How does one examine their own principles?

unpersons

unpersons

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I was reading the Golden Sayings of Epictetus today, and there were quite a few things in it which intrigued me greatly.

"You are sailing to Rome (you tell me) to obtain the post of Governor of Cnossus. You are not content to stay at home with the honours you had before; you want something on a larger scale, and more conspicuous. But when did you ever undertake a voyage for the purpose of reviewing your own principles and getting rid of any of them that proved unsound? Whom did you ever visit for that object? What time did you ever set yourself for that? What age? Run over the times of your life–by yourself, if you are ashamed before me. Did you examine your principles when a boy? Did you not do everything just as you do now? Or when you were a stripling, attending the school of oratory and practising the art yourself, what did you ever imagine you lacked?"

It's been making me think, when did I review my own principles and get rid of the unsound? Have I ever? How can I do so?
 
When one is faced with a decision that challenges those principles.
 
Vict said:
When one is faced with a decision that challenges those principles.
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That, my friend, is somewhat of a rarity. At least decisions which challenge principles that have not already been changed once or twice before.
 
I try to do it regularly, incorporating any new information I've gleaned from my travels, and reflecting upon what I believe the reasons are for what I do, trying to be mindful of any information to suggest otherwise in my actions. I also find it helpful to receive feedback from outside sources.
 
Whiskers said:
I try to do it regularly, incorporating any new information I've gleaned from my travels, and reflecting upon what I believe the reasons are for what I do, trying to be mindful of any information to suggest otherwise in my actions. I also find it helpful to receive feedback from outside sources.
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Travels? If I could travel I might do the same. I did learn a lot from going to Vegas and Cali. 40 hours is good thinking time.

As for outside sources, I find most often that most other potential outside sources go by principles even more unexamined than my own. Alas, I'm willing to learn from anybody who can put forward a reasonable view or, I guess, "prove" me wrong.

I would rather find out the answers within myself. Very independent view.
 
Perhaps Epictetus just enjoyed making people uncomfortable.


Reviewing principles seems pretty pointless, unless you're mad - in which case reviewing principles might be a good thing.

In terms of thought the basic principles are:
* Law of identity: that A is A.
* Law of non contradiction: the statements: A is B; and A is not B are mutually exclusive.
* Law of the excluded middle: That any preposition about something is either true, or false.

In terms of morals the basic principle is: seek the good.

These principles cannot be changed...
The ability to apply the principles of thought in complex situations requires refinement of thought/terms and wisdom - which are more properly described as developed in the individual, rather than replaced/reviewed.
The manner/selection of what one regards as 'good' and to be sought relies heavily on wisdom (which makes it safer to follow the advice of the elderly than the impulses of youth) to determine a right balance between: individual/social goods; immediate/long-term goods; sensual/intellectual goods; familial/national/global goods, etc.
 
If you've read Epictetus you know he enjoyed making people uncomfortable.

:md:

I don't believe principles can be so easily described, even beyond being conditional. I think something like, there are principles that should apply through everyday life, but we don't even usually realize we are engaging in them.
 
I think challenging your principles is one of the best, productive and loving acts you can do for yourself. Your principles should only be there to guide you, not bind or blind you from yourself and the world. Whenever I feel strongly about something I try and prove myself wrong, to test the strength and vaildity of the idea. I enjoy discussing it with people that have different and opposing perspectives. I think its important to remember that your principles can change, and you are more than your principles. its important not to identify too strongly with them, otherwise we can get defensive when our principles are challenged. When we get defensive we stop listening and learning. Each challenge to our principles is healthy and valuable. It gives us opportunity to review, adapt and evolve.

Some quotes from Zindell:
'Beliefs are the eyelids of the mind'

'We should all know the code of our programs, otherwise we can never be free'.

'We are prisoners of our natural brains. As children we grow, and new programs are layered down, set into the jelly of our brains. When we are young we write many of these programs in order to adapt to a bizarre and often dangerous environment. And then we grow some more. We mature. We find our places in our cities, in our societies, in ourselves. We form hypotheses as to the nature of things. These hypotheses shape us in turn, and yet more programs are written until we attain a certain level of competence and mastery, even of comfort, with our universe. Because our programs have allowed us this mastery, however limited, we become comfortable in ourselves, as well. And then there is no need for new programs, no need to erase or edit the old. We even forget that we were once able to program ourselves. Our brains grow opaque to new thoughts, as rigid as glass, and our programs are frozen for life, hardwired, so to speak, within our hardened brains.'
 
Essentially, the same as you would examine other people's principles.
Questions.
5W + 1H.
And live. It's by living that you can see mirrors to compare your own principles.
And no everyone gets the same mirrors...
 
This makes me think of René Descartes' Discourse on Method, where he describes how he examined his reason; always asking why. I think perhaps the same could be applied in this case.
 
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The same way you examine everything else. Dont make life so difficult.
 
I gave a presentation on Epictetus recently. To evaluate your principles, you need a basis for doing so. Epictetus drew the distinction between internals and externals, and said basically (although you'd have to learn more) that you should not concern yourself with externals and focus only on internals because you can only control those supposedly.
 
I dunno. Some of my principles have helped me survive, but not necessarily thrive. And when life gets difficult, I usually question some of those principles, at least on the surface level.

There's an internal drive to explore more than my small view of life, even when there are no "problems" that are screaming to be solved. Well, technically, the Internal Drive is screaming for me to expand my horizons.

I gotta say, though: Even just being on the INFJs Forums can be overwhelming with different perspectives to learn from. I can't imagine trying to take in the rest of the world.

So yeah I stay pretty narrow. :redface:
 
By examination

:md:
 
It is important, when taking a look at oneself, to have an exterior point of reference.
 
My principles are challenged in a variety of ways.

* Actively seeking, learning and expanding my knowledge causes me to question my ways of thinking.
* Listening to other peoples thoughts and experiences which causes me to look at something from a different perspective that I have not considered before.
* Being challenged in a way that forces me to become aware of the holes in my way of thinking.
* Reflecting on why I believe something and where those beliefs come from.
 
Hmm. You could ask yourself why they are important and only settle for a complete answer, even if it takes you to uncomfortable places you haven't explored yet.
 
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