How many INFJs assumed they were Ts before they understood typology?
- Thread starter justeccentricnotinsane
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I thought I was INTJ for a long time. All the tests said that. Later on I went to the INTJ board and thought they were just rude clodhoppers. I started to rethink the deal, and then came here. I'm pretty sure I'm an INFJ now. Now and then I still think INFP, but I'm pretty sure I'm INFJ. I've always been popular. I stick to myself, for the most part, but I make very sure I have good relationships with everyone except absolute jerks. So I think the Fe is pretty strong in me, whereas in INTJs they seem to deliberately throw it out the window, a move I regard as crazy. Good public relations is almost crucial to any kind of success from marriage to work to sports. It's stupid to not work at it, hard.
But yet, I do try to think as logically as I am able. It's also very important. But if I know I'm right, even though it will cost a friendship? I shut up. You have to feel when people won't listen, and just cork it. This is especially true when it's not terribly important -- not a life or death issue. INTJs it seems to me are especially vocal when nothing is at stake except that they are right. There's a lot to be said for emotional intelligence.
But yet, I do try to think as logically as I am able. It's also very important. But if I know I'm right, even though it will cost a friendship? I shut up. You have to feel when people won't listen, and just cork it. This is especially true when it's not terribly important -- not a life or death issue. INTJs it seems to me are especially vocal when nothing is at stake except that they are right. There's a lot to be said for emotional intelligence.
I thought I was an INTP for the longest time because my Ti overpowered my Fe.
"Feelers" =/= warm fuzzy teddy bears. Simply a preference for moral systems, which can be easily supplemented with logical data and principles from various sources (Wikipedia seems to be a popular one, preeminent books on a given subject work well too)
"Thinkers" =/= cold robotic bio-machines. Simply a preference for logical systems, also easily supported with moral systems (classical literature is excellent for this, and a few philosophy/humanities courses).
The idea that F's cannot be scientific or detached is absurd, both modes are simply channeled through the moral system that forms the crux of an F's paradigm. They are supporting roles, and vice versa for "Thinkers". Human behavior is not black and white, treating it as such is silly. I've argued with a few INTJs on another forum and there is usually a blind wall of emotions (typically "I'm right, you just aren't understanding me", unfortunately) once they're beat into a corner. I'll stop here, lest I start ranting even more.
I am an aloof, detached INFJ. My Fe manifests as calls to action, catalyzing the change I perceive necessary for the growth of the individual even if it clashes with their perception due to misunderstood principles (Ti loves logical principles and clarity)/clouded judgement. Disagreement does not bother me if it's productive. Sympathy is balanced, usually taking the form of "You should do this because (dissection of reasoning compared to theirs). What you're doing now doesn't work so well because X and Y behaviors differs with what you're really after".
Unfortunately, my Ti is not strong so what I write or say - especially the latter - is rarely concise.
/end rant
"Feelers" =/= warm fuzzy teddy bears. Simply a preference for moral systems, which can be easily supplemented with logical data and principles from various sources (Wikipedia seems to be a popular one, preeminent books on a given subject work well too)
"Thinkers" =/= cold robotic bio-machines. Simply a preference for logical systems, also easily supported with moral systems (classical literature is excellent for this, and a few philosophy/humanities courses).
The idea that F's cannot be scientific or detached is absurd, both modes are simply channeled through the moral system that forms the crux of an F's paradigm. They are supporting roles, and vice versa for "Thinkers". Human behavior is not black and white, treating it as such is silly. I've argued with a few INTJs on another forum and there is usually a blind wall of emotions (typically "I'm right, you just aren't understanding me", unfortunately) once they're beat into a corner. I'll stop here, lest I start ranting even more.
I am an aloof, detached INFJ. My Fe manifests as calls to action, catalyzing the change I perceive necessary for the growth of the individual even if it clashes with their perception due to misunderstood principles (Ti loves logical principles and clarity)/clouded judgement. Disagreement does not bother me if it's productive. Sympathy is balanced, usually taking the form of "You should do this because (dissection of reasoning compared to theirs). What you're doing now doesn't work so well because X and Y behaviors differs with what you're really after".
Unfortunately, my Ti is not strong so what I write or say - especially the latter - is rarely concise.
/end rant
I thought I was an INTJ for quite some time. (I still think I might be at times.) I think I was testing that way because I put on an ENTJ/ESTP (depending on the situation.) persona for my work and mixed with my social anxiety it was coming out INTJ. I found out I wasn't an INTJ merely because of how I can feel points of view through the eyes of others.
I'm still not sure whether I'm T or F.
I also wanted to say that just about everything that has been said about Sensors thus far in this thread has been incredibly insulting, almost disgusting. It's an insult to S types for someone to call an N type an S type and to use that claim as an insult. It is not an insult to be called as such, not even remotely - every being has their own gifts to offer the world, in their own unique ways. The problem compounds, though, when someone insists on that observation and contradicts someone's own sense of self in favor of one's limited observations. Also, using Si does not equate being clearly stupid - not even remotely. I'm lacking in Si and I find it to be a weak point of mine, not something that would make me puff out my chest as a sort of badge of honor.
I kind of hope that Majesty was joking here (or mocking people who actually believe that sensors are ignorant), or making a jab at someone responding negatively to being possibly typed as an S.
out:
From what I've read, it's not uncommon practice to use S tendencies as an insult on these forums. I'm still new here, but I would hope that that isn't entirely true, and that the people on this board would be more open-minded than that.
I also wanted to say that just about everything that has been said about Sensors thus far in this thread has been incredibly insulting, almost disgusting. It's an insult to S types for someone to call an N type an S type and to use that claim as an insult. It is not an insult to be called as such, not even remotely - every being has their own gifts to offer the world, in their own unique ways. The problem compounds, though, when someone insists on that observation and contradicts someone's own sense of self in favor of one's limited observations. Also, using Si does not equate being clearly stupid - not even remotely. I'm lacking in Si and I find it to be a weak point of mine, not something that would make me puff out my chest as a sort of badge of honor.
I kind of hope that Majesty was joking here (or mocking people who actually believe that sensors are ignorant), or making a jab at someone responding negatively to being possibly typed as an S.
out:From what I've read, it's not uncommon practice to use S tendencies as an insult on these forums. I'm still new here, but I would hope that that isn't entirely true, and that the people on this board would be more open-minded than that.
Spot-on observation. Misunderstanding is rife throughout the introductory MBTI information before one understands the individual functions (Thank you, Adymus, for the information). For those who discriminate against Sensors or laud intuitive superiority, step off the pseudo-mystical Intuitive pedestal please. We're all human here. All in favor of continued satirizing MBTI-discrimination, please continue
Humor is a great solvent.
You are 100% right in all your observations. I bring it up all the time.I'm still not sure whether I'm T or F.
I also wanted to say that just about everything that has been said about Sensors thus far in this thread has been incredibly insulting, almost disgusting. It's an insult to S types for someone to call an N type an S type and to use that claim as an insult. It is not an insult to be called as such, not even remotely - every being has their own gifts to offer the world, in their own unique ways. The problem compounds, though, when someone insists on that observation and contradicts someone's own sense of self in favor of one's limited observations. Also, using Si does not equate being clearly stupid - not even remotely. I'm lacking in Si and I find it to be a weak point of mine, not something that would make me puff out my chest as a sort of badge of honor.
I kind of hope that Majesty was joking here (or mocking people who actually believe that sensors are ignorant), or making a jab at someone responding negatively to being possibly typed as an S.
From what I've read, it's not uncommon practice to use S tendencies as an insult on these forums. I'm still new here, but I would hope that that isn't entirely true, and that the people on this board would be more open-minded than that.
I always thought that I was a T at first, because I was uncomfortable with the idea of being both male and an F. The first time I ever took a test, though, I came up as an F. This was before I'd come to understand MBTI so well that I could get almost any type I felt like I was at the time.
I hate to admit it, but I am a bit less masculine than some guys, despite that Fs can be quite "masculine."
I hate to admit it, but I am a bit less masculine than some guys, despite that Fs can be quite "masculine."
I definitely did. I'm glad I did, too, because the contradictions and similarities that left me feeling uncertain yielded a greater understanding of all the types. This is because I was unsure, so I studied them all
The same is true for the Enneagram. In-fact I discovered that I am a type 5w4 and that helps me understand how I am a Thinker and how my emotional side and INFJ temperament play into Personality.
Great stuff!
The same is true for the Enneagram. In-fact I discovered that I am a type 5w4 and that helps me understand how I am a Thinker and how my emotional side and INFJ temperament play into Personality.
Great stuff!
So i'm kind of in the very middle of this conundrum right now. I always thought I was a "T" because i'm a girl and I don't wear my heart on my sleeve like most women do and don't absolutely just like LOVE talking about my emotions and stuff (Also I had tested as INTJ). But recently i've been testing as INFJ. I feel like i'm more in touch with my feelings, but I don't know if it's just because i've been going through a sort of emotionally tragic situation in my life or what. But I just have felt recently less ashamed to have emotions, whereas in the past I would ignore and deny them, lately I acknowledge them and try to work them out in the moment instead of stifling them and having an emotion outburst at an inopportune moment.
There are just a lot of things about INTJ descriptions that I don't agree with. Like descriptions always say how they hate hearing about other people's problems and what not. I actually don't feel that way, literally all of my friends come to me with their problems and I am happy to help them through it or just give a listening ear.
Maybe I am just really in the middle or something; INXJ. I guess I just sort of always figured that if I were an "F" that means I would wear my heart on my sleeve. But, I don't. I guard my heart quite viciously, because i'm actually really sensitive. But people take that as me not having feelings because i'm so eager to protect them. I don't know...what do you think? Do all INFJs wear their heart on their sleeves, do any for that matter? Or more specifically Female INFJ's. Because all the INFJ's I know IRL are male, and they don't necessarily wear their hearts on their sleeve, but I think that's just sort of a man thing to do: Guard your feelings.
There are just a lot of things about INTJ descriptions that I don't agree with. Like descriptions always say how they hate hearing about other people's problems and what not. I actually don't feel that way, literally all of my friends come to me with their problems and I am happy to help them through it or just give a listening ear.
Maybe I am just really in the middle or something; INXJ. I guess I just sort of always figured that if I were an "F" that means I would wear my heart on my sleeve. But, I don't. I guard my heart quite viciously, because i'm actually really sensitive. But people take that as me not having feelings because i'm so eager to protect them. I don't know...what do you think? Do all INFJs wear their heart on their sleeves, do any for that matter? Or more specifically Female INFJ's. Because all the INFJ's I know IRL are male, and they don't necessarily wear their hearts on their sleeve, but I think that's just sort of a man thing to do: Guard your feelings.
Nope, I was the same way. I was very emotionally closed off for a long time but when I hit 20, I lived with a bunch of F dominant women and I think they encouraged me in the emotional sharing department. The INFJ women I know don't LOVE to talk about their feelings and some actually find them very inconvenient. Since in INFJ's the F is not the dominant function, you won't necessarily lead with it. You will probably be somewhat sensitive and naturally empathetic (possible protective) but you won't necessarily be comfortable or excited about expressing emotion.
I think family culture and life experience have A LOT to do with how we develop emotionally, regardless of type. It sounds like you're an INFJ to me. But only you can really know. I might suggest you read about cognitive functions if you want to know more. See if this description resonates with you: http://www.cognitiveprocesses.com/extravertedfeeling.html
[MENTION=4095]vulcanhuman[/MENTION] and [MENTION=4383]Ryo[/MENTION] - I was the same way too. For years, actually right up until I was 25!!! and met my (now) husband. Throughout high school and college I was VERY walled off emotionally (a form of protecting myself), to the point where T ruled most everything. But deep down I knew (felt?) this was against my true nature. Now I am far more emotionally comfortable with my self and, buy extension, the world.
[MENTION=4383]Ryo[/MENTION] & [MENTION=4347]Relm[/MENTION] What both of you have said I totally relate to. I have always been a really sensitive person, but I put so many walls up in order to protect myself. I just think that recently some of those walls have come down, for one reason or another. I feel like right now i'm just really in the middle of the two types (INTJ & INFJ) because I feel like I agree with like half of both type descriptions. Perhaps I am in the process of changing or something...I guess I will just have to wait and see.
I thought I was an INTP or INTJ for a long time because most online MBTI tests do a piss-poor job at determining F-T and P-J, using questions more suited for the Big Five's "Agreeableness" and "Conscientiousness" axes then to Jungian cognitive functions.
[MENTION=4095]vulcanhuman[/MENTION] echoes my thoughts. I thought I was an INTP, INTJ, or ENTP, but not because I didn't understand typology. It had more to do with trying to hide my hypersensitivity and nurturing nature under a blanket of logical analysis and snide commentary.
One misconception that causes misunderstandings is calling cognitive functions "stronger" or "weaker" relative to other cognitive functions. A better way to understand the cognitive function heirarchy is in terms of identification with and intergration into the Ego structure. For an INFJ this would be:
Ego
---
Ni
Fe
Ti
Se
---
Shadow
The higher functions are merged into the Ego (the Auxiliary less than the Dominant). the Tertiary is used consciously, but stays distinct from the ego. The Inferior is generally not used consciously untill we enter our middle age years.
IMO people are actually more objective about their Tertiary function that their Dominant and Auxiliary functions because they are not merged into the Ego, we do not identify with it. People treat their Dominant function, and to a lessert extent their Auxiliary function, as party of "who they are", while the Tertiary function is treated as "something that they use", a tool used by the Ego.
This has nothing to do with their "strength", but instead their relationship to the Ego.
INFJs and INTJs are quite similar, both have Ni at the core of their Ego structure and have Se in the Shadow opposing it. In both the Auxiliary is an extraverted judgment function and the Tertiary is an introverted judgement function. Therefore, extroverted judgment is partially merged with the Ego while introverted judgment is held outside the ego.
Thus the big difference between the 2 types is in the Auxiliary-Tertiary axis.
The INFJ has socialized value judgment (Fe) partially intergrated into the Ego while individualized logical conceptualization (Ti) is treated as a tool that is outside of the Ego.
The INTJ has socialized logical conceptualization (Te) partially intergrated into the Ego while individualized value judgement (Fi) is treated as a tool outside of the Ego.
So, essentially, if you are Ni dominant and tend to take criticisms of your value judgments as a personal affront you are likely INFJ, if you take criticisms of your reasoning as a personal affront you are likely INTJ.
This is why I say that we are conscious of our Tertiary function, but hold it apart from our Ego. Thus we easily recognize it as a distinct process of cognition in our minds easily, while the Dominant and Auxiliary functions are to some extent taken for granted
If you think Dom Si = "close-minded and ignorant" then you do not understand Jungian psychological types.
Sensor-bashing is the bane of all MBTI message boards.
This is why I supect Thomas Jefferson was an INFJ. Jefferson had a socially-oriented moral system (Fe) that was intimately intertwined with his political beliefs and ideals, and then used "logical data and principles from various sources" to back them up.
Others type me as an INTJ all the time and I used to think maybe I was an INXJ because I have a very strong Te, but upon further research, I discovered why my Te was so strong and then it was easy for me to fully embrace my INFJ-ness and understand why people misread me so often.
I read somewhere that 'N' is often misunderstood/misread as 'T' : "I think" (T) versus "I know" (N)
This was especially true of me when I was younger and my Fe was still developing.
For me, the easiest way to explain why I'm INFJ and not INTJ (I do have a very strong Te) is that NF's are, at the root, interested in personal growth and development while NT's are interested in complex systems that make up the world around us. I am very systematic and logical, but my preference is to direct the use of systems toward people and relationships.
I read somewhere that 'N' is often misunderstood/misread as 'T' : "I think" (T) versus "I know" (N)
This was especially true of me when I was younger and my Fe was still developing.
For me, the easiest way to explain why I'm INFJ and not INTJ (I do have a very strong Te) is that NF's are, at the root, interested in personal growth and development while NT's are interested in complex systems that make up the world around us. I am very systematic and logical, but my preference is to direct the use of systems toward people and relationships.
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