The poit of this thread is for me to test out if I'm starting to grasp the concepts and rules(or lack there of) of philisophy. I gladly welcome constructive criticism, how ever if your thoughts are along the lines of "oh look the little christian thinks he's a philosopher" then please keep said thoughts to yourself. So feel free to rip me apart as long as you have the intention of rebuilding me. I figured if I'm going to start i mas well start big and so i decided what could be bigger then God. 1st premise A: the universe exist B: things that exist have a cause of existence conclusion: that the universe must logicaly has a cause of existence 2nd premise A: the universe has a cause of existence B: no thing is it's own cause of existence Conclusion: the universe must of had cause of existence seperate from itself 3rd premise A: the universe has a seperate casue of exsistence B: a cause must be greater then it's effect conclusion: the caue of the universe is greater then the universe 4th premise A: energy is finite B: causes require energy Conclusion: the amount of causes must be finite 5th premise A: all things have a cause B: causes are things Conclusion: all causes have a cause, there are an infinite amount of causes 6th A: there are an infinite amount of causes B: the amount of causes must be finite Conclusion: contraditiction, there must be an initial cause that does not require energy, does not have a beginning, and is greater then its effect 7th A: there is an initial cause that does not require energy, does not have a cause, does not have beginning, must be greater then it's effect(the universe) Conclusion: this cause is God I'd like to state that this has no bearing on any particular religion(but does have bearing on a large amount of religions) and at best is a diestic claim.