ENFJ Helpline
- Thread starter VH
- Start date
This is incredible, Von Hase. I was just thinking of starting a thread asking for hints from ENFJ males on the forum. When I read your description of ENFJs in the first post of this thread, you described my b/f down to the ground, even some of the quirky things I haven't read elsewhere.
Our history is a long one; we've known each other for 13 years, first as acquaintances, and later as friends. Then one day. seemingly out of the blue, he said he loved me and always would. He also said he'd never been in love before, whatever that means, though he was 73 and had been with many women before we met. I guess I wonder sometimes if he just thinks this is what I need to feel secure (it isn't). Despite an idyllic relationship of nearly a year, he has said from time to time that he believes someday I'll betray him, though he won't elaborate on how I'll do that.
I know he's been quite scarred by three major events in his life: the loss of his entire family (a very happy, loving one) at age 15, two tours in Vietnam, and having to adjust to becoming a paraplegic at age 30. Maybe these affect his ability to trust.
On the other hand, he also says I am selfish and self-absorbed (both true) and he's been strongly encouraging me to take more responsibility for the people--and animals --who depend on me. I've been making a serious effort to do so and some fairly significant people in my life have noticed a difference in my behavior of late. It's still an effort, not something that comes naturally to me, but neither is it something that feels bad. And he's saying now he's beginning to trust me a little.
He's supposed to be moving in with me and my roommate in a couple months and I worry a little that the people he spends so much time helping will now be 45 minutes away by bus and that with just my roomie and me to help, it won't be enough for him, especially because we're both very independent women. I mean, he can repair our wheelchairs, build things for the house (he's an amazing craftsman), and scrape my ample fanny off the floor when I fall, but I don't know that it'll be enough for him. He's wonderful with my son, who has schizoaffective disorder and he comes over twice a week, so maybe that will help. I want this ornery, stubborn, loving old man to be happy here. Any tips on the care and feeding of an ENFJ?
Our history is a long one; we've known each other for 13 years, first as acquaintances, and later as friends. Then one day. seemingly out of the blue, he said he loved me and always would. He also said he'd never been in love before, whatever that means, though he was 73 and had been with many women before we met. I guess I wonder sometimes if he just thinks this is what I need to feel secure (it isn't). Despite an idyllic relationship of nearly a year, he has said from time to time that he believes someday I'll betray him, though he won't elaborate on how I'll do that.
I know he's been quite scarred by three major events in his life: the loss of his entire family (a very happy, loving one) at age 15, two tours in Vietnam, and having to adjust to becoming a paraplegic at age 30. Maybe these affect his ability to trust.
On the other hand, he also says I am selfish and self-absorbed (both true) and he's been strongly encouraging me to take more responsibility for the people--and animals --who depend on me. I've been making a serious effort to do so and some fairly significant people in my life have noticed a difference in my behavior of late. It's still an effort, not something that comes naturally to me, but neither is it something that feels bad. And he's saying now he's beginning to trust me a little.
He's supposed to be moving in with me and my roommate in a couple months and I worry a little that the people he spends so much time helping will now be 45 minutes away by bus and that with just my roomie and me to help, it won't be enough for him, especially because we're both very independent women. I mean, he can repair our wheelchairs, build things for the house (he's an amazing craftsman), and scrape my ample fanny off the floor when I fall, but I don't know that it'll be enough for him. He's wonderful with my son, who has schizoaffective disorder and he comes over twice a week, so maybe that will help. I want this ornery, stubborn, loving old man to be happy here. Any tips on the care and feeding of an ENFJ?
Last edited:
Since we're not sure that he's an ENFJ, but seems like one, I need to make clear that my advice is based on my own experience as an ENFJ. He might be. He might not. Take the advice I give with a little skepticism as to its validity.
I've noticed that ENFJs feel like they've never been as much in love with who they are in love with at the moment. We're idealists and want the person we love to be our one and only true love. Apparently, this even persists into old age. I believe this is because when relationships end for us, we catalogue that person in our hearts as not having been our one true love - obviously, or else it wouldn't have ended. We're idealists. If he is an ENFJ, he's telling you that he's afraid of being wrong about this when he says things like he's afraid you'll betray him. Because we are so idealistic, our insecurities can run very deep when the world has proven to us time and again that it fails us.
I can't describe how badly all of that would have devastated and destroyed me. I would have become an extremely sarcastic and cynical grumpy unpleasant person, but I still would have been the same caring man at my core. I've been through something very difficult lately, and I already started to slip into that mode. A few of my friends see that it is just my exterior though, and that underneath it, I'm one of the kindest most loyal friends they've ever known, despite seeming like a right bastard sometimes.
One thing I know that ENFJs excel at is helping people achieve their potential. We can see their potential as plain as day, and are usually amazing at knowing which buttons to push to get them there. We're also able to push them, even if it's not going to be easy for either of us, because we know it is the right thing to do. If he's pushing you, and you can see the benefit of it, then that means he's right and he cares about you. We don't push people that hard unless we really care.
It sounds to me like you have a very good handle on this already. All of your concerns are valid. ENFJs need people to care about. Lots of them. If he's computer literate, I would definitely suggest getting another web browsing computer set up in the house for him to interact on. Even if he's not especially favorable to the idea at first, the lack of people to interact with and care about in his current setting will draw him in. You said he's 73? I'm assuming his presbiopia is rather significant, so I'd suggest making sure the monitor of that computer is set up for the visually impaired. Barring that, if you truly want to keep him happy, you're going to need to take him to places where he can interact with people on a regular basis.
While we're stodgy and insistant, what makes us happiest is knowing that our efforts to help others are appreciated and affective (not quite the same as e-ffective).
If he's an ENFJ, he'll need a lot of conversation with you two as well.
Also, judging from what he's been through, this may be the most important tip, you're going to have to keep your cool and love him through his grumpy demanding phases. Each time you do this, he will trust you a little more. Combine that with doing what he asks of you to be a better person, and you'll have him eating out of your hand in no time. I can assure you that there is no better type to have in such a position. Our loyalty is without question. Our devotion is endless. And our ability to make things better is unrivalled.
I hope that helps.
Yes, that's what I was talking about when I suggested taking initiative to improve your Fe.
This is a great distinction between Ni and Fe dominance. Ni will have you spending far too much time pondering what to do. Fe will have you doing what you ponder.
If you want to improve your Fe, be prepared to be in motion a lot more often.
As for ENFPs... they even outdo me for always being busy. Sometimes I wonder if they were born with jets in their butts. It's like they have constant thrust for whatever whim strikes their fancy at the moment. I can't keep up with them, and that's saying a lot.
I actually have something else I could use some advice on. As an INFJ I find ENFJs marvelous people. Like you said they see your potential and know how to help you get there. But in the same vein I'm so incredibly intimidated by a new ENFJ friend I made.
At the start I got a tremendous boost of feel good can-do energy from her, but then I felt like I had to start withdrawing. I don't feel like I fit in her world at all, and I can't keep up at all. When I needed to slow down I withdrew even further because it felt like disappointing her by not reaching my potential, or not doing it quickly enough.
Plus, she just knows too well what's going on. I don't like that, I'm used to being an enigma to people, which means I can put any spin on whatever I do and 99% of the time people will buy it. She doesn't, she notices what's going on and wordlessly reacts, and that bugs me.
I really don't know how to deal with her at all. Maybe despite how attractive I think ENFJs are I'm better off staying away?
At the start I got a tremendous boost of feel good can-do energy from her, but then I felt like I had to start withdrawing. I don't feel like I fit in her world at all, and I can't keep up at all. When I needed to slow down I withdrew even further because it felt like disappointing her by not reaching my potential, or not doing it quickly enough.
Plus, she just knows too well what's going on. I don't like that, I'm used to being an enigma to people, which means I can put any spin on whatever I do and 99% of the time people will buy it. She doesn't, she notices what's going on and wordlessly reacts, and that bugs me.
I really don't know how to deal with her at all. Maybe despite how attractive I think ENFJs are I'm better off staying away?
The Stereotypical ENFJ response: "Sure, you can wuss out and not live up to the incredible potential that is clearly within you."
Hehe, in all seriousness though, I think there is a very simple solution. ENFJs can be very... strike that... extremely demanding. But, as you've admitted, we're seldom wrong about what we're demanding. One area that we are often unable to measure is the capacity of our 'students' to keep up with the pace we press on them. We do this on purpose because we expect people to let us know when they've reached any of their limits. We can usually see it when we have, so they rarely need to tell us. But, every now and then we miss the signs because we measure limits by our own capacity, and we're very strong people. However, at some point, you'll let us know, and we understand that.
All you have to do is make clear to her that you appreciate what she does for you, admire her for it, and agree with it but you need her to understand that from time to time you need a pause from it, and that you're not designed to run at that pace. She might get a little miffed for a moment (this can sometimes look like 'furious' to most others, but trust me our actual 'furious' borders on psychotic, we're creatures of emotion) but she will see your honesty and sincerity, understand, and will rather quickly begin to work it into her approach. ENFJs push people as hard as they will let us. It's in our nature. But, and this is the most important part to understand, we do it because we care about you. If what we're doing is harmful to you, we will always adapt to accomodate.
Also, you have no idea how much respect and admiration we have for people who can do what we ask of them when we're helping them. It literally makes us love you because we so intensely admire people who better themselves.
Once you reach this compromise with her, I think you two can be amazing friends, and truly helpful to each other's development in ways that you never thought possible. You'll both be changed for the better - assuming your friend is an ENFJ and not a mistype.
Step up to this challenge, but let her know your limitations. She will respect you for it, and you will be grateful that you did.
Last edited:
One thing I noticed about ENFJs is that they tend to get down on themselves a lot...my best ENFJ friend is very self-conscious, sometimes to the point of being self-deprecating. He blames himself for a lot of stuff.
I'm usually pretty good with dealing with it, but I want to check to see if I'm going about it right. Like I said, we often seem to switch roles around each other -- I'm often the one pushing him to his potential because at most other times he's too busy concentrating on others that he forgets to do the same for himself. But he pushes me to become a better person without even actually doing anything; I want to be a better person so that I can support him.
But he blames himself all the time...what I usually do in response to that is go through the logical reasons why it's not his fault, but in a light, positive manner; I usually smile and let it drop. I don't make a big deal about it, and I always show him that it doesn't upset me because I know that's what bothers him the most. I do this because I hope if he doesn't brood on it and sees that it's not a big deal, he'll begin to understand the logical side a bit more or at least start giving himself a break.
But I'm not sure if I should address it directly more, or how I should go about doing that. I don't think I should with the small stuff, and I try to make sure he realizes that he's a good person otherwise, but....well, I want to make sure I'm not missing something
I'm usually pretty good with dealing with it, but I want to check to see if I'm going about it right. Like I said, we often seem to switch roles around each other -- I'm often the one pushing him to his potential because at most other times he's too busy concentrating on others that he forgets to do the same for himself. But he pushes me to become a better person without even actually doing anything; I want to be a better person so that I can support him.
But he blames himself all the time...what I usually do in response to that is go through the logical reasons why it's not his fault, but in a light, positive manner; I usually smile and let it drop. I don't make a big deal about it, and I always show him that it doesn't upset me because I know that's what bothers him the most. I do this because I hope if he doesn't brood on it and sees that it's not a big deal, he'll begin to understand the logical side a bit more or at least start giving himself a break.
But I'm not sure if I should address it directly more, or how I should go about doing that. I don't think I should with the small stuff, and I try to make sure he realizes that he's a good person otherwise, but....well, I want to make sure I'm not missing something
This helped tremendously. By the way, I made a typo with his age; he was 63 when he declared himself, 64 now. That aside, everything you said made perfect sense. I didn't even need a grain of salt. Even what you said about why he thinks this is the first time he's ever been in love fits and is reassuring. And yes, he's an extremely sarcastic, cynical, grmpy, unpleasant old codger, but he's the most loving man I've ever known beneath all that.
The last paragraph of your post was perhaps the most helpful. I think he began to trust me after one truly horrible weekend when he was at his worst (I had said something I thought reasonable but from which he inferred unfair criticism--and Katie bar the door!) He punished me and himself all weekend, but I stayed and kept my heart open to him through my own spiritual resources that I don't discuss with anyone except him. Anyway, I know there'll be other bouts of that sort of behavior from time to time and I feel prepared for them. As for conversation, he'll get plenty of that. He and my roomie were activists together in the disability-rights movement and she's still very active. He cares quite deeply for her and they can talk endlessly about politics and disability issues. My son adores him and is more open with the old man than he can be with his own father. I'm hoping he'll find other people in the neighborhood to help; there are plenty of them.
Last but not least, I don't want him eating out of my hand. I want him to be happy here and live out whatever years he healing from the trauma he's suffered. I've never loved-- or been loved by--anyone like this in my life and I'm willing to do whatever it takes to return his incredible devotion. I know that sounds soppy, but so be it.
It sounds like you're doing fine. I'm having trouble coming up with anything to add to that.
I've been in the same boat myself for a while now. I'm very hard on myself, as I'm finding all ENFJs are. My INTJ friend does pretty much the same thing for me as you're doing for your ENFJ. She just keeps telling me that I'm awesome. She tells me pretty much everyday, and when she does, she explains why, but also tells me the truth. I never get tired of hearing it, and it really does help.
She will say things like "No really, you're awesome. Here's why..." and then go on for as long as it takes to make her points. I've never once told her to stop, but I would have if it seemed insincere.
My self esteem has been rebuilt because of her constant and unyielding encouragement. I'm sure you can do the same for your ENFJ.
Thank you for this. You have no idea how much that meant to me and my current state, through association as an ENFJ.
No problem 
It's usually true of ENFJs -- I admire this type deeply when they are at their best. And I've known some truly remarkable ones.
So yeah Convince yourself of that, cuz it's usually true
It's usually true of ENFJs -- I admire this type deeply when they are at their best. And I've known some truly remarkable ones. So yeah
Convince yourself of that, cuz it's usually true
No problem
Heh, I've also been told that. When I'm at my best I'm amazing.
But, I've also been told that at my worst, I'm a real downer. I can be extremely demanding, and extremely fatalistic and self loathing. It seems that we ENFJs are quite polar creatures due to our dominant Fe. When we are living up to the standards that drive us, there is little we can't do because our intuition is backing us up. However, when we don't meet the standards that drive us, we give up on everything, and do it with the same intensity that we apply to our idealism.
We're highly emotional, and know exactly how things are supposed to be. When these two things refuse to align, we dig in our heels and bolster our efforts. It will yield. However, when it is ourselves that fail to align, our dominant function punishes us mercilessly.
There's quite a lot of stuff about ENFJs that I wanted to know about in your post - thanks Von Hase.
Just as a hypothetical, would would cause you, as an ENFJ, to completely shut off a person (i.e. ignore) for a long period of time (say, ~ half a year)?
Was just wondering as I had a fairly close friendship with a friend (who i believe to have ENFJ preferences) the other year, and out of the blue - after a holiday break - just started to ignore me.
Just as a hypothetical, would would cause you, as an ENFJ, to completely shut off a person (i.e. ignore) for a long period of time (say, ~ half a year)?
Was just wondering as I had a fairly close friendship with a friend (who i believe to have ENFJ preferences) the other year, and out of the blue - after a holiday break - just started to ignore me.
Two things would cause me to ignore a person.
1 - the less harsh of the two - I got busy with other people. This happens to me a lot. I'm an extrovert, so I have a lot of people that I care about and help. I only have so much time and attention to give, and I seem to manage it based on priority at the moment - and in a not so fair way - by whoever is the most recent. If someone isn't pressing me for attention, I can easily put them on the back burner until I get done with the current issue. I've heard this referred to as dealing with people by the rule "The first shall be last, and the last shall be first." It's not fair, but I do it. If that's the case, I am always glad to hear from those I've put on the back burner, and somehow just assume they're okay with it.
A good way to tell if you're on an ENFJ's back burner is to call them. If they sound genuinely happy to hear from you, even if they are very busy and have to get off the phone, you're on their back burner. Don't take offense. The easiest way to get off of our back burner is to come up with a new need for us to fill, and thus jump to the end of the line, which is who we take care of first.
2 - the not so good reason - you've offended our sense of how things should be, and you're on indefinite time out until you correct the issue. I would like to think that ENFJs are good at letting you know our expectations, so that when you fail to meet them, you know what you did. But, the simple fact of the matter is, we don't communicate this well at all. Most importantly, we rarely let anyone know they are on time out nor why. This is really unfair to the people we have put on time out, and very counter to the point. We want you to fix it, and this is our last resort. It is also important to note that we are consciously 'done with you' at this point, and are willing to keep things this way until something changes. However, we are excessively forgiving at heart, and it doesn't take much to earn your readmittance into our lives, because our hearts rule our minds. All you have to do is seem apologetic in most instances.
If you're on time out, we'll generally be short with you when you call, and rather quick to ask you about the things we wanted you to change. If you haven't, we'll get off the phone quickly, and the time out will continue indefinitely.
Note: Both of these circumstances involve not answering the phone when you call, or responding when you write. Don't take either of those as a sign that you're in either bracket.
I hope that helps.
Last edited:
ENFJs are very idealistic in relationships -- but do you think that, when they finally find that idealistic relationship they're looking for, they become afraid that it's too good to be true, and thus get scared and back out?
How exactly are you supposed to appease an ENFJ?
How exactly are you supposed to appease an ENFJ?