enneagram type 4

[Morgain]

who of you as tested as a enneagram type 4 and how well does this type describe you?

what do you think are the major treads for a type 4 and how well does they apply on you?


this is what I got so far:

- feeling that you are different than the rest
- the lost of the contact with its essence during childhood causes a deep longing for something more, connection and belonging and the feeling of being uncomplete
- romantic and creating a fantasy world, searching for an idealistic world, something to make you complete again
- jalous because other people seem to be happy and content
- don't see the good things in your life, only the things you are missing (and would give you the feeling of being complete at last), you always want what you don't have
- your strenght is your creativity, passion, sensitivity to the feelings of others, emotional depth
- becomes a 2 when unders tress: a forced friendlyness and impose themselves on others

Inside the dramatic emotional facade of the 4 there is a bossy, judgemental 1-child. One that aims for justice and honesty and make sure that everyone does what they have been told to do. It wants to be perfect and gets defensive when someone points out something imperfect. It is difficult for the 4 to acknowledge this child inside of him, even hating himself for it but accepting it is the key to healing, to see that everything around us is already perfect, even the 4 himself. When he incorporate this child within, he will see that he is pure and briljant and beautiful and whole and connected already and he can stop searching for connection outside of him. The little perfectionist will transform in a brilliant feeling of completeness and elegance and instead of living a life of jealousy and melancholy and longing for connection, he will discover that the completeness he is searching for, is already inside of him.

translated from http://www.aan-de-basis.nl/prgk_oktEnneagramType4.html

 

[Morgain]

I have the feeling that this is me exactly. It describes me much better than the MBTI. It is like it describes my live into detail

I truely feel that I have lost the contact with my essence/god. This makes me long for that connection again, long for oneness and the lag of it makes me melancholic and desperate. It gives me fear of being left alone and it also makes me jealous because other people seem to have that kind of connectedness and I have not. They seem to have less depth than me but seem te be able to be content nevertheless and that reminds me of what I am missing: connection. When I don't pay attention I will go and search for it in the wrong places, being to demanding of people, seaking to much in relationships and I always end up desapointed and rejected because it never is what I was searching for and so the search continues. That rejection makes me want to improve myself because apparently I'm incomplete. It also makes me very sensitive to what people think of me and it hurts a lot when I'm rejected or forgotten and jealous when other people are rewarded and I am not. When I go down this negative path, I become very judgemental about other people. I get angry when someone points out that I'm not good enough while they are making mistakes themselves

the cure for me is to learn to be content with what I have and to search for that connection within myself. To stop to try to be perfect, stop being angry when people point me on my inperfectionism and instead notice that I am perfect the way I am and that I'm always connected with my essence, I only couldn't see it because my focus was directed outwards. This makes my live more passionate, see the beauty in all things and lets my creativity blossom

 

[Gaze]

I have the feeling that this is me exactly. It describes me much better than the MBTI. It is like it describes my live into detail

I truely feel that I have lost the contact with my essence/god. This makes me long for that connection again, long for oneness and the lag of it makes me melancholic and desperate. It gives me fear of being left alone and it also makes me jealous because other people seem to have that kind of connectedness and I have not. They seem to have less depth than me but seem te be able to be content nevertheless and that reminds me of what I am missing: connection. When I don't pay attention I will go and search for it in the wrong places, being to demanding of people, seaking to much in relationships and I always end up desapointed and rejected because it never is what I was searching for and so the search continues. That rejection makes me want to improve myself because apparently I'm incomplete. It also makes me very sensitive to what people think of me and it hurts a lot when I'm rejected or forgotten and jealous when other people are rewarded and I am not. When I go down this negative path, I become very judgemental about other people. I get angry when someone points out that I'm not good enough while they are making mistakes themselves

the cure for me is to learn to be content with what I have and to search for that connection within myself. To stop to try to be perfect, stop being angry when people point me on my inperfectionism and instead notice that I am perfect the way I am and that I'm always connected with my essence, I only couldn't see it because my focus was directed outwards. This makes my live more passionate, see the beauty in all things and lets my creativity blossom

I've never taken the Enneagram test, but I can relate to so much of what you've said.

 

[TurtleTrooper]

4s are awesome. they are like amazing creative and artistic. i dont necessarily think no longer looking for connections anywhere would be the best bet, maybe just be more realistic about it? Know that whatever it is can't and won't complete you as a person. Also, avoid being a neurotic basterd.

 

[Morgain]

4s are awesome. they are like amazing creative and artistic. i dont necessarily think no longer looking for connections anywhere would be the best bet, maybe just be more realistic about it? Know that whatever it is can't and won't complete you as a person. Also, avoid being a neurotic basterd.

nope, being more realistic doesn't help because the empty feeling remains and it makes you only more melancholic. The only thing that helps is to realise that the connection is already there in yourself, you just have to open the door. When you realise this you can see how everything is connected and be satisfied with the relationships you have

avoidance is never a good method to solve a problem, the problem will remain there, hidden and will only grow. You have to look at the problem and find out what the cause is. And the cause to the type 4 problems is "lost of connection" (according to the description)

 

[TurtleTrooper]

nope, being more realistic doesn't help because the empty feeling remains and it makes you only more melancholic. The only thing that helps is to realise that the connection is already there in yourself, you just have to open the door. When you realise this you can see how everything is connected and be satisfied with the relationships you have

avoidance is never a good method to solve a problem, the problem will remain there, hidden and will only grow. You have to look at the problem and find out what the cause is. And the cause to the type 4 problems is "lost of connection" (according to the description)

Oh. Thanks for clearing that up for me. That just sounds really hard I guess.

 

[Gaze]

nope, being more realistic doesn't help because the empty feeling remains and it makes you only more melancholic. The only thing that helps is to realise that the connection is already there in yourself, you just have to open the door. When you realise this you can see how everything is connected and be satisfied with the relationships you have

avoidance is never a good method to solve a problem, the problem will remain there, hidden and will only grow. You have to look at the problem and find out what the cause is. And the cause to the type 4 problems is "lost of connection" (according to the description)

This^^^ is very true. The cause is either loss of connection or not having the chance to establish a connection at all. Very difficult.

 

[DefectiveCreative]

'Nother Type 4 checking in.

I relate very much with the type 4 descriptions (not to the part about becoming annoyingly friendly when depressed though, I turn inwards and brood when that happens, which is down to my 5 wing I'd imagine), and I've found it a very useful tool when it comes to improving my sense of well-being. It's not easy being us, but it can be very rewarding.


Best enneagram site I know of can be found here btw: http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/descript.asp

 

[Morgain]

'Nother Type 4 checking in.

I relate very much with the type 4 descriptions (not to the part about becoming annoyingly friendly when depressed though, I turn inwards and brood when that happens, which is down to my 5 wing I'd imagine), and I've found it a very useful tool when it comes to improving my sense of well-being. It's not easy being us, but it can be very rewarding.

defective creative, now I finely understand the meaning of your username :w:

I'm also a 5 wing but I do the annoyingly friendly move a lot. And the more they ignore me the more insecure I feel and the more and the more I impose myself. And when they do react in a friendly way I never believe that they mean it because at that moment I so deeply believe I'm defective!

tell me more about how you improved your sense of well-being and how it is rewarding to be us?

 

[VH]

I found a good test and a good site, and it turns out I'm a 4w5 also. The description was so accurate it made me a little nauseous. Until then I had always tested as 1 and 2 (sometimes 8), and had decided that I was a 1w9 because it sounded the closest. Then I read about how 4 ties into 1 and 2, and 5 ties into 8, and that was pretty much all I needed. It all became clear. I'm even more typical of an INFJ, than previously considered.

@DC: Same here about the being friendly when depressed. I withdraw.

 

[Gaze]

And the more they ignore me the more insecure I feel and the more and the more I impose myself. And when they do react in a friendly way I never believe that they mean it because at that moment I so deeply believe I'm defective!

I do this too and I know it annoyes the person more when i impose on them, but yet, just as you said, because there's a feeling of inadequacy or defectiveness, you still keep pushing hoping to get them respond. Thought i was the only one. lol. I'm going through this with a friend right now. But seeing this definitely makes me feel a lot better.

Yeah, when someone is friendly, i pretty much turn off. It's almost insulting because I think they're faking or overdoing it just to be nice. So, yeah.

 

[VH]

You might find this chart helpful. It shows the commonality of various Enneagram types to MBTI types.

View attachment 2977

 

[Morgain]

I found a good test and a good site, and it turns out I'm a 4w5 also. The description was so accurate it made me a little nauseous. Until then I had always tested as 1 and 2 (sometimes 8), and had decided that I was a 1w9 because it sounded the closest. Then I read about how 4 ties into 1 and 2, and 5 ties into 8,

yes exactly! I can also find myself in 1, 2, 5 and 8. But I know that when I act like one of them (especialy 1 or 2) it is in a negative way. All the explanations about how a 4 can turn into a 1 and 2 sounds EXACTLY like me. It was like reading my own biography, the good things, the bad things and the sugestions for improvement!

how does it make you more of a typical INFJ?

 

[VH]

how does it make you more of a typical INFJ?

See the chart above. 4 is the most common type for INFJs and INFPs.

 

[Morgain]

the chart makes a lot of sense! It gives even an extra dimension to MBTI IMO


do you guys feel jealous sometimes, not because you don't want other people to be happy but that you think they have found something that you are still looking for while you have not?

 

[Gaze]

the chart makes a lot of sense! It gives even an extra dimension to MBTI IMO


do you guys feel jealous sometimes, not because you don't want other people to be happy but that you think they have found something that you are still looking for while you have not?

Yep. And i hate that i think this way. Sometimes it's hard to be happy for a friend because they have what you've wanted and been patiently waiting for, for a long time.

 

[DefectiveCreative]

defective creative, now I finely understand the meaning of your username :w:

The funny thing is I came up with that username before I'd ever even heard of the enneagram. :lol:

tell me more about how you improved your sense of well-being and how it is rewarding to be us?

That site I linked to has some great advice for how to overcome the negative aspects of being a type 4, like you said in your post the big trick really is to accept that there isn't anything missing inside you, you were always complete and always lovable just as you are. To learn to trust in your own innate goodness.

@DC: Same here about the being friendly when depressed. I withdraw.

I wonder if the variants have anything to do with that? (I'm a social variant, FWIW).

do you guys feel jealous sometimes, not because you don't want other people to be happy but that you think they have found something that you are still looking for while you have not?

Oh God yes!

 

[VH]

I don't feel jealous so much as it makes it hurt more that I don't have it.

I wonder if the variants have anything to do with that? (I'm a social variant, FWIW).

I'm not very familiar with Enneagram yet, but I can't tell if I'm social or sexual variant.

 

[Morgain]

That site I linked to has some great advice for how to overcome the negative aspects of being a type 4, like you said in your post the big trick really is to accept that there isn't anything missing inside you, you were always complete and always lovable just as you are. To learn to trust in your own innate goodness.

yes exactly, amen! ;-) it is only so hard to remember in the heat of the battle

I wonder if the variants have anything to do with that? (I'm a social variant, FWIW).

I don't know, I'm a type 5 as well and I could concider myself social too

Oh God yes!

Yep. And i hate that i think this way. Sometimes it's hard to be happy for a friend because they have what you've wanted and been patiently waiting for, for a long time.

o god thank you! I have been feeling miserable about it for so long! I feel horrible when it happens to me. Like when my brother is going to live together with is girlfriend. I want to be happy for him but all I can think of is "I want to live together with someone too, wheiweiwei!"

How do you deal with it?

 

[DefectiveCreative]

How do you deal with it?

I try to have patience. A big part of that jealousy comes from this fear we have that we're unlovable, that we're just not good enough, etc. I find that if I trust in myself, that as long as I continue to be the best me I can be, then I have more faith that those things will come to me when I'm truly ready for them, was indeed they often do. (Or so I like to think. ). And that helps free me to be more genuinely happy for other people when they get what I want. :lol:

EDIT: It's also important to remember that there's a difference between "need" and "want", and we can often think that what we want is what we need to fill that non-existent hole.