gifted kids | Page 3 | INFJ Forum

gifted kids

This is kind of hard to discuss without becoming excessively snobbish.

I've noticed, over time, that I have different interests. Interests which someone who is not as smart will not also enjoy. The 'no one will understand me' paradigm is true, then not true. I think that everyone will be able to understand everyone at some level, but then some people won't understand certain thoughts I have, or why I think them, or what it feels like to think those thoughts. Again, this is not an issue of 'better', but rather 'different'.

And maybe even if they did understand, they wouldn't care. That's where the difference is not smarts or intelligence but simple interest.

And simply because someone doesn't understand the intricacies of something doesn't mean they don't understand it. You may understand the minutiae or minute details while they see the overall idea which doesn't make them less smart but different in perspective. Just because I don't get physics doesn't mean I can't get philosophy.
 
That's where the difference is not smarts or intelligence but simple interest.
...

Just because I don't get physics doesn't mean I can't get philosophy.

Right, but dumb people aren't going to be interested in physics OR philosophy.
 
Right, but dumb people aren't going to be interested in physics OR philosophy.

No, they learn to not be interested in physics or philosophy.
Just like they learn that they are 'dumb', and you seemed to learn that you are 'smart'.
It's called self-efficacy.
 
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Right, but dumb people aren't going to be interested in physics OR philosophy.

define "dumb"? If you're speaking about someone's supposed inability to understand or process physics or philosophy, is that because you think their IQ is in a range that is considered below average intelligence? Hasn't it been proven that someone of seemingly below average intelligence can have extremely high levels of capacity or ability in other areas, surpassing most of the population? And are we speaking of intellect vs. social competence? Someone can have high intellect but be considered dumb because they are seemingly lacking in social skills or simply don't talk much about their intellectual understanding or maybe don't like to discuss it with other genius intectuals such as yourself, and may prefer living a life with the lower beings of this world, choosing to operate on a slightly more dismal, and clearly more simplistic plane of understanding. Yet however mediocre this existence maybe, perhaps they are satisfied with this choice.
 
Just like they learn that they are 'dumb', and you seemed to learn that you are 'smart'.

Yeah, everything's relative, okay... Sometimes I wonder if these are only social constructs, too. But we could deconstruct 'dumb' and 'smart' forever and not make any progress towards resolving this discussion; can't we simply agree to settle on the 'traditional' meanings of these words?


other genius intectuals such as yourself

Yes! That's me!


and may prefer living a life with the lower beings of this world, choosing to operate on a slightly more dismal, and clearly more simplistic plane of understanding. Yet however mediocre this existence maybe, perhaps they are satisfied with this choice.

This isn't life 'on a lower plane', this IS life. Intelligent people tend to be drawn towards complexity, which is why they are more likely to enjoy physics or philosophy. I prefer to be around people who have those interests, because then we can discuss them, which is fun. What are we arguing about again? I'm feeling a little lost.
 
Yeah, everything's relative, okay... Sometimes I wonder if these are only social constructs, too. But we could deconstruct 'dumb' and 'smart' forever and not make any progress towards resolving this discussion; can't we simply agree to settle on the 'traditional' meanings of these words?




Yes! That's me!




This isn't life 'on a lower plane', this IS life. Intelligent people tend to be drawn towards complexity, which is why they are more likely to enjoy physics or philosophy. I prefer to be around people who have those interests, because then we can discuss them, which is fun. What are we arguing about again? I'm feeling a little lost.

My intelligence is advising me to leave this thread.

Shut up.
 
Right, but dumb people aren't going to be interested in physics OR philosophy.

I beg to differ. Dumbasses can be interested in physics or philosophy; sometimes because they're genuinely interested and sometimes because they want to seem intellectual.
 
Yeah, everything's relative, okay... Sometimes I wonder if these are only social constructs, too. But we could deconstruct 'dumb' and 'smart' forever and not make any progress towards resolving this discussion; can't we simply agree to settle on the 'traditional' meanings of these words?

You completely missed the point, and the impact of a word can have a huge bearing on someone's entire identity.

So no, we can't agree on the 'traditional' meanings of words, especially words that basically define how someone is treated by their teachers, parents, peers, etc.
 
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From what I remember, the gifted program was just a big joke. The same could be said for Kumon and Oxford Learning and all those other 'enhanced learning centers' catering to the expansion of young gifted minds. Other than a few more homework questions and the constant suggestion that you're guaranteed to succeed because you're (supposedly) that much smarter than everyone else, these programs didn't utilize methods or teach material that was all that drastically different from public school programs. The same strategy applied. Whether it took you three hours or fifteen minutes to complete your assignments, as long as you did the work, it was A for effort. (And let's be serious here, none of those assignments took any real effort at all).

I'm sure I'm not the only one who has noticed a rather troubling trend recently. The majority of the 'gifted' kids I know or heard of ended up becoming shut-ins and/or are leading lives that are insulting to their level of intellect. Many of these 'youngest and brightest' became addicted to drugs, alcohol and video gaming. Back when I had Facebook, my friend's list was littered with examples of these deadbeat gifted kids and from what I could tell, none of them were happy. They frequently expressed interest in changing and had big goals, but for some reason were unable to pick themselves up and pursue the success they deserved. And as much as it pains me to say it, I'm honestly not surprised.

Academia encompasses a great majority of a person's developmentally crucial years. While it's true that kids do respond well to structured environments, the entire problem with the education system is that it chiefly panders to the lowest common denominator and thus obliterates any chances of developing the self-discipline and independence necessary for kids to mature into successful and self-sufficient adults once that structure is taken away. Think about it. Even the so called 'average' intelligence kids can manage to skate by if they are quick to discover and employ the 80/20 rule. And while it might be nice to give a kid a pat on the back and a temporary boost of self-esteem for having the 'natural' intelligence to pass a test with minimal effort, in the long term it ends up doing more harm than good. Aside from not gaining any true depth of knowledge, this 'easy ride' attitude is also a quick way to breed low frustration tolerance, which any psychologist worth his/her salt, would tell you is the crux of a majority of psychological issues (ADD, anxiety and depression, to name a few) and self-discipline problems that disable people from being able to deal with life's inevitable challenges.

Intelligence, after all, can only take you so far. It means absolutely nothing if your learned character flaws prevent you from carving out a meaningful existence for yourself in which you can successfully apply all those smarts. Unfortunately, this happens to be a very common fate for those who expect that an above average IQ is worth anything by itself.

The gifted program is a really nice idea, but it (and indeed the entire education system itself) is very poor in practice.
 
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You completely missed the point, and the impact of a word can have a huge bearing on someone's entire identity.

So no, we can't agree on the 'traditional' meanings of words, especially words that basically define how someone is treated by their teachers, parents, peers, etc.

/thread
 
If I may interject into this rather fascinating semantical debate...

What we have here, is a failure to communicate! Some [individuals] you just can't reach...

In Alice144's defence, she is both accurate and inaccurate. Accurate in the inwardly perceived context with which she uses the terms. Inaccurate in the outwardly perceived potential context of the terms by others. Her usage of smart, dumb and intelligent are only parts of a whole that she does not fully know how to communicate in a succinct manner that others would understand and so chooses to use broader simpler terms instead. If people find the inappropriate use of words to be offensive, I assure you it is unintentional. Even the construct of her arguments would appear to be immature condescension and arrogance, again, I assure you that is also unintentional.

There is a general misunderstanding by all parties, to various degrees, in the understanding of IQ, intellligence, smart, etc (within the context of the semantical debate with Alice144). What Alice144 means in the usage of smart or intelligence is that she connects more easily with those who have a higher level reasoning/understanding, specifically those that share similar interests in the topics that Alice144 enjoys. The best (or only) place where she has thus far discovered to find such individuals are at University. That is not to say that those who score lower on an IQ test, or have a lower education level would be able to communicate with her at her desired level of understanding, it is that she has come yet to come across one such person that can. Given the low statistical probability that she would randomly cross paths with one such person that can communicate on a level of understanding in the wide range of topics that she desires, it is as if it were a non-existent possibility. Given that University presents a much higher probability to find such intellectuals, and the highly improbability of other individuals with the desired characteristics, it is much easier to say smart or dumb, than convey all that I have explained.

There are varying challenges and differences at the much higher intelligence levels. There is a significant difference between average, gifted, genius, etc. It may lead to isolation, but not always. It becomes far more difficult to convey complex ideas succinctly in ways that others can understand. That does not mean that everyone who has an IQ of 140+ will automatically understand, but the probability is higher.

Sidenote: Interestingly, the level of understanding of someone with an approximate IQ of 160+, would make an individual with an IQ of 140, look retarded.

Why do I think my assumptions of Alice144's intentions are accurate (or at least not far off)? I have similar challenges. It is infuriating. It is often difficult to find the correct words to convey a complex nonverbal understanding of a concept (and I have found that many such words/expressions do not exist). The label of calling others 'dumb' (and has a far wider connection of meanings than I'm about to use) is in part an ego self-defence mechanism. Or in Jung's terms, projecting the shadow unto others. It is not so much that others are dumb (though in part it is, but without the harsh judgemental connotation that you are probably associating with the word) it is that we feel dumb for not being able to communicate what seems to be a rather simple concept to us in terms that others can understand. An INFJ often develops a strong command of metaphor to convey these things. Unfortunately, I skipped that class. And an ENTP's dominant Ne function probably couldn't be bothered wasting time simplifying, when they can be moving on to the next idea.

To sum up, she is unintentionally applying broad generalizations, in a socially unacceptable manner, to convey deeper, complex arguments.

Interesting fact about Paladin-X -- highest educational level achieved? High School Diploma, completed in Adult Ed no less. Just to throw a wrench into your arguments on University-educated intellectuals...

./lawyered :D
 
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I was in one of those when I was a kid. Book learning was easy enough for me, not so easy for some of my friends in the same program. It seemed like an obvious way of separating the troublemakers from the ones who didn't start shit. The only benefit to being 'gifted' was I could drag ass and ignore studies and still get good grades for most of my pre-college education.

There wasn't any interest in knowledge or improving intelligence until I got older, when it was no longer about grades and state requirements.
 
This thread is hilarious.
 
...What is this thread made for? /confused like confused.
 
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...What is this thread made for? /confused like confused.

images
 
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Probably discussion.
I dunno how the topic shifts so quickly...I mean, at first it looks like a discussion / a sharing thread, but arriving at the third page I suddenly am greeted with dissections....

........Which is fine, personally, but...

You know.
Disconcerting.
 
I dunno how the topic shifts so quickly...I mean, at first it looks like a discussion / a sharing thread, but arriving at the third page I suddenly am greeted with dissections....

........Which is fine, personally, but...

You know.
Disconcerting.

I see what you are saying. I just blame the new people.
 
The fast-paced world of boarding can be confusing. Just gotta roll with it.