enneagram type 4
- Thread starter Morgain
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I've been reading up on Enneagram some more, and I have to say that 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, 8, and 9 all apply to me pretty well, with 7 and 3 also having some applicability. In other words, I could be any of these, and yet none of them really apply to me.
4 seems the closest, but there is a lot about it that just isn't me - like I really don't care if I'm unique. In fact, I quite like it when I'm not. It just happens that I usually am. I have no control over that.
My chiropractor is really into Enneagram and teaches conferences on it. He's convinced I'm an 8. I've read the description, and it fits as well as any of the others really. I'm just not as adversarial as the descriptions imply. However, he once asked me a series of questions that were geared toward getting to the bottom of who I am, and launched into a series of responding to each of my answers with "why?" and the more and more I clarified, the more I came down to one thing at the bottom... "Because if I don't, no one will love me." He said that's a very 8 thing to say, but to me it sounds just as much like 2 or 4. According to him, those three types are strongly related, and the difference is in how they get what they need. 8s are the strong individual, where as 4s are the soft individuals... personalitywise. He asked me what I'd do if he all of a sudden he started emotionally challenging me very aggressively, and I had to admit I wouldn't back down an inch, and would take it as far as he would push it, all the way down to a brawl in the office... because he was mock doing that, but projecting some aggressive emotion, and my insides bolstered right up reflexively, and I was ready to bounce him off the walls. He said that's the reaction of an 8 or a 1, not a 4.
Do any of you confirmed fours have instincts or reactions like that? Do you tend to meet a challenge head on, get really angry when people challenge you and dig your heels in more? Are you the type that will fight and not back down if pushed? Do you find yourself frequently holding yourself back from cussing people out or beating them up when they push you emotionally? Or, do you reflexively back down, step back, or dodge the issue as best as you can?
4 seems the closest, but there is a lot about it that just isn't me - like I really don't care if I'm unique. In fact, I quite like it when I'm not. It just happens that I usually am. I have no control over that.
My chiropractor is really into Enneagram and teaches conferences on it. He's convinced I'm an 8. I've read the description, and it fits as well as any of the others really. I'm just not as adversarial as the descriptions imply. However, he once asked me a series of questions that were geared toward getting to the bottom of who I am, and launched into a series of responding to each of my answers with "why?" and the more and more I clarified, the more I came down to one thing at the bottom... "Because if I don't, no one will love me." He said that's a very 8 thing to say, but to me it sounds just as much like 2 or 4. According to him, those three types are strongly related, and the difference is in how they get what they need. 8s are the strong individual, where as 4s are the soft individuals... personalitywise. He asked me what I'd do if he all of a sudden he started emotionally challenging me very aggressively, and I had to admit I wouldn't back down an inch, and would take it as far as he would push it, all the way down to a brawl in the office... because he was mock doing that, but projecting some aggressive emotion, and my insides bolstered right up reflexively, and I was ready to bounce him off the walls. He said that's the reaction of an 8 or a 1, not a 4.
Do any of you confirmed fours have instincts or reactions like that? Do you tend to meet a challenge head on, get really angry when people challenge you and dig your heels in more? Are you the type that will fight and not back down if pushed? Do you find yourself frequently holding yourself back from cussing people out or beating them up when they push you emotionally? Or, do you reflexively back down, step back, or dodge the issue as best as you can?
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I have been thinking abou this uniqueness too. I find it very selfish and egocentric to think that you are unique. In fact I don't want to be unique, I want to be part of something, but I always feel like I'm unique and I don't do this on purpose. If I'm really honest with myself I have to admit that in all my actions and conclusions I always try to prove my uniqueness. Everywhere I go, in every group I'm part of, I notice the difference between me and the other. Even if people really are much like me, I will always focus on what we have not in common. I don't do this on purpose, it just happens that I notice.
what doesn that mean, soft individuals?
I don't understand exactly what you mean with emotionally challenging and what your reaction is but
When I'm challenged my reaction depends on the situation and the people involved. When people challenge me I get angry or hurt unless I feel stable and secure enough to not care to much, then I laugh with it and play along. When I get angry I can get agressive and stubborn and I hold my opinion no matter what (even if I know I can be wrong). When I get hurt I close up and become very silent and withdrawn. I think it is all because of my low self security. If someone challenges my personality, try to convince me I'm different than I think, or that I'm wrong about something I deeply believe in, I don't know very well how to defent myself. So I become to defensive, or I become to little defensive and surrender.
4w5 here as well.
I had my doubts at first, but reading numerous times about how it can tie into 1 and 2, really hit home for me, especially when it came to taking perfectionism and helpfulness to possibly unhealthy levels. Yep, that's me all right. I am always convinced that my brain is wired to some strange configuration or even has faulty wires.
I had my doubts at first, but reading numerous times about how it can tie into 1 and 2, really hit home for me, especially when it came to taking perfectionism and helpfulness to possibly unhealthy levels. Yep, that's me all right. I am always convinced that my brain is wired to some strange configuration or even has faulty wires.
I relate very much with the type 4 descriptions (not to the part about becoming annoyingly friendly when depressed though, I turn inwards and brood when that happens, which is down to my 5 wing I'd imagine), and I've found it a very useful tool when it comes to improving my sense of well-being. It's not easy being us, but it can be very rewarding.
ohhh.. so now I know why I'm reeeaaaalllyy friendly when I'm sad
) ) ) I like making new friends. I love meeting other people but it's true I become annoyingly friendly when depressed ) )I notice that I become extra friendly when I don't feel connected to my friends. I also know that this feeling of losing connection started with my parents. I never feel loved and wanted and I always feel rejected and easily replaced (I guess it's not a four thing bwahahha)
I had myself mistyped as a 5 for quite a while (apparently this can be common?), but I am absolutely and without a doubt a 4. A heavy 5 wing, but very much still a 4. I'm a self preservation variant also. I think part of me just didn't want to admit that I was a 4, being a 5 sounded better somehow. But 4w5 has been my more consistent result, and really makes more sense.
I relate to every single thing said about 4's. And to be honest, in a lot of ways it seems to explain me better than the INFJ description does...
I relate to every single thing said about 4's. And to be honest, in a lot of ways it seems to explain me better than the INFJ description does...
I would be really interested in studying other 4 wing 5 people more closely. To learn how similar we are in thinking, and perhaps find the differences. I also have the belief that a person who is thinking like me would probably not be as judgmental. I am convinced that if I were to meet myself, I wouldn't dislike this person. Now thats quite a paradox considering my abrasive self loathing at times. I guess its more the plight I find myself in, rather than me myself I loath I guess. Anyway, it would be interesting to find out if an encounter with a similar type would be a pleasant one. Right now I would say that I would respect a 4 wing 5 type for their integrity and authenticity. I find myself very honest and self aware. I think it would be interesting sharing a conversation with another "sibling", their view on life and the such.
Haha [MENTION=637]Ragnarkisten[/MENTION], I feel like if I met myself I would think I was a bitch, unless we managed to actually converse on a somewhat deep level. But given how I am pretty antisocial and avoidant, that'd be unlikely. I'd maybe be thinking something like "Man, she's awfully quiet and rather disgruntled looking..she must be judging me...damnit!" Maybe not though. Maybe I'd think "ahhh she hates the world, just like me, a kindred spirit...(lol)" I definitely have the tendency towards self loathing that I hear can be prevalent in 4s... I can rationalize that it is illogical and counterproductive to feel this way, but the feeling will not leave. Occasionally, by pure strength of my own will, I can tell it to fuck off for long enough to cheer myself up and make the change I need to get out of that evil cycle. But it's tough getting there, and it's easy for me to fall out of...
I can definitely be judgmental of others sometimes in my mind (not proud, but if I were to be honest...) but in practice and on principal I'd like to think I'm one of the least judgmental people I know. I'm definitely a believer that everyone has the right to be themselves. I might not agree with the things they like or believe in, but they have a right to believe those things. And the more "real" someone is the more respect and admiration I have for them, regardless if their views are completely opposite of mine. At least they have no shame and aren't trying to hide who they are from the world, or themselves, which is worst of all.
I'd like to think I'm pretty self aware, and integrity and authenticity are definitely important to me. But, different company will bring out a lot of different sides of me. It depends on the energy they give off. Maybe that's true with everyone?
I can definitely be judgmental of others sometimes in my mind (not proud, but if I were to be honest...) but in practice and on principal I'd like to think I'm one of the least judgmental people I know. I'm definitely a believer that everyone has the right to be themselves. I might not agree with the things they like or believe in, but they have a right to believe those things. And the more "real" someone is the more respect and admiration I have for them, regardless if their views are completely opposite of mine. At least they have no shame and aren't trying to hide who they are from the world, or themselves, which is worst of all.
I'd like to think I'm pretty self aware, and integrity and authenticity are definitely important to me. But, different company will bring out a lot of different sides of me. It depends on the energy they give off. Maybe that's true with everyone?
I feel vindicated by the description. It's hard being so "alone" in the world, no matter how many people I can relate to. Even "INFJ" is only a foot in the door.
Jealousy is almost like a permanent demon inside me. Not kidding. But when I see myself as complete, I actually do feel that rare feeling of connectedness with people -- i.e., the kinds of people I have wanted to connect with --- so that I'm able to converse with them as if they were actually on a similar wavelength. Even so...
People rarely seem to be on the wavelength. Usually it's only a very select few. Sure, there are thoughts and feelings that some people can relate to, but being in the same "groove" and conversational compatibility is extremely rare.
Jealousy is almost like a permanent demon inside me. Not kidding. But when I see myself as complete, I actually do feel that rare feeling of connectedness with people -- i.e., the kinds of people I have wanted to connect with --- so that I'm able to converse with them as if they were actually on a similar wavelength. Even so...
People rarely seem to be on the wavelength. Usually it's only a very select few. Sure, there are thoughts and feelings that some people can relate to, but being in the same "groove" and conversational compatibility is extremely rare.