good reading on 'evil'

[alice144]

I'm fascinated by the concept of evil. Postmodernism has more or less done away with our labelling things as good or bad, but the truth remains -- some things which we encounter in life are good, and others are not good. A lot of the literature which I'm familiar with hails straight from the Victorian era; I'm hoping for something a little more modern and a little less didactic.

I've read Sasha Baron-Cohen's book, as well as that one by Roy Baumeister. Both were pretty decent; I especially liked Baumeister. I was wondering if you psych majors had any recommendations.

 

[Kmal]

For discussion
Good-efficient, leads to growth, open, straight to the point
Evil or bad- not efficient, crooked, leads to destruction, hidden from view

 

[aeon]

the truth remains -- some things which we encounter in life are good, and others are not good.

And that truth is only so for the person who judges things as such.

Outside of this context, evil and good do not exist.


cheers,
Ian

 

[CindyLou]

Read 'em...blech I studied evil quite a bit the past... so much I'm convinced I see it in everyone. (cept myself of course)

Something more modern? Hmm...well, its late...I'm in bed and all I can think of is "People of The Lie"?

skip chapter 5...just pretend it was never written; don't even look at it

Try to balance it out with good. I don't know. Some things are not worth knowing. You can't really un-know something and it can affect your decision to have kids, things seem so bleak.

Can I ask why the fascination? Did you have an encounter with someone/thing?

 

[alice144]

Why do people behave badly? If I can't model their actions via my own psychology, I need some help.

 

[5r6jhd]

The Bible.

 

[ImpureHedonism]

Why do people behave badly? If I can't model their actions via my own psychology, I need some help.

Because either they (1) evade what they know to be harmful to themselves or beneficial to themselves, or (2) they are honestly mistaken in believing they're acting good, or (3) they like destruction for its own sake, or (4) they are actually behaving well, but you're judging wrongly. 2 and 4 are quite similar, and differ only in terms of whose judgment is wrong.

 

[Billy]

For discussion
Good-efficient, leads to growth, open, straight to the point
Evil or bad- not efficient, crooked, leads to destruction, hidden from view

I disagree... all growth is painful. Growth leads to pain, and in that case pain and destruction are good as they clear a path for more growth. Demonizing "evil" and praising "good" is nonsensical to me since they are subjective terms. I cringed every time George Bush said "evil" or "axis of evil" or "evil doers" I mean for fucks sake, we're not in 3rd grade.

 

[Billy]

Why do people behave badly? If I can't model their actions via my own psychology, I need some help.

Well I dont think they think theyre doing anything bad.

 

[Nixie]

Response to why do people behave badly

You are showing bias to presume
1. That one's own view of the situation is the "good" interpretation while the other person is the "bad" one.
2. That you both have to agree with one another
3. That you both can't be wrong
4. That you both can't be right
5. That each party has a complete understanding of the situation as it stands

 

[Kmal]

I disagree... all growth is painful. Growth leads to pain, and in that case pain and destruction are good as they clear a path for more growth. Demonizing "evil" and praising "good" is nonsensical to me since they are subjective terms. I cringed every time George Bush said "evil" or "axis of evil" or "evil doers" I mean for fucks sake, we're not in 3rd grade.

Pain is good in the evolutionary sense that it teaches us to avoid it, but its bad cuz it sucks. In that light, pain and destruction don't lead to more pain and destruction because the majority of people are willing to learn from it. Have you achieved some sort of objective view point that negates all subjective things or do you just not like people having opinions on subjective things? Calling someone evil is like casting a curse on them in your mind, because your heart is set on finding more evidence of their evilness. It becomes a reflection at that point, you're casting your evil on others, but its yours.

 

[the]

...all growth is painful...

No. Plenty of things grow without suffering pain. Plenty of people grow without suffering.

 

[CindyLou]

Pain is good in the evolutionary sense that it teaches us to avoid it, but its bad cuz it sucks. In that light, pain and destruction don't lead to more pain and destruction because the majority of people are willing to learn from it. Have you achieved some sort of objective view point that negates all subjective things or do you just not like people having opinions on subjective things? Calling someone evil is like casting a curse on them in your mind, because your heart is set on finding more evidence of their evilness. It becomes a reflection at that point, you're casting your evil on others, but its yours.

I don't understand what you're trying to say here, but I really want to. Think you could try it again, in a way I could get it? Why do you think that is what's happening when people label evil? I've only labeled two people "evil" but doing so seemed to give me a little control back over the situation. Are you saying I saw myself in them?

 

[Billy]

No. Plenty of things grow without suffering pain. Plenty of people grow without suffering.

Then I would say they aren't growing. They only think they're growing. Creation is intimately linked to destruction. you cannot have 1 absent threads of the other.

 

[toska]

Why do people behave badly? If I can't model their actions via my own psychology, I need some help.

I've encountered people who get off on dominating, degrading, and humiliating others (I'm talking about in real life, not kinky sex) and they were either abused as children or feel rejected by society. It makes them feel powerful and in control again I guess.

 

[Billy]

Pain is good in the evolutionary sense that it teaches us to avoid it, but its bad cuz it sucks. In that light, pain and destruction don't lead to more pain and destruction because the majority of people are willing to learn from it. Have you achieved some sort of objective view point that negates all subjective things or do you just not like people having opinions on subjective things? Calling someone evil is like casting a curse on them in your mind, because your heart is set on finding more evidence of their evilness. It becomes a reflection at that point, you're casting your evil on others, but its yours.

People calling anything evil are obviously not very bright. There is no such thing as evil, evil is a point of view and so is good. Its cool to use in a poetic sense, but most people dont mean it that way, they mean it in the "this is something I disagree with, obviously its wrong and bad". I disagree with this sentiment. While I may see many things as bad or even harmful I am not presumptuous enough to really label it evil and mean it, its just too idiotic.

 

[alice144]

I guess that defining 'evil', as well as deciding whether it really exists is part of the problem. Deciding that evil is not part of our lives is too laissez-faire, it implies a lack of standards. Then again (quite obviously) dividing everything up between those that are 'good' and those that are 'evil' implies black-and-white thinking, which is a sign of immaturity. My opinion is that evil exists, but that very few things, if anything is purely evil, while there is very rarely anything which is purely good.

Thanks for the reading recommendations, you guys.

 

[mysolitude]

Well I'm on a roll tonight replying to things so why not hit one more. Evil is the polarity of good. One doesn't exist without the other. Humans are fundamentally flawed and we aren't meant to be without sin (if you want to put a religious spin on it.) I often find myself questioning the evil within myself. We all have it, whether we choose to except it or not. INFJ's are especially unique in the whole sliding value scale that suites their needs. I've fallen into this one a couple of times and thought myself so evil. I'm not though, just a little in need of perspective.

 

[5r6jhd]

I should have really posted longer! I Was well serious about my suggetion of the bible.

I'm not religious, but I did study theology. The bible is full of insane evil.

 

[CindyLou]

People calling anything evil are obviously not very bright. There is no such thing as evil, evil is a point of view and so is good. Its cool to use in a poetic sense, but most people dont mean it that way, they mean it in the "this is something I disagree with, obviously its wrong and bad". I disagree with this sentiment. While I may see many things as bad or even harmful I am not presumptuous enough to really label it evil and mean it, its just too idiotic.

Oh ok. Lol. But you are not being presumptuous at all when you label those that use the term evil as "obviously not very bright" . You're not being dishonest, intellectually unsophisticated, and...no...you are not presumptuous or egotistical at all. Lol. How did you get around to getting to "I'm not presumptuous enough" lol

Why don't you tell these people that they are "obviously not very bright" and "idiotic" who use the label?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Swinburne
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_Baron-Cohen
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Merrihew_Adams
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alvin_Plantinga
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dallas_Willard
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M._Scott_Peck

I'm not being unfriendly but don't know who to antagonize you a little about that without sounding like a bitch in text. Friendly antagonizing.