INFJ + INFP friendships

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INFPishy
So, what's your experience as INFJ with an INFP as a close friend, an INFP with an INFJ as a close friend, or as someone who has observed an INFJ/INFP friendship?
 
One of my long time friends (I have been friends with him since 3rd grade) is an INFP. We get along really well and have a lot of fun when we hang out. However, we are pretty different in the way we interact with others so we do butt heads now and then. He has the impression in his head that I am socially dumb, and it confounds him when I show him otherwise. He just doesn't understand my methods and gets flustered when they work.

Other then that, I am not friends with any other INFP's, and the ones who I were friends with are now gone (I've pushed them away). I largely can not get along well with this type for a number of reasons. It's their pity parties that I just can not deal with. Even developed versions of INFP's I just have a hard time dealing with because we have very different processes and ways of working with the word. It really irratates me.
 
All during highschool my best friend was an INFP. She could be very self centered, which is the strong Fi. We had fun together, she was one of the few N`s in my class so we probably were naturally drawn to eachother just for that reason. INFPs and INFJs are very different though. At the end I was really glad to be rid of her because she had become more and more weird over the years. Part of that weirdnes must have come from her type I can see that now, but I`d like to meet other INFPs to see how a healthy one differs from that. And as IndigoSensor said, pitty parties, yup!
 
Starry Night said:
INFPs and INFJs are very different though.
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Could you explain a little more. What were the differences and how did it affect your friendship.
 
If you look at the functions of INFJs and INFPs youll see that they have not one thats the same: Infjs have Ni Fe Ti Se and Infps have Fi Ne Si Te
For me a big problem I had with her came from her strong Fi. Fi is about what the individual wants and feels, Fe that Infjs use is about others, its much more considerate. So her selfishness bugged me. And she got sorta whacko after some years, like she used to have this huge crush on a guy in our school, he knew about it but didnt want anything from her, that didnt stop her from running after him and calling him though. The entire school knew that she had a crush on him, it was insane. Im not sure if thats an Infp thing though to hold onto someone who clearly is not interested and to get totally obsessive about him. To top it all off: I was on a festival were I met him and we talked. Someone told her that they had seen him and me together and she got so jealous that she told lies about me to our other friends which made them turn away from me. Im not sure though how much of all that is INFPish.
 
People tend to associate Fi with selfishness when its not the case. I believe many of the differences INFP's and INFJ's have are due to simple misunderstandings, due to big difference in cognitive functions. We simply can't stay inside the MBTI box though, just like INFJ's believe certain things about INFP's, INFP's do the same. In the end it just makes the possibility of friendship impossible.
 
It's funny that quite a few typological authors consider INFPs and INFJs to be great match based on the supposed Fi-Fe and Ni-Ne complementary relationship.
 
Obligatory "Any type can get along with any other type, it all depends on the individuals."

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Starry Night said:
If you look at the functions of INFJs and INFPs youll see that they have not one thats the same: Infjs have Ni Fe Ti Se and Infps have Fi Ne Si Te
For me a big problem I had with her came from her strong Fi. Fi is about what the individual wants and feels, Fe that Infjs use is about others, its much more considerate. So her selfishness bugged me. And she got sorta whacko after some years, like she used to have this huge crush on a guy in our school, he knew about it but didnt want anything from her, that didnt stop her from running after him and calling him though. The entire school knew that she had a crush on him, it was insane. Im not sure if thats an Infp thing though to hold onto someone who clearly is not interested and to get totally obsessive about him. To top it all off: I was on a festival were I met him and we talked. Someone told her that they had seen him and me together and she got so jealous that she told lies about me to our other friends which made them turn away from me. Im not sure though how much of all that is INFPish.
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Speaking as an INFP, I can understand the obsessing over people even if they aren't interested, but the public displays of that surprise me. We're usually much too private for that kind of thing. Her spreading rumours about you is just a bog-standard immaturity thing IMO. For an INFP to go against Fi's emphasis on honesty though she must have been in a really unhealthy place emotionally.
 
Peppermint said:
It's funny that quite a few typological authors consider INFPs and INFJs to be great match based on the supposed Fi-Fe and Ni-Ne complementary relationship.
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This is the real question, isn't it? That if we look at the functions, supposedly that friendship should work well, but personality theory often ignores the most important element - the person. At the end, the person has the ability to choose to act according to or against the constraints of their types or functions. To say that Fi is selfish is too strong a generalization. It depends on the situation, relationship, and context.

Sometimes, Fi needs to win out against Fe, and in other cases, vice versa.
 
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I only ever was close to one INFP so I cant be too sure, but no they arent a great match in my opinion. Though you can prove me wrong anytime! :mhula:

Fi is not all bad imo! For instance, its a feeling that often goes deeper than Fe! I like that.
 
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DefectiveCreative said:
Obligatory "Any type can get along with any other type, it all depends on the individuals."

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Speaking as an INFP, I can understand the obsessing over people even if they aren't interested, but the public displays of that surprise me. We're usually much too private for that kind of thing. Her spreading rumours about you is just a bog-standard immaturity thing IMO. For an INFP to go against Fi's emphasis on honesty though she must have been in a really unhealthy place emotionally.
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Yes, I think she wasnt a healthy INFP at all! Thats why I dont want to generalize it too much! And about her feelings being public, she got sorta caught by some class members once and after that she lost all inhibitions.

Can someone explain about Fi then, how it seems selfish but isnt in reality?
 
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I love my INFPs. I've dated several, and was crazy about them. I also have more than a few INFP friends.

We both have the inclination to start inside our heads Ni and Fi dominants. I start with pattern recognition (Ni), and they start with how they feel about it (Fi). In most instances, these two functions perform the same role and often come to the exact same conclusions, and most importantly we both 'just know' or 'just feel' these understandings... unable to verbalize them very well.

We also respect each other because we understand the others' dominant preference. I am definitely a Feeler, and they are definitely Intuitives, making our dominant functions even more congruent to one another. We also step second to our extroverted thought processes. This means we have the same rhythm of thought, going from inward to outward. In other words, there is a LOT of similarity.

However, there are some differences, and most of the time those differences are actually the cause of mutual admiration because we are able to come to similar but different conclusions that more often than not support each others' strengths and cover each others' blind spots.

The problems in the relationship come when our secondary functions conflict with each others' dominant functions. For example, Ni and Fi rarely conflict. Fe and Ne also rarely conflict. However, Fe clashes with Fi, and Ne clashes with Ni. Fe antagonizes Fi by insisting that it focus less on the self, make unwelcome sacrifices, and being dismissive of their feelings. Fi antagonizes Fe by refusing to be affable to the group, demanding autonomy, and insisting upon its own sensibilities. Ne antagonizes Ni by creating too many superfluous possibilities that Ni must then reconcile. Ni antagonizes Ne by constantly shooting down creativity. These factors can cause a lot of friction in the relationship, and from time to time overcome the mutual admiration and curiosity between them.

Side note... I've always noticed one very odd factor with my INFPs that I have trouble describing cognitively, but it is probably a combination of all the elements of each type. This odd issue is a lack of temporal synchronicity. My INFP friends and I have a hard time making our lives synchronize, even when we are trying. It's as if we are on different gears that don't quite fit, and only occasionally align. When they do align, it's great, but there so many unexpected obstacles that come up (and this has been the case with all of my INFP relationships) that seem to be beyond our control that it's quite obvious that this is a factor between the types for some reason.

Anyway, let me just say this one last time. I LOVE my INFPs!
 
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Starry Night said:
Can someone explain about Fi then, how it seems selfish but isnt in reality?
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Fi is all about judging things based on personally defined values (as opposed, of course, to impersonally defined values). Because it's personal, it requires self-reflection, which involves focussing on what the self feels and wants and needs. Fi therefore, is inherently self-interested. In general, this self-interest isn't a problem, in fact it does people good to check in with themselves on what they feel and want and need. Sometimes though, people over-emphasise the importance of what they feel and want and need at the expense of what other people feel and want and need, or what makes logical sense from an impersonal standpoint (the domain of the Thinking functions). That's when self-reflection can turn to self-absorption, and self-interest to selfishness.
 
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VH said:
We both have the inclination to start inside our heads Ni and Fi dominants. I start with pattern recognition (Ni), and they start with how they feel about it (Fi). In most instances, these two functions perform the same role and often come to the exact same conclusions, and most importantly we both 'just know' or 'just feel' these understandings... unable to verbalize them very well.

We also respect each other because we understand the others' dominant preference. I am definitely a Feeler, and they are definitely Intuitives, making our dominant functions even more congruent to one another. We also step second to our extroverted thought processes. This means we have the same rhythm of thought, going from inward to outward. In other words, there is a LOT of similarity.

However, there are some differences, and most of the time those differences are actually the cause of mutual admiration because we are able to come to similar but different conclusions that more often than not support each others' strengths and cover each others' blind spots.

The problems in the relationship come when our secondary functions conflict with each others' dominant functions. For example, Ni and Fi rarely conflict. Fe and Ne also rarely conflict. However, Fe clashes with Fi, and Ne clashes with Ni. Fe antagonizes Fi by insisting that it focus less on the self, make unwelcome sacrifices, and being dismissive of their feelings. Fi antagonizes Fe by refusing to be affable to the group, demanding autonomy, and insisting upon its own sensibilities. Ne antagonizes Ni by creating too many superfluous possibilities that Ni must then reconcile. Ni antagonizes Ne by constantly shooting down creativity. These factors can cause a lot of friction in the relationship, and from time to time overcome the mutual admiration and curiosity between them.
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The last paragraph makes so much sense.
 
Res said:
To say that Fi is selfish is too strong a generalization. It depends on the situation, relationship, and context.
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exactly. Fi is a function, it is a tool you use to make judgements, it is the person who deside to use it in a selfish way or not, like you can do with all functions. Saying that Fi is selfish, for me is the same as saying that a hammer is agressive only because people use it to hammer. I'm getting really tired of these biased judgements.

the difference between Fi and Fe is that Fi bases judgements on personal values while Fe bases judgements on group/social values (the way it is supposed to be). Both can be used to care for others or to get what you want. For instance, a person who uses Fi can really feel the pain someone is going through and therefore can be really compassionate while a person using Fe can deside that that person (even though having problems) isn't acting according to how they should be (being to wheiny for instance) and therefore dismiss them.
So what I mean is, a function is just a tool, it is the person using this tool who chooses for what purpose it is used...


For me a big problem I had with her came from her strong Fi. Fi is about what the individual wants and feels, Fe that Infjs use is about others, its much more considerate. So her selfishness bugged me. And she got sorta whacko after some years, like she used to have this huge crush on a guy in our school, he knew about it but didnt want anything from her, that didnt stop her from running after him and calling him though. The entire school knew that she had a crush on him, it was insane. Im not sure if thats an Infp thing though to hold onto someone who clearly is not interested and to get totally obsessive about him. To top it all off: I was on a festival were I met him and we talked. Someone told her that they had seen him and me together and she got so jealous that she told lies about me to our other friends which made them turn away from me. Im not sure though how much of all that is INFPish.
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I think it can be an INFP thing to get obsessive with someone. I have noticed with myself that I can go down that path easily but I'm rational enough to notice it and try to stop it.
But I don't think it is an INFP thing to show it to the entire world and also not to tell lies about you. I think an INFP can indeed be jealous of you but she would rather suffer in silence. INFP's don't show the entire world there dark sides IMO. Can't it be that she is an ENFP, theyre Ne is stronger than Fi and they have a harder time hiding there emotions.

I'm not so sure whether it is Fi who is responsible for the obsession. If Fi is strong a person has ferm values and that should provide them with a ferm foundation. I think this person rather has a weak Fi and therefore looses herself in Ne's web of fairytale futures with that guy. I'm not sure ofcourse that this is true but when my Fi is strong, I don't get obsessed.


I haven't met anyone I could type as INFJ so I have nothing much to contribute to this tread :becky:
 
DefectiveCreative said:
Fi is all about judging things based on personally defined values (as opposed, of course, to impersonally defined values). Because it's personal, it requires self-reflection, which involves focussing on what the self feels and wants and needs. Fi therefore, is inherently self-interested. In general, this self-interest isn't a problem, in fact it does people good to check in with themselves on what they feel and want and need. Sometimes though, people over-emphasise the importance of what they feel and want and need at the expense of what other people feel and want and need, or what makes logical sense from an impersonal standpoint (the domain of the Thinking functions). That's when self-reflection can turn to self-absorption, and self-interest to selfishness.
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EXCELLENT description.

This perfectly explains the difference between healthy Fi and unhealthy Fi.
 
I've learned some things about Fi and Fe from this thread. I'm starting to understanding the relationship between the functions a little more. Thx for the responses.
 
VH said:
The problems in the relationship come when our secondary functions conflict with each others' dominant functions. For example, Ni and Fi rarely conflict. Fe and Ne also rarely conflict. However, Fe clashes with Fi, and Ne clashes with Ni. Fe antagonizes Fi by insisting that it focus less on the self, make unwelcome sacrifices, and being dismissive of their feelings. Fi antagonizes Fe by refusing to be affable to the group, demanding autonomy, and insisting upon its own sensibilities. Ne antagonizes Ni by creating too many superfluous possibilities that Ni must then reconcile. Ni antagonizes Ne by constantly shooting down creativity. These factors can cause a lot of friction in the relationship, and from time to time overcome the mutual admiration and curiosity between them.
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this really makes so much sense

The rebeling against Fe's 'putting the group first', I do it a lot. I can't be a sheep, I can't just follow the crowd just because of following the crowd. It is because like defective creative said, Fi dominants can only make a good resonable decision when it is been valued within and therefore they need time for self-reflection. Then they can deside that it is in the best interest of themselves AND others to follow the crowd or not. But Fe asks for self-sacrifice because it is expected and I can't make decisions because it is expected, I need to have a real valuable reason because to me, expectations of society or not always in the best interest of others...

the Ne thing I do to, just to frustrate people. I can get really irritated by people with ferm judgements about people/history/behaviour/... especially when they haven't explored all the possible angles to look at it. I would concider that really biased. Therefore I while provide them with all possible view points and try to prove that what they judge negatively can be seen as good. Must drive Ni crazy since Ni hasn't gone through a proses to make there judgements, they just know it, right??
 
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Morgain said:
this really makes so much sense

The rebeling against Fe's 'putting the group first'. I can't be a sheep, I can't just follow the crowd just because of following the crowd. It is because like defective creative said, Fi dominants can only make a good resonable decision when it is been valued within and therefore they need time for self-reflection. Then they can deside that it is in the best interest of themselves AND others to follow the crowd or not. But Fe asks for self-sacrifice because it is expected and I can't make decisions because it is expected, I need to have a real valuable reason because to me, expectations of society or not always very reasonable...
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This^^^ is me, word for word. :D I hate it when people say, you should follow Fe just because. What kind of reason is that?

the Ne thing I do to, just to frustrate people. I can get really irritated by people with ferm judgements about people/history/behaviour/... especially when they haven't explored all the possible angles to look at it. I would concider that really biased. Therefore I while provide them with all possible view points and try to prove that what they judge negatively can be seen as good.
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Yep.
 
Morgain said:
this really makes so much sense

The rebeling against Fe's 'putting the group first', I do it a lot. I can't be a sheep, I can't just follow the crowd just because of following the crowd. It is because like defective creative said, Fi dominants can only make a good resonable decision when it is been valued within and therefore they need time for self-reflection. Then they can deside that it is in the best interest of themselves AND others to follow the crowd or not. But Fe asks for self-sacrifice because it is expected and I can't make decisions because it is expected, I need to have a real valuable reason because to me, expectations of society or not always in the best interest of others...
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I'm actually easy going and pretty much go with the flow and do whatever the group wants to do, because ordinarily, I don't really care that much about details.

Now, it's rare for me to dig my heels in the dirt and "rebel" against the collective's decision.. The last time it happened was at an old job where we were told to covertly monitor and record any and all mistakes a specific fellow associate made and then report them to our supervisor who planned to submit the whole thing to her boss--to get this lady fired.

I quit that job and warned the targeted associate about what was going on... because I felt it was hurtful and unethical... just shady business. As an Fi dom, I don't feel the need to assert my needs above everyone else's all the time.. If a group's decision conflicts with my inner principals, I will speak up and then be on my own way.. and usually these decisions that offend me have to do with protecting the feelings and dignity of others, instead of myself.
 
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