It is a shame I forgot about this until now.
^ Let's throw her on an island (with enough food and water there), and see if she remembers what is depression, in 6 months. Part of the popular cult is to make her believe it's up to her. Because that's the type of superstitious bias people train, by the positive reinforcement of (random!) success. So it gets very influential to assume so. That's what behavioral economists study in recent years, and has been the major field for Nobel prizes in economics. What if it's a perfectly healthy reaction within a very unhealthy setting?
Then it must be addressed in spite of the setting. From what I understand of what you are saying here, I agree with you, but the fact that the environment sucks doesn't really change the nature of the problem or the fact that we have to deal with it. We can't go back to living how our ancestors did thousands of years ago.
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That being said, something CAN be done. I am not going to allow depression to run my life. Even if it is depression, it could be anexity, or both really. I wont know for some time. This shows me though that it is ok to acknowlage these things, and it is ok to be depressed, it has reason and purpose, and it shows people that something can be done about it.
So do you choose ignorance then or what do you do? Good post BTW.
Alright, that's nice and all, but lets say someone has been suffering for decades, the depression came from nothing and there has never been any lasting break. Is that THEN a time where you can let the poor bastard have a break from the pain with some medication? Or is it all being weak of character because you're not "sucking it up" and "fixing yourself"?
What if you're not getting anything done because your depressed, and instead you're just acutely aware of how little you're doing?
Its unfair to say all drugs and all relief apart from somehow finding and fixing the source (if there ever was one) is bad and that a person trying to escape endless torment is weak and inferior of character. This is the major part of the Stigma of depression, that you got there because you just suck.
When can you say a person has suffered enough to "earn" relief from chronic depression?
I don't think enfp_can_be_shy said or implied some of the things you seem to be responding to; he seems to be saying the system is bad but not that the individuals are bad. Treatment is a tradeoff, and instead of completely negating the problem, it can in some cases only serve to treat the symptoms without addressing the root causes.
When has someone suffered enough to earn relief from depression? They have when they decide to (and unfortunately, are able to afford) treatment and are willing to undergo it in spite of the costs and side-effects of the medication. They may have to spend many years on severely debilitating medication, but I do believe that there is something wrong with suffering such side-effects. I wont judge them negatively for it, but I will judge the institution. Not everyone gets those side-effects though.
enfp_can_be_shy seems to be focusing on the institution while you are focusing on the individuals, and I believe that is the source of your misunderstanding each other. This applies to other posts made by you two as well.
(And you should both be nicer to each other.)
Convince yourself. However, you simply cannot observe your own childhood development, for example, and how you have been influenced by the aggressive peer-pressure around you, or some other factors beyond your control. Everything you could think about is influenced in some way by the external world, it doesn't happen on its own. This is both obvious, and proven by multiple experiments.
No matter how much you will be pushed to believe so, this is not your own fault, and is not up to you to resolve (if you see it as something that should be resolved).
Like I said, unfortunately, people have to blame themselves and find a way to resolve their problems. The alternative is to take on the world, and that is an ultimately futile endeavor because nothing is really going to change the world- in the sense that while you may get good gradual change over time, you wont have enough substantive change to alleviate the suffering of the individual concerned.
uhhh...yeah, that just confirmed that what you're talking about is in no way related to how things have been for me, though I do see your point.
Also, I don't know where you'd get the idea that I think my depression (which, mind you, goes into anhedonia territory at times, along with psychomotor retardation) is my fault. The only way it would be in any way my fault is if I locked myself into a "woe is me" mindset, which I don't do cause I'm pretty optimistic.
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I don't think he is saying it is your fault, not from what I read anyway. Where did you get that idea? It seems that he is saying it is the fault of the environment. He is also saying that individuals are taught to believe it is their fault but that it is not actually their fault.
Genes don't mean strict consequence, and most of these processes happen in interaction. Genes have no purpose, on their own. A bird doesn't have genes to fly. If you tied its wings during the whole process of growing up, it wouldn't explore its flying ability. And then the bird wouldn't be able to fly even when you untie its wings.
We can't be fully aware of all influences, not only in early childhood /it's impossible to trace them all/, but even now, in everyday life. Compare with dreams at night. Everything that happens there is remixed information from real life, and yet it is not possible to analyze it all, and link everything with certainty. We also rely too much on language and linear reasoning, as some dogmatic rule, while our brains physically do not operate linearly. So there are too many triggers at once, and no single cause to be identified and "dealt with". But I guess it's a matter of viewpoint, and further research. I stated my main points, and respect that we disagree. Thanks, and sorry if I have offended someone, which was not my goal, and in which case I apologize.
It varies from brain to brain. Some brains are more prone to relying on sequential ("linear") thinking while others operate more spatially or visually.
