Fe/Fi: Pandora's Box?

[Questingpoet]

There is always a lot of discussion on the mythical "Ni", as it is powerful (our primary mode) and hard to pin down. The other thread on Ni is bleeding into a discussion on Fe/Fi which I was considering starting a thread on anyways. I'll post a few thoughts on my Fe/Fi and let you guys chime in from there.

Let's start with a couple definitions first:

Fe seeks social connections and creates harmonious interactions through polite, considerate, and appropriate behavior. Fe responds to the explicit (and implicit) wants of others, and may even create an internal conflict between the subject

 

[Billy]

I hate Fe, I have very very weak Fi and massively Overpowered Fe which in my life has lead me from one bad decision to another. Whether it was putting other peoples superficial needs over my important ones or sticking it out with someone who I was afraid to hurt by leaving.

 

[enfp can be shy]

Guys, (i mean infjs)

according to the theory /which we can't fully trust../ you aren't supposed to be using much Fi. What if your dilemma is between:
Fe
Ni>Fe

I imagine them as mechanical devices which push/pull each other. So always when your Ni operates it is pushed by your Fe. Thus feelings become the trigger for:
introverted interaction = Ni>Fe
extroverted interaction = Fe

I mean, feelings really drive any of the two directions of interaction, which doesn't necessarily mean there's (significant amount of) Fi there.

At least for myself can say that Fi / Te is a judging force that is behind all my drives more or less, it depends on how I channel it. My (Ne>Fi) can look like (Fe) sometimes, because I just put my Fi in the shoes of the other person and express my intuition on how to please them. It doesn't work as good as pure (Fe), just like (Ni>Fe) doesn't work as good as (Fi), but maybe these pairs can resemble each other.

 

[Morgain]

There is always a lot of discussion on the mythical "Ni", as it is powerful (our primary mode) and hard to pin down. The other thread on Ni is bleeding into a discussion on Fe/Fi which I was considering starting a thread on anyways. I'll post a few thoughts on my Fe/Fi and let you guys chime in from there.

yeah, sorry about that!

what I found the best definitions are:

Fi : Feeling people makes decisions based on feelings, so the Introverted Feeling function allows a person to know what they value. It is the ability to see through others and know what they are really like as if they had an internal radar. When it identifies a person with similar values there is a desire to connect.

Fe: Feeling people make decisions based on feelings, so the Extraverted Feeling function allows a person to adjust their behavior to the needs of others. Is it the ability to relate and the desire to connect with others with warmth and consideration. It draws others out and responds to expressed or unexpressed needs.

Ne: Intuitive people process data through impressions, possibilities and meanings, so the Extraverted Intuition function allows a person to see different path or ways. When information comes in, different possibilities are thought of, realizing that there is always another way of looking at things.

Ni: Intuitive people process data through impressions, possibilities and meanings, so the Introverted Intuition function allows a person to have a sense about the future. It is the ability to grasp and get a sense of a pattern or plan. Information that is usually hard to understand and dissect is easily processed through Introverted Intuition.

Fi is like taking in the vibes of the outside world, the underlying emotions, and take them inside to determine how I feel about the world, how the world influences me and how I feel about that. With Fi I can determine if someone is autentic or not, Is that smile a real one or just fake. A lot of times I'm very confused because there is no correspondance between what a person is saying and what Fi is feeling. And than I don't know how to react. People tell me I'm very judgemental, that I judge people even if I don't really know them. But there seems to be an antenne on my head that yells "fake smile, fake smile" and than I'm allready discusted, sorry :shocked:. I have got a very high sence of value, harmony and autenticity. But I myself am not always authentic to others because what people think of me, or how the tread me has a huge impact on how I feel.


I don't use Fe very much. I think it is really knowing the needs of others (while Fi knows that there is something wrong but is more interesting in how that affects him instead of wanting to help the person). Fe talks over the feelings and needs of others and put them before there own needs. They may feel the needs of others more than there own. But you can correct me if I'm wrong

Ne is about seeing and feeling all the possibilities. It is keeping all options open untill the right moment approaches to go inside, feel wich option gifs the best feeling and than go for it (but still living all other paths open). I thought I was very determined in decissions but know I see I'm not. I have like 5 very different careers in my head, and I prepared myself to be able to change my path to one of them when the time calls for it. Also about opinions. I will view a situation from all possible angles. Like "should a murderer been executed", I have no fixed opinion about that, I can give my opinion from the murderers point of view, from the victims, the family, the community, or from a more elevated point of view.

EDIT: to add what i have been reading

Fi: is being creative and spiritual, having a deep connection with the soul. And having deep values and being very sensitive for injustice. The problem can be that Fi is used to view the outside world and just taking in that what supports the values within. But in this way the outside world is not seen in an objective way.
Ne is the objective tool to view the world, to understand the world and people better.

 

[sookie]

This is where I just get lost. I get the Myers Brigg in a general way. When it gets broken down further.....You loose me. I am interested. This is a tough one for me to figure out.

 

[Moxie]

I agree with Sookie. I get totally confused too, but am still interested.

 

[Gaze]

yeah, sorry about that!

what I found the best definitions are:


Fi is like taking in the vibes of the outside world, the underlying emotions, and take them inside to determine how I feel about the world, how the world influences me and how I feel about that. With Fi I can determine if someone is autentic or not, Is that smile a real one or just fake. A lot of times I'm very confused because there is no correspondance between what a person is saying and what Fi is feeling. And than I don't know how to react. People tell me I'm very judgemental, that I judge people even if I don't really know them. But there seems to be an antenne on my head that yells "fake smile, fake smile" and than I'm allready discusted, sorry :shocked:. I have got a very high sence of value, harmony and autenticity. But I myself am not always authentic to others because what people think of me, or how the tread me has a huge impact on how I feel.

. . . . . .

Fi: is being creative and spiritual, having a deep connection with the soul. And having deep values and being very sensitive for injustice. The problem can be that Fi is used to view the outside world and just taking in that what supports the values within. But in this way the outside world is not seen in an objective way.

Ne is the objective tool to view the world, to understand the world and people better.

This makes sense. Very helpful.

 

[gloomy-optimist]

Fe is the chipper class president that works hard to meet the needs of their classmates and blames themselves when things go wrong, or the housewife that makes sure things are in order for the good of her family and neighborhood.

Fi is the rebellious human-rights activist that works hard to make sure they have their own vibe and are all for individualism, or the slightly odd yoga instructor that spends large amounts of time finding and cultivating the "true emotions" and has strong, personally assigned values.

 

[Morgain]

Fe is the chipper class president that works hard to meet the needs of their classmates and blames themselves when things go wrong, or the housewife that makes sure things are in order for the good of her family and neighborhood.

Fi is the rebellious human-rights activist that works hard to make sure they have their own vibe and are all for individualism, or the slightly odd yoga instructor that spends large amounts of time finding and cultivating the "true emotions" and has strong, personally assigned values.

yes that is spot on!!!

 

[Kaipaus]

With Fi I can determine if someone is autentic or not, Is that smile a real one or just fake.

That's interesting. I just recently took an online test that measured how well I could tell fake smiles from real ones. I scored 18/20 which was quite high. My dad, for example, got only ten out of twenty correct. So does this indicate that I use Fi quite a lot? Or are Fe users able to tell authentic and fake smiles apart, as well?

I don't usually evaluate wether people are "real" or "fake" when I interact with them (unless someone is REALLY fake, brainless and two-faced, like Tyra Banks on ANTM) but it seems that I can evaluate it pretty accurately if I want to.

 

[Morgain]

That's interesting. I just recently took an online test that measured how well I could tell fake smiles from real ones. I scored 18/20 which was quite high. My dad, for example, got only ten out of twenty correct. So does this indicate that I use Fi quite a lot? Or are Fe users able to tell authentic and fake smiles apart, as well?

i don't know, or maybe your Fi is pretty hight too?

I don't usually evaluate wether people are "real" or "fake" when I interact with them (unless someone is REALLY fake, brainless and two-faced, like Tyra Banks on ANTM) but it seems that I can evaluate it pretty accurately if I want to.

for me it is a huge thing. I always evaluate if what someone says or how someone acts is true. Are they really true to there deeper self, does what they say represend the values inside of them. The sad thing is, almost always it feels superficial, because a lot of people dont have such a deep values as I have and always appears superficial... A friend of mine is ENFP so here major function is Ne. She always sees oportunities and new interests. She looks to me like a bouncing ball changing colors each time she its the ground. Each time I see her, I have to wait and see whitch color is on now. I can't understand how she can change her opinions and interests so drastic. I would discribe that as superficial. There is no, or almost none underlying value or depth on whitch she bases her actions.

 

[Tamagochi]

Hmm... First of all, Morgan - I think I'm starting to grasp your point following the discussion we have had yesterday You seem to take notice of events outside and then strongly feel them inside - that looks very much like Fi. Then having difficulties at expressing your own emotions also hints towards low Fe.

I'm no expert and could be wrong on this (heck, the whole theory can be wrong as well). The best I can explain it is through a little personal history. I think I've always been INFJ but at different stages in life tried different types for myself. And during high-school I was INFP (or at least appeared to be) When interacting with people I was constantly bothered what would they think of me, constantly aware of very subtle nuances in emotional atmosphere. Anything could set me of and I've avoided any conflict. I've felt very strong internal reactions to feelings, to what is just and what is not. There were so much emotional depth that even I could not see the bottom of it. And I had no idea how to communicate it all for the world. So how do I know that I'm not INFP? Because I was deeply unhappy with this, it felt like being in a prison. I am a strong doer of things and wanted to reach out, to make connections, to change things rather than daydream about them.

Then during college years I've switched to INTJ mode But again I was not happy. It was finally then that I've encountered an ENFJ girl - and it had suddenly clicked: that was what I've been looking for. She made connections in a very unusual way which had deeply resonated within me. It had changed my whole perception of what Fe is.

As Von hase once wrote: Fe is invisible, Fi is visible. First of all Fe is sharing your own emotions with others - if you're happy then you show that you're happy, if you're sad - then show that you're sad. It means being the same inside and outside regarding feelings. Second, Fe is also at work when you sense feelings and needs of others. That's empathy. So if two people meet one expresses an emotion, the other receives it, then emits their own emotion and so forth. And that's all that there is to it.

Usually we associate Fe with something we see on soap operas but it's not very appropriate. Quite often it is Fi on display there but as secondary function.

Regarding Fi, it's users do not care what others think about them - they just know what's right for them inside. And they usually don't like putting their values on display, don't talk about them. Boundaries are very important for Fi. They believe that their values should manifest themselves through their actions and not through hugs - that's why fruits of Fi are visible while Fe is dispersed and invisible. And of course Fi users have little idea on how other people feel.

You can watch any of these movies to see what I'm talking about: Into the wild, Motorcycle diaries, Okuribito. All of them have Fi dominant main characters. Their internal values are very visible, they are terrible at pleasing other people and I was completely unable to identify myself with them. They felt somehow "backwards"

According to the site infjorinfp.com there's a buzz word that resonates with Fe - "appropriate". Buzzword fo Fi is "evil".

Furthermore according to the theory Ni and Fe combined could create a Fi mode for oneself but it's still not the real thing.

 

[Jupiter]

Fe is the chipper class president that works hard to meet the needs of their classmates and blames themselves when things go wrong, or the housewife that makes sure things are in order for the good of her family and neighborhood.

Fi is the rebellious human-rights activist that works hard to make sure they have their own vibe and are all for individualism, or the slightly odd yoga instructor that spends large amounts of time finding and cultivating the "true emotions" and has strong, personally assigned values.

Nice, accurate. I like the instructive caricature there.

 

[Tamagochi]

Fe is the chipper class president that works hard to meet the needs of their classmates and blames themselves when things go wrong, or the housewife that makes sure things are in order for the good of her family and neighborhood.

Fi is the rebellious human-rights activist that works hard to make sure they have their own vibe and are all for individualism, or the slightly odd yoga instructor that spends large amounts of time finding and cultivating the "true emotions" and has strong, personally assigned values.

That's an example of a bit unhealthy Fe usage as it leans towards being a martyr and manipulation. But it fits.

One can become a human rights activist to fight injustice (Fi) or to spread the love(Fe).
Posted via Mobile Device

 

[Morgain]

Hmm... First of all, Morgan - I think I'm starting to grasp your point following the discussion we have had yesterday You seem to take notice of events outside and then strongly feel them inside - that looks very much like Fi. Then having difficulties at expressing your own emotions also hints towards low Fe.

Yes that is it, you got it wiehie

And during high-school I was INFP (or at least appeared to be) When interacting with people I was constantly bothered what would they think of me, constantly aware of very subtle nuances in emotional atmosphere. Anything could set me of and I've avoided any conflict. I've felt very strong internal reactions to feelings, to what is just and what is not. There were so much emotional depth that even I could not see the bottom of it. And I had no idea how to communicate it all for the world. So how do I know that I'm not INFP? Because I was deeply unhappy with this, it felt like being in a prison..

Yes this is exactly who I am. It is funny that it makes you feel in a prison while I enjoy it, when Fi is not to strong. I have been reading this site (http://www.personalitypage.com/INFP_per.html) It says that when Fi is used in that extant that it overshadows Ne they become very sensitive to critizism and they can't view the world in an objective manner. Ne views the world objective, Fi sees everything according to how it influences the person. You need Ne to have an open and clear perspective of the world and other people

Regarding Fi, it's users do not care what others think about them - they just know what's right for them inside. And they usually don't like putting their values on display, don't talk about them. Boundaries are very important for Fi. They believe that their values should manifest themselves through their actions and not through hugs - that's why fruits of Fi are visible while Fe is dispersed and invisible. And of course Fi users have little idea on how other people feel.

I can reach out and sense the feelings of others, so use Fe, but it make me forget my values and it feels like losing my roots, like I'm homeless. It can take a huge effort to get that connection back, so now I'm guarded not to lose the touch with my values :becky: because that makes me a better person. for me it is very hard to talk about my values and emotions. It is like nobody ever grasp it. When they try to explain, it is diminished. I also can't show my true emotions because they are to strong, it will upset people.


how does your Fe and Ni interact?

You can watch any of these movies to see what I'm talking about: Into the wild, Motorcycle diaries, Okuribito. All of them have Fi dominant main characters. Their internal values are very visible, they are terrible at pleasing other people and I was completely unable to identify myself with them. They felt somehow "backwards" .

I don't know them. I'll go to the videostore :becky:

 

[Gaze]

I have been reading this site. http://www.personalitypage.com/INFP_per.html) It says that when Fi is used in that extant that it overshadows Ne they become very sensitive to critizism and they can't view the world in an objective manner. Ne views the world objective, Fi sees everything according to how it influences the person. You need Ne to have an open and clear perspective of the world and other people.

This explains it well.

I can reach out and sense the feelings of others, so use Fe, but it make me forget my values and it feels like losing my roots, like I'm homeless. It can take a huge effort to get that connection back, so now I'm guarded not to lose the touch with my values :becky: because that makes me a better person. for me it is very hard to talk about my values and emotions. It is like nobody ever grasp it. When they try to explain, it is diminished. I also can't show my true emotions because they are to strong, it will upset people.

how does your Fe and Ni interact?

This is a good description of what i experience, the need to balance Fe and Fi. My Fi suffers quiet a bit when exercising Fe, and it usually works against my effectiveness as a person.

 

[Tamagochi]

I can reach out and sense the feelings of others, so use Fe, but it make me forget my values and it feels like losing my roots, like I'm homeless. It can take a huge effort to get that connection back, so now I'm guarded not to lose the touch with my values :becky: because that makes me a better person.

And for me being a better person means to reach out and connect Fi is like standing firmly on the ground, while Fe is jumping up and flying away with the winds. I love that feeling of being up high. This is how I've always wanted to be.

Though I must admit that from time to time I do fall back to Fi because that's the place where my creative juices and all the goodies come from And I'm actually grateful for that INFP period because it allowed me to have a solid backbone on which to build my life. We surely need both of those processes.

how does your Fe and Ni interact?

Hmm I think that during conversations Fe constantly informs me of how the other person feels while Ni quietly double-checks it. That way I am able to determine if that person speaks the truth for example. Then I've also worked out a very powerful technique that combines Ni, Fe and Ti to achieve intelligence amplification. When I shared it with my INFP colleague for some reason he did not like it at all

Ni+Fe combo sometimes can produce undesirable effects as discussed here.

 

[Morgain]

This explains it well.



This is a good description of what i experience, the need to balance Fe and Fi. My Fi suffers quiet a bit when exercising Fe, and it usually works against my effectiveness as a person.

Like you are carried away with every new person you come across, feeling what they feel, like you change yourself to help them better??

 

[Morgain]

And for me being a better person means to reach out and connect Fi is like standing firmly on the ground, while Fe is jumping up and flying away with the winds. I love that feeling of being up high. This is how I've always wanted to be.

Though I must admit that from time to time I do fall back to Fi because that's the place where my creative juices and all the goodies come from And I'm actually grateful for that INFP period because it allowed me to have a solid backbone on which to build my life. We surely need both of those processes.

nicely put. What doesn't mean that Fi doesn't connect, it is I think on an other level than Fe. And the compassionate feeling is inside and not only visible.

I'm wondering how it whould be to meet an INFP. I think there will be not much conversation. I think we will stare at eachother and know we are the same. I think I will see a firm closed person, but when I look sharper, I will see this sensitive but oh so gentle and carring inside that will stream outside when I switch the right buttons.
I think my boss must be INFP (lol, this is my second guess already). When I talk to him, sometimes I look at him, and he at me, and somethings changes. It is like our eyes connect and I feel that my soul is looking throug my eyes. It is not that I know what he feels, I never know because he is a concrete bunker. But when our eyes connect I see so much softness in his eyes, it is really lovely to see, I completely melt :becky:

I can not imagine that feeling you discribed of taking of and fly away. Freedom for me is what the zen boedhists say: staying in your center and watch the world around you change.

I very much like this talk :kiss:

 

[Gaze]

Like you are carried away with every new person you come across, feeling what they feel, like you change yourself to help them better??

Not entirely, but in some sense yeah. I can get easily carried away with overwhelming personalities, not knowing where i begin and one person ends, shaping myself to what is expected. This leads to people pleasing or overemphasis on Fe to the detriment of Fi. Another thing i find with myself, is that i tend to be more subdued in social/public setting because i don't want to overwhelm anyone with how intense i can be. Although i appear fairly calm and relaxed online and in public/social settings, i wasn't always this way of course. We can't always act on impulse and feeling in any case.

I was extremely focused on Fi early on and didn't value Fe as much, but now i recognize the importance of developing Fe, as my profession requires it, but i've also learned to value Fi, as a way of understanding who i am and what i need as a person.