Fe Traps.
- Thread starter Trifoilum
- Start date
I totaly agree with the OP
I once followed a shiatsu course where I had to live with a group of people a whole week. We where told that our normal diete is not very healty and it is better to eat macrobiotic. All the sudden the whole group took over this idea and started to act like they where macrobiotics already (even though at home they eat normal). And since I didn't follow the new social rule, every time I complained about the foot I got a reply from someone about how healty it is. They didn't tell me their own opinions, they just repeated what they had heared from the teachers and repeated it to me.I
really hate that. Every time I come in a new group I have to find out what the social standards of that group are so I can prevent breaking a rule. Because when you brake such a rule you are being imoral, wrong or selfish.
In my opinion their are a lot of viewpoints on morality and all of them has some truth in them. I just try to be openminded to all and change my own moral code if necessary. But I will never take over the code of a certain group. Only if it is necessary to survive I pretend that I am complained to the code
I once followed a shiatsu course where I had to live with a group of people a whole week. We where told that our normal diete is not very healty and it is better to eat macrobiotic. All the sudden the whole group took over this idea and started to act like they where macrobiotics already (even though at home they eat normal). And since I didn't follow the new social rule, every time I complained about the foot I got a reply from someone about how healty it is. They didn't tell me their own opinions, they just repeated what they had heared from the teachers and repeated it to me.I
really hate that. Every time I come in a new group I have to find out what the social standards of that group are so I can prevent breaking a rule. Because when you brake such a rule you are being imoral, wrong or selfish.
In my opinion their are a lot of viewpoints on morality and all of them has some truth in them. I just try to be openminded to all and change my own moral code if necessary. But I will never take over the code of a certain group. Only if it is necessary to survive I pretend that I am complained to the code
Yup.
I've met heavy Te users who used elaborate cartoon slapstick, tried to poison my drink and shit.
It's not common, but the hardest part is actually believing that it exists.
Te would predict peoples' actions (the way they assume they will act) to use against them
Fe could predict their values to use against them. It's more "personally" oriented in this way.
(And the whole social norm spider web thing OP talked about. Te would try that too, but less carefully spun and more..."deliberate" and blunt, maybe)
Add Ne for using intuitive feeling to predict a person's actions, or Ni for focusing on how the situation might go
Fe could predict their values to use against them. It's more "personally" oriented in this way.
(And the whole social norm spider web thing OP talked about. Te would try that too, but less carefully spun and more..."deliberate" and blunt, maybe)
Add Ne for using intuitive feeling to predict a person's actions, or Ni for focusing on how the situation might go
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Agreed.
Regarding social norm webs, indeed Te users when using morality tend to be very blunt and obvious about it. (for stereotypical example; the fratboys claiming "Bros before hos!")
A friend (that's, let's just say, experienced about this) does give a helpful side; most often, when playing with webs, Fe users are trapping themselves within their own webs. (under the name of 'honorable', 'being moral') Which is often true. I mean, no one likes to be a hypocrite / be called a hypocrite. This is very closely related to Fi, btw
It's another side of how there's a small tendencies for Fi user to expect other people to follow or at least understand their own morality.
I have recently meant some weird, creepy ENFJs. (Not like other ENFJs I've known) I don't if this is what you mean, but it feels like all their emotional gestures are carefully calculated, empty, hollow expressions aimed at a certain target with no purpose other than to elicit a certain specific emotional response from the target. It's like they have no real, genuine, heartfelt emotion. Creepy. *shudder*
It...is, I guess, taking your words as truth, though.....the way you described it seems almost pathological. >_>; More like emotional mimicry than anything else.
I'd think that this kind of thing happens every single time, regardless of intentions and awareness.
My 70 year old housemate does this all the time. Although, she might be becoming slightly senile at the same time.
Good thing I'm okay with being a douchebag and pretending I don't catch on to the emotional traps.
i know exactly what you mean by this
In debates I tend to harmonize with the other's knowledge structure and attack the weak points using their vocabulary, their own statements, etc. It works pretty well except when someone else comes in who missed the original context and so they are like 'this isn't really a good way to say it..' and I'm like 'omg! I know that! I'm saying it that way because that's how he/she would have said it! just go away!'
Is that the sort of thing you mean?
Is that the sort of thing you mean?
If I were to judge, to say it wrong would be faulty, but...
That's pretty direct; thus I get a sense of combinations. Fe + Ti (the speaking part), I think.
Of course, that's personal experience-based observation. Soo...
[MENTION=3998]niffer[/MENTION] : omg senility what tell me moar XD
Manipulating the social process of a conversation when the other person doesn't know it should be used sparingly. Even if I'm working with a less functional client in group therapy, such manipulation should eventually be followed up with actual comments on the quality of the discussion ("You seem to be carrying on about the same subject. That makes me somewhat uncomfortable."). Otherwise, why do it? That's the nadir of narcissism.
True enough, albeit I don't know how much of it must qualify for becoming a symptom of narcissism...I think it's quite natural? (Or not?)
Some people have a great grasp of social awareness like you do...others don't. That goes both ways, for the user and receiver.
I think I see where you're coming from. This is how I see it: There's a difference between social awareness and attempting to bend someone's perception outright. As INFJs, we're always analyzing others' demeanors and behaviors to figure out their levels of healthy functioning--nothing wrong with that. That's just healthy boundaries for us. The question then becomes how much we use that detached demeanor when engaging the other person. If "analyzing" mode is still on, one can appear too much like a facile trickster and potentially make the other person uncomfortable. From what I've seen, even if the person isn't entirely aware of what's going on, there's still going to be some feeling of the other person being sucked into my end.
And yes, this is coming from someone who is really guilty of this. There's that commitment thread I made for one big example. I'm also thinking of toska's experience when I say this, because I've been on the receiving end from people like that too. Narcissism (which is different from anti-social) can be extremely subtle, but I think that's the substance that creates our invisible shields when we're around others. We actually end up manipulating ourselves more than the other person, in terms of how we should perceive things. Who knows? Maybe that ESTJ co-worker has some good things to say if I get on the right groove with him just by speaking his language. It's simply a matter of being more active on my part.
Of course, that's the big trick for us INFJs. :lol: When it comes to emotional/social perception, everyone has the automatic transition, while we get to have the manual stick.
And yes, this is coming from someone who is really guilty of this.
There's that commitment thread I made for one big example. I'm also thinking of toska's experience when I say this, because I've been on the receiving end from people like that too. Narcissism (which is different from anti-social) can be extremely subtle, but I think that's the substance that creates our invisible shields when we're around others. We actually end up manipulating ourselves more than the other person, in terms of how we should perceive things. Who knows? Maybe that ESTJ co-worker has some good things to say if I get on the right groove with him just by speaking his language. It's simply a matter of being more active on my part.Of course, that's the big trick for us INFJs. :lol: When it comes to emotional/social perception, everyone has the automatic transition, while we get to have the manual stick.
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Don't remember if I replied to this thread or not, but anytime I've seen the topic, I always think of Gandhi. I mean, his entire movement was based off of laying these Fe traps. Peaceful protests and non-violent resistance that would make others have to feel something.
You can say no. I would have said well I don't want to. But then again I am an INTJ we tend to be blunt.
Reviving this thread just because it's been almost 3 years.
For older people, do you find your views changed?
For newer people, what do you think?
I personally have experienced quite a lot; spread some Fe traps, hit by some. I must admit that reading this is quite a refreshing course. *dissecting again*
For older people, do you find your views changed?
For newer people, what do you think?
I personally have experienced quite a lot; spread some Fe traps, hit by some. I must admit that reading this is quite a refreshing course. *dissecting again*