Fe Traps. | INFJ Forum

Fe Traps.

Trifoilum

Trifoilum

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Dec 27, 2009
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Have any of you noticed this?

I personally noticed that Fe users* (or those with enough knowledge of Fe-related subjects, such as social norms, values, and morals) have an uncanny ability to lay...certain traps. Conscious or not. Oh, totally emotional blackmailing, but it's different. It's not...defensive. Nor is it passive aggressive. Most emotional blackmailing is like, 'do this to me and WATCH ME SUFFER, so follow me, dammit.' This isn't. It's subtle, it's gentle and it's...aggressive. Using the social norms, morals, etiquette, propriety and standings, they lay thin webs, one web after another. It's not about 'hurting them', but it's about being immoral.

The masters subtly layered actions after actions, statements after statements, implications layering, to create an almost invisible link of something, for the lack of word, best described as 'proper' and 'moral'. Cross the layer and it'll be rude, immoral, and improper. Sometimes it can become simply awkward. Or making the speaker's words ineffective, for rudeness sometimes dispels the content.

Any comments? Am I just imagining things? Or am I wrong in attributing this to Fe?

*Myself included.
 
Like double binding people? I do that I hate that about myself... it robs me of the pleasure of having a real conversation with someone I know. I will often lead the conversation into a territory where they are uncomfortable force them into a line of reasoning or thinking that contradicts what I know are their core beliefs OR forces them to abandon what they are doing at that time to adhere to them, then act like I am hurt that they were not consistent. The goal of course it to make them feel guilt and shame so they will follow my lead... The better I know someone the easier it is to do this, I try not to do it, but sometimes I do it without even noticing it.
 
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Billy said:
Like double binding people? I do that I hate that about myself... it robs me of the pleasure of having a real conversation with someone I know. I will often lead the conversation into a territory where they are uncomfortable force them into a line of reasoning or thinking that contradicts what I know are their core beliefs OR forces them to abandon what they are doing at that time to adhere to them, then act like I am hurt that they were not consistent. The goal of course it to make them feel guilt and shame so they will follow my lead... The better I know someone the easier it is to do this, I try not to do it, but sometimes I do it without even noticing it.
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One of them, yes. But you seems to describe it pretty well it quite terrifies me o_o;
 
I tole you guys that Fe was EVIL!!!!! Long live Fi!
 
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Billy said:
Hey Fi can be evil and scary too! Instead of manipulation you use force!
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You are projecting your evil Fe ways onto my beautiful Fi ways [MENTION=1451]Billy[/MENTION]. Stop please, you are hurting me...:(
 
Sonya said:
You are projecting your evil Fe ways onto my beautiful Fi ways @Billy . Stop please, you are hurting me...:(
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You know who else thought Fe was more evil then Fi? Hitler, do you want to be like Hitler?
 
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Now you are calling me Hitler? Your evil Fe is making me terribly sad [MENTION=1451]Billy[/MENTION]. Why would you do something like this to me? My Fi tells me that we are supposed to be friends and friends don't treat each other so....*cries*
 
Sonya said:
Now you are calling me Hitler? Your evil Fe is making me terribly sad @Billy . Why would you do something like this to me? My Fi tells me that we are supposed to be friends and friends don't treat each other so....*cries*
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Well Fe is evil and poisonous dont forget. YOU WILL BEND TO MY WILL!
 
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Billy said:
Well Fe is evil and poisonous dont forget. YOU WILL BEND TO MY WILL!
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Now you want me to bend to your will??? Okkkkaaayyy I'm gonna stop there... :0
 
Do not be afraid, dear one. Our will is good. ;)
 
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My ISFJ mother and grandmother are master of Fe traps. They would ask me for a favor and almost immediately they will add, "but you don't have to do it, only if you want to. Except, you're the only one who can...but you don't have to."

There is no way for me to say no, even if I wanted to. Their guilt manipulation works wonders >.<
 
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I don't know if that's necessarily a Fe thing, but it sounds like it. From my personal observations, Fi-types would be pretty equipped to do this too, but they generally tend to be much more aggressive when pushing their social agendas. Fe-types, on the other hand, prefer to adapt to their audience for diplomatic results... catching more flies with honey than vinegar, so to speak.

In either case, I can openly admit to doing this. Sometimes directly confronting a person about the issue is not the soundest strategy; some people are just emotionally volatile and dramatic, and are allergic to anything that looks like constructive criticism. Some are textbook examples of oppositional defiance--they won't follow advice or consider a perspective simply because its coming from somebody else-- and some people in general just need to be handled with kid-gloves, period. Regardless of the case, if this is information that is going to benefit the person or the group as a whole, it needs to be conveyed somehow. And if the person happens to 'stumble upon' the information and is lead to the conclusion that it was his or her idea, chances are, the tactic might work just as effectively as a direct confrontation at sun down, fifty-paces.

It's not passive-aggressive (although it can certainly quickly escalate to such) because it's not an expression of anger or punishment, but rather, a form of diplomatic leverage. It's a gentle nudge in the right direction; food for thought and is basically a function of knowing your audience.

Then again, it doesn't always work. Some people won't benefit from anything but a good battering with a clue-by-four.
 
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I do find Fi/Te users to be capable of great manipulation, however, if I sense it, I will call them out on it.

I agree with TDHT's honey vs. vinegar bit. This is the only tactic I respond to, myself.
 
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technics said:
So what happens when I say "I don't want to"? Because I'm usually honest with these things.
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With Fe, it is implied that when they say, "you don't have to" it means, "you have to, [otherwise I'll resent the fact that I do everything for you and you won't even do a single favor to me.]"...or at least that is how it feels when they say it.
 
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[MENTION=3096]Sonya[/MENTION] and [MENTION=1451]Billy[/MENTION] : gahahahahahaha, and here I was expecting more. :p
[MENTION=678]AUM[/MENTION] : ouch, that too is another flavor. Pretty scary. ;| I often countered it with other webs of my own. *bitter laugh*. "You think -that- is rude, really? Aren't you the one being rude? Aren't your implications the one with a fault?"
[MENTION=1360]TheDaringHatTrick[/MENTION] : yeah, I totally can understand your reasoning. Agreed. In this case, Fi users are often more attached, Fe users...tend not to be. Agreed, it's not passive-aggressive (the other flavor -is-).And agreed, it's knowing your audience.

It's a nudge all right, only often as subtle as a whisper of a hammer. Especially when you're not agreed with the basis of the Fe being used (clash of Ti).
*watches the sky* all the more reason I'm bad at politics.
 
"subtle as a gun." ;)
 
I'd have to disagree with Billy's Idea of a Fe trap, that's a basic debate strategy, hell that's basic military strategy, take your opponent out of their strengths and then lay into them. In terms of standardized debating it's also dirty unless you've led them into a already agreed upon topic and they just didn't inform themselves about it.

I would think a Fe trap would be one that plays on the feeling or the harmony of the group, say I'm hanging out with a bunch of guys and there is one guy in particular I don't like, but every one else does. I happen to know that he is a hard core fan of rap music, which is almost sacrilegious in this group. Knowing this I guide the conversation into music which leads to the rest of the group asking what kind of music the does the one guy like, he goes into huge thing about how he loves rap and goes on non-stop for the next fifteen minute about it.

The next time the group goes out, he doesn't get invited. No physical or verbal confrontation, just using group norms as a tool against someone. No one would even know that you did it on purpose.
 
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