INFJ And Nihilistic Suicide

Nihilism:




Suicide:

 

There was a point in my life when I thought life was meaningless. Then I realized that "meaning" was a human construct, and it in itself was meaningless when it came to the natural world. I came to this conclusion because I thought to myself, "If there were no humans, there would be no meaning." Humans create meaning and give it its value and they do so for meaning's sake. Philosophy, science, and art are all the composites of this quest to observe a meaningless world and give it meaning.

But what is the very nature of this meaning we have created? It brings order and understanding from a chaotic and random universe. We create meaning to understand the underlying forces that drive the universe. By doing so we can even ascribe meaning to human life.

Human beings can live their lives as they wish to see the world become. This philosophy transcends time and culture. Whether it was Kant arguing that individuals should live by their maxim as if it could become a universal law, Gandhi arguing how each individual may not be important just by themselves but the accumulated change they bring about is essential, Martin Luther King arguing that a man amounts to only what he would die to protect, or a man who was hung on a cross for living a life of forgiveness and love, the message is always the same. Humans can choose to transcend their environment and situation. They can change the world, give it new meaning, simply by living their lives the way they believe everyone should.

So in a way, human's exist to bring about meaningful change, and they often do so by simply existing in a world that changes them over time, but sometimes they do so by destroying old meaning and then creating new meaning altogether. Thus life is not meaningless, because we can always create meaning, and as long as meaning is important to us, it will not be meaningless to us to do so.

 

There is no god, there is no cosmic meaning.
There is however US(you, me), therefore there's personal meaning.

make something matter to yourself and you can be nihilistically happy

 

Leave it to Shai to sum it up in 3 lines.

 

Anything that can be said can be made objective, and reduced a whole lot. The simpler the statement, the easier it is to apply it

 

Well then why not just sum up the entire thread to...

Happiness = Making life matter


(and for that matter...

Unhappiness = Making life matter too much or to little

There must be a moderate level of matterness!)

 

I agree with this philosophy that robin espouses.



In essence; each person is the most important person in the universe, to themselves. It doesn't matter whether or not anyone else agrees with that, because they're not them. Importance and Meaning starts with the self.

 

there's never a limit to happiness. though the universe tends to have catches and balances.

 

A bit egocentric, but certainly realistic.

Everyone loves to tell me how they have had the "worst childhood", even though I laugh manically inside when I hear them spout those words. But in a way it is true since everyone knows their own suffering far better than that of others suffering. It does begin with the individual.

I would not say there is a limit to happiness, just a limit to how much you can care or not care about aspects of life before it begins to challenge your happiness.

 

ah, so true.

 

sometimes I feel like life is a game of monopoly that is just stupid and I want to find a better game to play. I don't want to kill myself, I just want to play a more entertaining game.

 

I went through something similar. For me, I convinced myself that conscious experience is enough of a reason to stay alive. When you're dead, there's probably a good chance that there is no afterlife. The awareness you have and the pleasure you're capable of deriving through it is incentive enough to postpone death. In a way it's the unknown that calls you to keep going. That doubt in your mind that says maybe you're wrong. You've only been fully sentient for a couple years now, what makes you so sure there's nothing that can satisfy your need for meaning? Eventually I did find it, but it would take up to much room to write it out.

 

I definitely have a tendency towards nihilistic thinking. Sometimes, when everything seems dark and painful I have thought about suicide. But I don't think I would ever do it. I figure it's like this: I have already not existed forever (before I was born) and I will againg not exist forever (after I die), so why not enjoy this brief queer interruption from nothingness as long as it lasts? Also, even though I don't believe in objective values I do believe in subjective values making me really more of an existentialist than nihilist.

(the stick figure with a funny hat in that xkcd comic Shai Gar linked is an existentialist, that's the point of the strip I think, to point out the difference between nihilism and existentialism)

 

I think it's an INxx problem in general. When we focus too much internally, and can't see or learn from positive externalities, it can seem like everything just sucks.

In 9th and 10th grade I went through a long phase of INTP-y nihilism, and tried to distract myself by acting like an ESTP, (which, wouldn't you know, is the opposite of INFJ). Only after my Fe developed I finally accepted that humans are...human.

 

Oh god I hope not! -suddenly I become worried for my future- :wacko:

What I want to know [ from the perspective of someone who hasn't been to college yet] is this a 'college' issue or more of an issue that can occur at any random point in time to an INFJ?

Interestingly enough I have never wanted to commit bodily harm to myself, though homicidal thoughts occur when I'm especially cut off from society and thinking negatively. I know everyone wonders about homicide from time to time but mine will get excessive, especially due to my fascination with Serial Killers. If my words are wandering feel free to direct me back on topic. My thinking drifts off a lot, I find.

 

I don't think I will ever understand how someone could be Nhilistic, because I just can't fathom not caring.

Over the summer, I had a very deep depressive spell, due to me failing Calculus 2 (I passes my second time this semester! Horray!). I didn't want to do anything, I just wanted to sleep forever. The issue for me was that I WANTED to stop caring, to actually be nhilistic, and just go on. But I found myself dwelling over the same system of events again and again, caring too much about it and beating myself up. Very INFJ.

So I truly don't see how an INFJ could become nhilistc unless something REALLY traumatic way beyond what I have experienced happened.

 

Mh... I'd say idealists are always looking for meaning, especially introverted ones, and they can suffer when their beliefs are shattered for example and they realise their conception of life was just their conception and not a universal principle.

Nihilism and not caring are very different. Nihilism is emptiness. You cannot care because nothing seems to matter ultimately. And this void is scary, because you are a human and you need a drive to your life to keep going.

I'd say INFJs would be prone to nihilism because of their ability to see things from a lot of different angles, resulting in a lack of definitiveness in their perception of the world in its globality. INFPs for example would have very strong beliefs they go for, and would go through a very hard time when something shatters them, but INFJs are less likely to take such a strong position, and so might end up feeling like they cannot just force a meaning on their life, even though they long for one.

It's funny, I have talked to my boyfriend about that a lot. He's an INTP and the thought that life is meaningless is actually reassuring to him (kind of like the feeling you wanted to get this summer by not caring about failure anymore), whereas to me it can be very depressing.
It's a matter of perception, like shai and satya say (great posts by the way).

As far as being a college thing, I'd say college might be a period in which you are more likely to experience that kind of thoughts because you are at a point in your life in which you are trying to project yourself in the future without really having any experience, and you're at a transition point from childhood to adulthood without really having any landmarks yet. I'd say they might be other moments of your life when you're likely to experience that kind of thinking too though. Midlife crisis type thing, or maybe the end of your life. Just speculating.

 

I can relate to what you are going through. I myself am a college student and I almost everyday question, what is it all for? What is the point? Why, if I am suffering do I need to stay here and suffer more? Why can't I just end it and get it over with? Im torn between understanding if it is an INFJ thing or college eccestential crisis. Thank you for posting that though, I enjoy reading the responses...:m103:

 

Some interesting posts folks.........
I've been down this road many years ago......it was only when I hit my 40's that I began to experience a real sense of peace.....it's a cliché- but it is the 'journey' the 'quest' many of us feel that we are on that keeps us going....and of course the endless possibilities of a life less ordinary...