If there is one true religion... | Page 13 | INFJ Forum

If there is one true religion...

Discussion in 'Philosophy and Religion' started by Vendrah, Feb 19, 2020.

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  1. Sandie33

    Sandie33 Love Often & Absolutely ♡
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    Isn't history fun?
    Thank you for the link. I'll have a look.
     
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  2. Gnostic Christian

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    If I can butt in.

    That axial age label has been attributed to when the non supernatural thinkers, Confucius, Buddha and Socrates move people away from supernatural thinking the led only to speculative nonsense to using logic and reason to explain reality.

    This link speaks of how well that worked until Christianity reversed our progress and helped usher in a 1,000 year Dark Age where freedom of thought was denied all within their sphere of power and murder.

    As is my way, I have imbedded it in with an opinion. The Big Think link is all you need view. Nice and short.

    I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental efforts that modern preachers and theists are using with the literal reading of myths.

    https://bigthink.com/videos/what-is-god-2-2

    Further.
    http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/03132009/watch.html

    Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

    Please listen as to what is said about the literal reading of myths.

    "Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

    Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

    This is how early Gnostic Christians view the transition from reading myths properly to destructive literal reading and idol worship.



    Regards
    DL
     
  3. OP
    Vendrah

    Vendrah Community Member

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    I think the word "religion" was a bad choice of a term in my part; Universal religion perhaps would be a closer term.

    I do think that the description of the flow of the universe without the constrain of time would be more like a science thing than a religious thing.

    I read the article you link and find it interesting.

    I actually had made some very few progresses in my original line. It happened that, in the end, I have been associating this as it were Fi stuff although Fi is might just a one of some possible keys to the same thing, or might be just some sort of lens that I made to see things easier. Im thinking that this is quite a possibility: Perhaps God, "fearing" that people would follow him only for the sake of ambition, just to buy a seat in heaven with calculated actions, might have choose to hide e self from the people, and, instead, did find a solution to that absence. I do think that, deep down, all or almost all of we do know what is right and wrong, and, deep down, we do know what is the right path to follow. Of course, personality is something that can have interference: Some personalities might shut that voice down and some others might give some great attention to that voice, and some people are in the middle. That "deep down voice" (that is indeed not literally a voice), or, in Jung terms, underlying image, must not be something terrible aloud to the point of attracting people that follow the code rather for ambitions than the code for itself. So, in the end, God can say that, deep down, we knew what was right, and that nothing external - including religion - would really prevented us from the correct choice. I imagine like the argument: "But, you, God, told us to kill these " "heregians"/atheists/ etc.."; "No, none of these religions proved for certainty that was really my word; And deep down you know my word and you had an inner voice telling you that you were going against my word, but you still picked the wrong path". Of course, if that was done for real, then by architecture/design we should never be able to track God or do a deduction of what I said - but rather, an induction or some sort of speculation.

    There are indeed some stuff that are close to universal values, although one movement or another might will claim that for itself. Stuff like (or underlying images), perhaps, empathy, trust and authenticity (not telling lies), Freedom, and etc (what the Exotic Christian guy calls "the golden rule" could be one of them, grouped with empathy perhaps).. Are likely native values that can appears in different places and can re-appear again if disappears or go on scarcity for a while. However, in no doubt these could be justified by some Darwinist lens (that says that these are shaped through evolution, natural selection, or environment feasibility). I dont think the why makes them less valuable, but it makes them less cool (these things being shaped by natural selection is way more boring than the idea that a God came and implanted these things to make us grow).

    I can say that my line of thinking isnt at all fully original, it is likely to be old, and thats very positive, it just makes it stronger actually.
     
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  4. Ren

    Ren Pin's android / The Maker / ≅ INFP

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    Ok, so basically still no answer to my objection.

    It appears you're now banned so I don't expect to get it anytime soon. Shame!
     
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  5. SlowUpTake

    SlowUpTake Community Member

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    Mr gnostic christian said the Buddha's teaching moved people away from supe-rnaturalism with logic,not to focus on the now banned gnostic but picking up on this idea that Buddhism is logical I wonder if anyone has any thoughts on this, for instance.... how can the Buddha's concept of no-self in any way logical? Buddhism, at least Mahayana Bhuddism, holds that Mind is the the only reality and that what we ordinary people perceive as real is not real...where is the logic in that (asking for a friend)?
     
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  6. dragulagu

    dragulagu Galactic Explorer

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    It is, especially in regards to ancient history. It has some mysticism into it. Love these grand time cycle religions. I also checked the Axial Age article,
    something to further research as well. It seems these specific ("modern") religions seem to coincide with an evolution of society during that specific period.

    +1, The videos that Gnostic posted are interesting as well, pity he got banned though (understandable), wanted to further discuss the topic with him.

    Well, that's the thing now though. Science is shifting towards a more philosophical terrain already. Step further to religion in the future.

    And another read: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/religion-science/
     
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  7. just me

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    I guess we will see one day.
     
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  8. just me

    just me GONE

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    1. It did happen.
    2.If you don't like the Bible, you don't read it in the right way.
    3. "Why don't you use your own words?" Those were your words. I'm cautious of what cans of worms I open.
     
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  9. Jonah Caan

    Jonah Caan Community Member

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    In my understanding from life thus far, I think the universal religion includes two cores:

    - The belief in God: The Creator of all things, The First.
    - Love: Love of the Self and others, which ultimately heightens one's love for God and brings one closer to Him

    I've tried to simplify it down to the most basics, and in my opinion as I am right now in life, this is it.

    What do you think?
     
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  10. OP
    Vendrah

    Vendrah Community Member

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    I think its good, although too simple.

    Truly tracking some without associating it with anything at all directly (despite its own concept) is really difficult. I had been doing it with Fi although (or rather IXFX or XXFP in dichotomy).
    I recognized more or less these:
    - Trust and Honesty
    - Compassion/Empathy (its more or less love)
    - Freedom
    - "Equality" (in the sense of respect and not dis-humane inequality)

    I dont think freedom and Trust/Honesty are, necessarily, a product of love (equality could be although, inequality can be seen as a product of systematic lack of love). Through Fi, the God value is undetected (XSFJ are generally the most on believing and being into religion), but I do think that God is real at least as a human innate concept. It could be that God exists or that it is just a innate idea of humanity, just an idea product of nature. The same goes to these values: They can be God's will and God's most essential images, or, in a less cool way, just a product of nature. In both ways they are real, although abstract.

    Some of these things are somewhat present in the holy books, in one or another. You can see some traces of them in both Islam, as it seems, Christianity in some realms, and perhaps even in Gnostic Christianity as well.
     
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  11. OP
    Vendrah

    Vendrah Community Member

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    "But there still exists another form of negative thinking, which at first glance perhaps would scarcely be recognized as such I refer to the theosophical thinking which is to-day rapidly spreading in every quarter of the globe, presumably as a reaction phenomenon to the materialism of the epoch now receding. Theosophical thinking has an air that is not in the least reductive, since it exalts everything to transcendental and world-embracing ideas. A dream, for instance, is no [p. 445] longer a modest dream, but an experience upon ‘another plane’. The hitherto inexplicable fact of telepathy is ,very simply explained by ‘vibrations’ which pass from one man to another. An ordinary nervous trouble is quite simply accounted for by the fact that something has collided with the astral body. Certain anthropological peculiarities of the dwellers on the Atlantic seaboard are easily explained by the submerging of Atlantis, and so on. We have merely to open a theosophical book to be overwhelmed by the realization that everything is already explained, and that ‘spiritual science’ has left no enigmas of life unsolved. But, fundamentally, this sort of thinking is just as negative as materialistic thinking. When the latter conceives psychology as chemical changes taking place in the cell-ganglia, or as the extrusion and withdrawal of cell-processes, or as an internal secretion, in essence this is just as superstitious as theosophy. The only difference lies in the fact that materialism reduces all phenomena to our current physiological notions, while theosophy brings everything into the concepts of Indian metaphysics. When we trace the dream to an overloaded stomach, the dream is not thereby explained, and when we explain telepathy as ‘vibrations’, we have said just as little. Since, what are ‘vibrations’? Not only are both methods of explanation quite impotent — they are actually destructive, because by interposing their seeming explanations they withdraw interest from the problem, diverting it in the former case to the stomach, and in the latter to imaginary vibrations, thus preventing any serious investigation of the problem. Either kind of thinking is both sterile and sterilizing. Their negative quality consists in this it is a method of thought that is indescribably cheap there is a real poverty of productive and creative energy. It is a thinking taken in tow by other functions. [p. 446]"
    Carl Jung on Te description.
     
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  12. chemicalzombie

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    First of all let me get my biases out of the way; I am a Catholic Christian. Second of all, I just joined this forum so I may repeat points because I did no take the time to read all 13 pages. Yet I find the question your asking very interesting. Basically you're asking If you were God and wanted to create one true religion, how would you do it. You go on to argue that religious principles should be something universally discoverable by everyone. I actually agree with you. I think and believe in a universal law that's written on everyone's heart. The basic principles of morality we all have testified to a lawgiver. But wait, don't Catholics believe in the institutional church and the bible? How can I reconcile that with my belief that people are saved by adhering to the universal law written on people's hearts? For me, it relies on a concept known as ontological soteriology. The idea that Christ's existence is enough to save a person even if they have no epistemological knowledge of him. God reveals himself fully to a select group of people because he wants to establish his the kingdom, but he reveals himself partly to every human through the inner moral law.
     
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  13. Themis

    Themis Community Member

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    An INFJ cannot have a religion, religion has no moral, only god is moral! and god is inside him, starring through his eyes the hearts of other's, he believes in God.

    A pure INFJ has no religion
    he is religion

    Most people that claim they are infj they are not, their EGO is but not them.
    God has no EGO, god is everything(chameleon)
    The depression comes from feeling, almost touching the fact that something can change and yet nothing happens.
    An INFJ struggles to reach God, to be pure!
    He is fighting his own EGO (headaches) and this is exhausting.
    If this huge force exceeds Logic he becomes Mahatma Gandhi or Adolf Hitler.

    Be careful out there the few ones, the lines are very thin
     
  14. Hostarius

    Hostarius Gimme that WOAD

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    I'm feeling very precognitive about your fate here, my man.
    [​IMG]
     
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  15. Roses In The Vineyard

    Roses In The Vineyard Community Member

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    Religion is just another little box people force themselves and others into regardless of the consequences. At best there is some though limited spiritual growth while at the worst it is dust and dry bones where there is not only little or no spiritual growth but real harm being done.
     
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  16. Themis

    Themis Community Member

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  17. Aneirin

    Aneirin AKA, David
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    ah, the truth. .but who's truth? yours..mine. .that person lurking over there? it gets rather murky if we are honest about truth. . .(begins to put on flak jacket , preparing for the onslaught)
     
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  18. Ren

    Ren Pin's android / The Maker / ≅ INFP

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    Indeed.

    If we take truth to mean correspondence to the facts, you'll notice that a lot of our forum prophets conveniently avoid telling us what 'the facts' are supposed to be.

    It's easy in these circumstances to go on about 'the truth'—but I suspect there is literally no content behind the claim.
     
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  19. Ren

    Ren Pin's android / The Maker / ≅ INFP

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    Aren't you referring to the 'established church' (the institution) rather than religion itself?
     
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  20. Ren

    Ren Pin's android / The Maker / ≅ INFP

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    Can you give us an example of a force that 'exceeds logic'? What does it look like? Can you describe it?
     
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