Downtalking "Western culture"

[#@&5&49]

All of these perspectives are fascinating. Being half Caucasian and half Asian, and growing up in a household where two completely different cultures were colliding left me kind of feeling like a tourist in my own home. Meaning, as a tourist you don't quite fit into the culture of the country you're visiting. Being literally raised with East meets West, isn't as great as some might think. Prejudice and misunderstandings can happen on a daily basis. You get to see the best of both and the worst of both. You become a sort of cultural nomad, not really having a culture of your own. Not completely White and not completely Asian.

As a result, I find myself more immersed in diverse subcultures then the average person. You have no choice but to develop a birds eye view because you cannot take one side, you have to take both sides. I've seen "Easterners" want to be "Westerners" and "Westerners want to be "Easterners". They each have there own flavor, pros and cons, headaches and heartaches. One religion, way of life, etc. isn't better or worse than another, just different. Because of my upbringing, I believe it is possible to take aspects of various cultures and integrate them into one way of life or belief system, but when you take the good, the bad comes too. It would be nice if we had the luxury of picking and choosing. Perhaps that's possible, but I haven't experienced it. Just my personal experience.

 

[barbad0s]

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@Seraphim Thank you very much. You've articulated very well a lot of what the message that I've been trying hard to deliver was, when I've been feeling like I've been failing to some extent to do it completely.

Although... I've personally never really seen people act this way to an extent where I would consider it to be offensive. It's more just stupid--people take it too far by thinking that things outside of their culture are the be all and end all of "enlightenment", as you said. "It's a way more holistic worldview! Eastern philosophy/culture had it right the first time with their history of thousands of years of sekrit wisdom!!1 Embrace it and u can solve all ur problemz!!!1" You can find that kind of stuff being touted even in a lot of recent professionally produced media that is meant to be informative and academic.

It seems like anyone from Western culture who considers themselves to be cultured is going to be waiting on their toes in conversation for when they can finally pounce and drop a foreign culture reference. It's done so excessively that it's become very, very obviously cliche and tiresome (to me, anyway). And yet it's as if nobody sees it or is aware that they are being incredibly retarded with the way that they unreasonably put foreign culture on a pedestal, or drop irrelevant pieces of information in order to look more knowledgable (just check out this fucking irrelevant and partially inaccurate post from earlier on in this thread: http://www.infjs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23791&p=663299&viewfull=1#post663299). It's like people who say that they are "colourblind", or who uncomfortably dance around the topic of race. "I see no phyisical differences whatsoever in the tones of skin between anyone! If someone was a black person it would never even register in my mind after knowing them for years!" As the saying goes, can people like this taste the bullshit as it spills out of their mouths?

Like @Sadie , for those who don't already know, I too am from a mixed Asian and European background/ethnicity. Although I suppose that she and I could never completely understand the perspective of people who are "fully" from one background or another--whether or not that's relevant--I agree that in having the background we have, we've been blessed (cursed?) with probably being able to clearly see the crap from all different sides of different cultures or perspectives perhaps a little better than many others, as a result of having been forced to step back and forever live from a "third party" or "bird's eye" POV of sorts.

 

[Rcs6r]

I would like to think part of the reason some westerners "hate" their culture is because our media bombards us with mostly negative news all the time. How often do you hear about the good that's come from western society?

 

[Paladin-X]

They/we do it to the Irish too. My great grandfather was from Ireland. I am Canadian though. Though other Canadians seem to think I'm a foreigner, because I'm from Quebec.

I like Avatar and that movie formula. Though I don't see it as white man vs indigenous tribe. I see it as good guy vs bad guy. Nowhere in my mind does "evil white man" or "evil westerner" enter my mind. I'm simple like that.

 

[the]

Sometimes I feel like whenever one of these kind of topics come up, inevitably the movie idiocracy is mentioned as if no one has ever seen or heard of it. Such a cliche reference.

 

[Rcs6r]

Sometimes I feel like whenever one of these kind of topics come up, inevitably the movie idiocracy is mentioned as if no one has ever seen or heard of it. Such a cliche reference.

But... It's got what plants crave! It's got electrolytes! D:

 

[Gktr]

It's not just something you see in North America, actually. In Northern Europe, people also seem to have a negative view of their own culture. Symbols and imagery play a very important role in religion and culture, and since the NSDAP glorified the pre-Christian Germanic culture and used a lot of ancient ancestral symbols in their propaganda and art, an outward display of such symbols is linked to neo-Nazism. I suppose the same could be said about the swastika, but it's easier to make the distinction between the use of the swastika in fascist symbolism and its use as a religious symbol in Asia, than to make the distinction between "appropriate" and "inappropriate" use of the valknut or odal rune. It's not just imagery that's the problem, though. In a more general sense, patriotic and nationalistic sentiments are viewed as negative, especially in Germany, and national culture and heritage are important aspects in both of these ideologies. In recent years, the right-wing populist parties in Europe have advocated the idea that European cultures are being threathened by mass immigration. The response from their political opponents has been to downplay the importance of the traditional culture of the country or, in some cases, paint it as inferior to other cultures. The Swedish Prime Minister, Fredrik Reinfeldt, even said at one point that the ancient Swedes were nothing but barbarians, and that all culture had come from the outside.

I've always been very interested in my own cultural background and the history of my country, which is why I ended up studying archaeology. Still, I have to admit I sometimes can't help but to feel guilt and shame because of some of the things my ancestors have done in the past, and I certainly don't like it when people use history and culture to further a political agenda I find disgusting. I can understand why some people here feel compelled to denounce their own culture, but I don't really know why they would then be drawn to Eastern culture instead. Perhaps they feel alienated in a society which is becoming more and more individualistic and seek out Eastern culture instead, which is often perceived as being more communal?

 

[Cornerstone]

Sometimes I feel like whenever one of these kind of topics come up, inevitably the movie idiocracy is mentioned as if no one has ever seen or heard of it. Such a cliche reference.

Did it happen already or did you just bring it up now?

 

[Cornerstone]

Oh yeah, I see it.

It's not a bad film though. I was really tired when I watched it and slighly delirious because of it so that may have influenced my judgement.

It was made by the same guy as King of the Hill though, no?

 

[muir]

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@Seraphim Thank you very much. You've articulated very well a lot of what the message that I've been trying hard to deliver was, when I've been feeling like I've been failing to some extent to do it completely.

Although... I've personally never really seen people act this way to an extent where I would consider it to be offensive. It's more just stupid--people take it too far by thinking that things outside of their culture are the be all and end all of "enlightenment", as you said. "It's a way more holistic worldview! Eastern philosophy/culture had it right the first time with their history of thousands of years of sekrit wisdom!!1 Embrace it and u can solve all ur problemz!!!1" You can find that kind of stuff being touted even in a lot of recent professionally produced media that is meant to be informative and academic.

There is a western esoteric tradition (based around qabalah) but this has been largely underground because of the persecution from the catholic church

The eastern tradition is of a different nature and is arguably suited to a less material life. It has been argued that 'westerners' are better suited to the western tradition but all the hype has generally been around the eastern methods; I think the western tradition has remained fairly well concealed from the masses not through fear of persecution anymore but because the elites want to hoard the knowledge and use it to increase their personal power

A number of writers published a lot of material about qabalah in the 1800's and 1900's and the internet has also helped it to reach a wider audience

Perhaps it is because qabalah has been so jelously guarded that eastern spirituality has become so popular in the west, but thats not to say that eastern methods haven't benefitted people here