Downtalking "Western culture" | Page 2 | INFJ Forum

Downtalking "Western culture"

The other defence i would say in favour of people looking into eastern spiritualism is that western life has been getting increasingly hurried and stressful (this process has been occuring in the east as well with for example Chinas economy really taking off)

A lot of people are looking for some calm in all the madness and they haven't found what they are looking for in the church so they have been turning away from that. Also society has become more individualistic so the emphasis has shifted from fitting unquestioningly into society towards looking for what feels right for you

People have been turning to other approaches whether meditation or shamanism and finding whole new realms to explore as a result

I think that the corporations will always seek to jump on any bandwagon and try and commercialise things that are growing in popularity; this then cheapens and waters down things so that people are no longer engaging with the deeper meaning of somethin but rather following a fashion; this is because the corporations do not want people coming to their own truths

But ultimately i see the process of increasing awareness as a positive one (when it isn't hijacked by the corporate elites)

So one question that arises is why when we live in an age of machinery, computerisation, robots, labour saving devices, women working as well as men, do we see people still having to work so many hours and often under stressful conditions?

Perhaps this cultural shift is the beginning of a widespread rejection of the western capitalist system and all its injustices and inequalities
 
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Horatio said:
Right, but what are the differences? This article certainly helped clear a few things up for me: http://mountainrunner.us/2008/01/differences_between_eastern_an/#.UMSopY6wCXc
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Those might highlight differences in social attitudes (though idk how valid that article is)....

But I'm just talking about more obvious surface cultural influences like:

Asia: Confucius, Buddhism, Taoism, kung fu, Zen yin and yang concepts, rice, green tea, people in a certain type of colourful robes and funny hats

Europe: Empirical research, Western philosophies (Plato, Aristotle..), Christianity, fixation on dairy products, people in a different particular type of colourful robes and funny hats
 
niffer said:
I didn't have that in mind when writing it because I haven't experienced it all that much, but that does sound like one of the symptoms.
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I was under the impression that you were asking why Westerners show disregard for their own culture while holding others in higher regard, and also why other countries don't necessarily do the same for their own cultures (given you identified it as being a 'western' thing).

I'm really not sure that we need a thread on hipster affectation here, but I do think that for some people, the appeal of foreign culture worship mostly lies in the fact that if you're ignorant about something, you get to use your imagination and fill in the blanks-- so it can be anything you want it to. If enough people agree with you, then the reality of it doesn't matter… because you're just using it as a kind of social currency and you're bonding with people who share the same superficial understanding of it.

Fascination with Eastern mysticism/'counterculture' is a hand-me-down from the hippies/beats, so it was already there and it's relatively easy to latch onto. But it's cynical to say that these 'new age' people have no souls and are only interested in the superficial… I didn't know that I was interested in other cultures until I started traveling, and if you asked me this question 8 years ago I would have had a very different answer. All genuine connections begin at the superficial level… you can't reasonably expect people to just immediately possess a complete understanding of something, or write them off as phonies because they haven't nurtured a 'deeper' understanding of it by a certain date.
 
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niffer said:
I have noticed that there seems to exist in Western culture the interesting phenomenon in which people--especially the more new-agey types--really like to tout the superiority, openmindedness, and true-to-nature-ness or whatever it's supposed to symbolize, of seemingly anything that is related to Eastern (or just otherwise non-Western) culture, and present it in contrast to Western or European culture; whether it be with religion and spirituality, social attitudes, food and health, etiquette... the variety of opportunities that people take to engage in this type of exchange with others is seemingly endless.

This phenomenon in which people downplay the importance of their own culture and snootily advertise the benefits of supposed attitudes or whatever of other cultures is something that does not happen elsewhere. It is unique to North Americans. Talking about the wonderfulness of cultures other than our own can be overheard in casual exchanges as commonly as conversations about the weather.

I think people who engage in it do it to seem knowledgable and worldly, to open the minds of others, as if they are supposed to be wise, travelled shamans, who ventured back to North America or Europe so they could spread some sort of invaluable insight from the distant lands that they returned from.

Being someone whose family is primarily Buddhist and from "Eastern culture", it usually just sounds somewhere between mildly entertaining to breathtakingly retarded to me whenever I happen to witness this behaviour from Westernized people (I won't say white people outright, because it can come from whitewashed/Americanized people of any ethnicity).

Conversely, being patriotic to ones own country or culture seems to warrant the reaction in others that a person is low-brow or culturally insensitive. If you aren't a fanatic of yoga, Buddhism, or the health benefits of green or white tea, or if you don't know how to brew your own chai, well then you must be an uncool and uncultured redneck! Why is this mentally processed and grouped into polar extremes? Can people not take any interest in cultures or ideologies other than the "standard" that they are used to, stay in their own little cultural bubble, and not be considered rednecks? Why can't people be proud of what they are associated with? I think the philosophies and innovations of the Western world are great and there is a lot to be proud of there. You guys have Socrates, tasty food, democracy, and people with blue eyes. Can it get any more awesome than that? Y'know, this whole thing kind of reminds me of angry teenagers who hate their parents without realizing just how much their parents have done for them.

Discuss/explain yourselves!


(Yeah I know that presenting this topic is kind of ironic lol but it isn't really through-and-though irony if you think about it.)
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I'll take a drink of the Haterade now and again when our democratically elected government does something facepalm worthy, but for the most part I try to just enjoy the good aspects of where I live. Sometimes the grass seems pretty green in Canada though.

When I encounter some yahoo touting why X place is better than "this place", I sometimes respond with "Too bad they didn't like you, you could have stayed there". There are things that irritate me about my country and my state, but running about pissing and moaning about it doesn't fix anything. Individuals and general cultural viewpoints can and will change over time, not always in a positive direction, but change will eventually occur.

I tend to appreciate viewpoints from other cultures and sometimes wish we could utilize more positive influences from them. Cultural exchange is a big part of what makes America a great place.
 
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[MENTION=5559]Cornerstone[/MENTION] [MENTION=731]UBERROGO[/MENTION]

Lol maybe "fixation" is a strong word. I just meant that dairy is used a lot more in European countries than it is in most Asian countries. I'd say it's one of the more significant differences in diet.
 
niffer said:
Lol maybe "fixation" is a strong word. I just meant that dairy is used a lot more in European countries than it is in most Asian countries. I'd say it's one of the more significant differences in diet.
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Wasn't this because people of asian descent have a harder time breaking it down in their bodies, or some such thing? Not like lactose intolerant, but it acts sort of like alcohol? Something or such...?

Also I kinda get what you mean, like the more aesthetic qualities of Eastern culture, but through the narrow viewpoint of a Westerner?
 
Horatio said:
Wasn't this because people of asian descent have a harder time breaking it down in their bodies, or some such thing? Not like lactose intolerant, but it acts sort of like alcohol? Something or such...?

Also I kinda get what you mean, like the more aesthetic qualities of Eastern culture, but through the narrow viewpoint of a Westerner?
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If it acted like alcohol I think my uncle would have mentioned buying asian women lots of ice cream and milk.
 
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Wait, are you actually frustrated that people are praising another culture?

The ones you really need to watch for are the "Patriotic Westerners". They've brought us such things as Capitalism, Nazism, and Industrial-Military Complexism (my new "ism" to the mix). Nationalism is best in small degrees.

It's best to have people who are apologetic and appear to put their own culture down rather than try to usurp and take control of everyone else in the name of their culture.

As a song's lyrics say:

"Better the pride that reside in a citizen of the world
Than the pride that divides, when a colorful rag is unfurled"

Or if you like, live a few years in the southern end of the USA. Make friends with some "Tea-Baggers" and you'll see exactly why there are the "apologists"! Because we have people in public positions making statements and voicing opinions like these (see below), I'd say we need people in the group you pointed out to counter them:

(Gah! It pains me to even copy and paste this crap!)

Is the white race under threat in America?


[video=youtube_share;91Mttd6MP78]http://youtu.be/91Mttd6MP78[/video]
 
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Perhaps there is always a certain amount of romanticising what we don't know. Not sure if this is solely a Western thing, though. They are building plenty of mega-malls in Indonesia.
 
niffer said:
[MENTION=5559]Cornerstone[/MENTION] [MENTION=731]UBERROGO[/MENTION]

Lol maybe "fixation" is a strong word. I just meant that dairy is used a lot more in European countries than it is in most Asian countries. I'd say it's one of the more significant differences in diet.
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South Asians have as much of a fixation with dairy, if not more (check out kulfi ice cream, lassis, milky desserts, paneer cheese).

The variation in fixation on dairy is likely due to lactose intolerance being the norm in most of the world.. We re supposed to stop being able to break down milk after weaning. But in parts of the world where they've domesticated cows for milk traditionally, people who could enjoy milk presumably had a lot more children :)

http://milk.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=000661

I love milk.

Cool fact: About 44% of lactose intolerant women regain the ability to digest lactose during pregnancy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactose_intolerance
 
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LittleTalks said:
South Asians have as much of a fixation with dairy, if not more (check out kulfi ice cream, lassis, milky desserts, paneer cheese).

The variation in fixation on dairy is likely due to lactose intolerance being the norm in most of the world.. We re supposed to stop being able to break down milk after weaning. But in parts of the world where they've domesticated cows for milk traditionally, people who could enjoy milk presumably had a lot more children :)

http://milk.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=000661

I love milk.

Cool fact: About 44% of lactose intolerant women regain the ability to digest lactose during pregnancy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactose_intolerance
Click to expand...

A fixation on drinking baby food produced from another species for their offspring? Yum! Where do I sign up??! :crazy:

Cool fact: Humans are supposed to become lactose intolerant once they're old enough to digest solid food; the enzyme required for milk digestion is "lost" without the presence of milk.

Couldn't resist adding this :)

View attachment 16392
 
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Modern Western culture is self deflating, unpatriotic and malcontent. ie. to be Western in the current era is to perpetually hold the belief that the grass is greener on the other side of the fence.
 
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Envy and jealousy can be synonymous. I find it hilarious when it is used for something or someone to feel more superior.
 
From a Native persepctive:

Okay, I don't have any problem with someone being respectful of and even admire a culture not their own. I dislike the ever so vague underlying message of "oh because we (being non-Natives) just LOVE that whole Native thing you got going on, it must be good". Like having the non-Native external approval is what every Native was panting for...oh please...oh please....tell us that we are peachy keen just the way we are...that our beliefs mean something....

I do however shudder at the over-the-top Indian Lovers out there who delude themselves into thinking they ARE Native when they are not.
 
Flavus Aquila said:
Modern Western culture is self deflating, unpatriotic and malcontent. ie. to be Western in the current era is to perpetually hold the belief that the grass is greener on the other side of the fence.
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Interesting point

Why do you think that is?
 
muir said:
Interesting point

Why do you think that is?
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Their bullshit has more nitrogen content on the other side of the fence.
 
Skathac said:
Their bullshit has more nitrogen content on the other side of the fence.
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Lol

I would argue its because despite having many comforts many people in the west are not satisfied

I would also argue that a life where there are many comforts but no one has to think much for themselves about how things are run is a very unnatural state for human beings who have evolved over 200,000 years to be hunter gatherers having to think for themselves, exercise their own judgement, have direct involvement in their community and use a number of different skill sets in a number of different ways on a day to day basis

Give it another decade of consumerism and i think we are going to see some serious soul searching in the west
 
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