into the same person? This is either inadequate typing or the system itself is so flexible as to be useless.
Now it may be possible for an INFJ to be a sensitive five. But JGirl says she cries when her boss yells at her. And that it's immediate. That's not what a five would do, is it? I cry too under pressure, and cry immediately. My boss yelled at me today. He didn't mean to yell but it freaked me out. I cried for twenty minutes. I had forgotten to get some paper in. Would a five cry like that? I thought fives were cerebral, and thought things through. I confess I am hard-hearted but it's only to hide the deep feelings that are always there plaguing me, and threatening to make me even more nonsensical and less acceptable as a male than I already am.
I mean men are supposed to be able to fix bayonets and charge the enemy on command! (Bayonets are still used in Afghanistan. Obama was never a soldier and didn't know this.)
Whatever. I think if you are an INFJ you should also necessarily be a four. But I often test as a five, and when I'm dreaming, I am kind of cut off frequently like a five. Last night the building I work in was blown apart in my dream (a house had fallen from Oz and hit it) and my room wasn't hit. I marveled over it and just found it quite lovely that I had survived. But I felt nothing. I just looked curiously at all the newly exposed pipes and liked to see the destruction (I couldn't see any actual carnage because at the time I was the only one in the building except one other person who was also still alive).
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