Does Yahweh/Jesus live by the Golden Rule? | Page 8 | INFJ Forum

Does Yahweh/Jesus live by the Golden Rule?

Discussion in 'Philosophy and Religion' started by Gnostic Christian, Apr 19, 2020.

Share This Page

Watchers:
This thread is being watched by 20 users.
More threads by Gnostic Christian
  1. Ren

    Ren Pin's android / The Maker / ≅ INFP

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2017
    Threads:
    56
    Messages:
    12,060
    Featured Threads:
    30
    Likes Received:
    91,861
    Trophy Points:
    4,246
    Location:
    Dublin
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    Enneagram:
    4-5-8
    I agree.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
    TheFool likes this.
  2. hithere

    Banned

    Joined:
    May 28, 2020
    Threads:
    6
    Messages:
    351
    Featured Threads:
    5
    Likes Received:
    1,883
    Trophy Points:
    912
    Gender:
    Female
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    Enneagram:
    147
    I agree with some of what you are saying. But I have a problem with Jesus being one of the greatest men. I would think a true leader and ambassador of God would want to direct people towards God. It seems like Jesus diverted all the attention to himself.
    I think the fact that Christians center on him so much is because, c'mon it's so much easier to have a relationship with a human being who had similar experiences etc to you then to a trancendent God. INFJ's might find such a relationship easier, but the vast majority of human beings - why stretch to have a relationship with a God you can never understand if all you need to do is believe in Jesus and have a relationship with him. Yeah, it's probably a step forward from paganism, but that's it.
    Rant over :).
     
    Themis and Jonah Caan like this.
  3. acd

    acd Well-known member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2009
    Threads:
    143
    Messages:
    15,120
    Featured Threads:
    11
    Likes Received:
    33,376
    Trophy Points:
    1,377
    MBTI:
    infp
    Enneagram:
    9w8 sp/sx
    Christians believe Jesus was/is God, or that Jesus is God manifest in the flesh. In the Bible, he says, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

    Christians believe in the Trinity of God the father, son and holy spirit. All the same God, just different expressions of the divine in Christianity.
     
    #143 acd, May 28, 2020
    Last edited: May 28, 2020
    Rit4lin, Jonah Caan and Misty like this.
  4. hithere

    Banned

    Joined:
    May 28, 2020
    Threads:
    6
    Messages:
    351
    Featured Threads:
    5
    Likes Received:
    1,883
    Trophy Points:
    912
    Gender:
    Female
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    Enneagram:
    147
    Thanks for the response. Yes, I know that.
    The trinity makes no sense to me. It feels like apologetics for something that just can't be as one does not equal three. I respect all human beings and everyone has the right to their own beliefs even if I cannot comprehend them.
    Anyway, I think the trinity idea came later on after Jesus was was crucified. Is that right?
    When Christians focus on Jesus as the only way to God it doesn't feel like their focus is on God. It feels so narrow in a way. If God is one why do you need three?
    Don't bother answering me :). My questions are kind of rhetorical. I know some of the typical Christian responses already.
    Blessings to you and yours always!
     
  5. acd

    acd Well-known member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2009
    Threads:
    143
    Messages:
    15,120
    Featured Threads:
    11
    Likes Received:
    33,376
    Trophy Points:
    1,377
    MBTI:
    infp
    Enneagram:
    9w8 sp/sx
    Can't answer any of those questions anyway because I still have many of my own questions. :laughing:
    Just thought I'd chime in because I didn't see that side represented. It's just not how Christians view Jesus.
     
    Rit4lin, Jonah Caan, Misty and 2 others like this.
  6. Hostarius

    Hostarius Gimme that WOAD

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2018
    Threads:
    66
    Messages:
    15,308
    Featured Threads:
    22
    Likes Received:
    104,031
    Trophy Points:
    4,256
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Perfidious Albion
    MBTI:
    INTJ
    Enneagram:
    1w2
    Are you familiar with set theory?
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
    Rit4lin, Jonah Caan and Misty like this.
  7. hithere

    Banned

    Joined:
    May 28, 2020
    Threads:
    6
    Messages:
    351
    Featured Threads:
    5
    Likes Received:
    1,883
    Trophy Points:
    912
    Gender:
    Female
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    Enneagram:
    147
    No I'm not.
     
    Hostarius likes this.
  8. Hostarius

    Hostarius Gimme that WOAD

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2018
    Threads:
    66
    Messages:
    15,308
    Featured Threads:
    22
    Likes Received:
    104,031
    Trophy Points:
    4,256
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Perfidious Albion
    MBTI:
    INTJ
    Enneagram:
    1w2
    Well I'm not a Christian myself, though I see it as a valid spiritual system, but my understanding of the trinity is via the fundamental symbolism of number. Maybe it will interest you, maybe it won't, but you seem overly closed to whatever truths the trinity can reveal:

     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
    Rit4lin, Jonah Caan and Misty like this.
  9. hithere

    Banned

    Joined:
    May 28, 2020
    Threads:
    6
    Messages:
    351
    Featured Threads:
    5
    Likes Received:
    1,883
    Trophy Points:
    912
    Gender:
    Female
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    Enneagram:
    147
    Thanks for posting.
    It's a bit over my head, to be honest. I was never very good at math although I enjoyed learning if it can be explained really clearly. I do feel strongly about certain things but I'm pretty curious and love hearing others perspectives. I can get argumentative but I don't mean it personally.
     
    Rit4lin, Jonah Caan and Hostarius like this.
  10. Korg

    Korg ▄ ▄

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2009
    Threads:
    95
    Messages:
    3,258
    Featured Threads:
    5
    Likes Received:
    3,854
    Trophy Points:
    878
    MBTI:
    -
    Enneagram:
    -
    Pretty much this.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
    Misty and Hostarius like this.
  11. hithere

    Banned

    Joined:
    May 28, 2020
    Threads:
    6
    Messages:
    351
    Featured Threads:
    5
    Likes Received:
    1,883
    Trophy Points:
    912
    Gender:
    Female
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    Enneagram:
    147
    Ok, I checked out set theory online, and I get a bit what you were saying.
    However, it seems to me that the one thing we would not be able to apply set theory to would be the Divine source of everything.
     
    Jonah Caan likes this.
  12. Jonah Caan

    Jonah Caan Community Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2019
    Threads:
    3
    Messages:
    589
    Featured Threads:
    1
    Likes Received:
    2,856
    Trophy Points:
    1,112
    Gender:
    Male
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    YOOOOOOOO! Is my brother Hostarius back!?
     
    Rit4lin and Hostarius like this.
  13. Jonah Caan

    Jonah Caan Community Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2019
    Threads:
    3
    Messages:
    589
    Featured Threads:
    1
    Likes Received:
    2,856
    Trophy Points:
    1,112
    Gender:
    Male
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    I don't think that was a rant at all, I loved reading it; made me ponder.

    I'm trying to see how you think Jesus diverted all the attention to himself; is this something you've concluded from the Bible? I don't find the same to be true within The Quran which followed it:

    "They have certainly disbelieved who say, "God is the Messiah, the son of Mary" while the Messiah has said, "O Children of Israel, worship God, my Lord and your Lord." Indeed, he who associates others with God – God has forbidden him Paradise, and his refuge is the Fire. And there are not for the wrongdoers any helpers."

    (5:72)

    But I remember some verses from The Bible too (such as the one below) which also show that Jesus directed people towards God:

    "And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth."

    (Luke 11:2)

    Also you have to remember that Jesus only became a deity of sorts in Christianity over 300 years after his birth. I see the same pattern emerging with Muhammad (PBUH) in Islam. Nowadays a significant number of Muslims are beginning to believe he was made out of a special light and some pray to him. It's weird to me because that constitutes the most severe sin in the religion, polytheism:

    "O People of the Scripture, do not commit excess in your religion or say about God except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was but a messenger of God and His word which He directed to Mary and a soul [created at a command] from Him. So believe in God and His messengers. And do not say, "Three"; desist – it is better for you. Indeed, God is but one God. Exalted is He above having a son. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. And sufficient is God as Disposer of affairs."

    (4:171)

    I love your thinking in regards to it being so much easier to have a relationship with a human being who had similar experiences and so on. I've never thought about it like that and it rings true in my mind too:)

    But I guess therein is the test; that leap of faith.

    Thank you for your reply; I've enjoyed both reading and answering it immensely.
     
    Rit4lin, hithere and Hostarius like this.
  14. Hostarius

    Hostarius Gimme that WOAD

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2018
    Threads:
    66
    Messages:
    15,308
    Featured Threads:
    22
    Likes Received:
    104,031
    Trophy Points:
    4,256
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Perfidious Albion
    MBTI:
    INTJ
    Enneagram:
    1w2
    Hi, lol.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
    Rit4lin and Jonah Caan like this.
  15. Jonah Caan

    Jonah Caan Community Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2019
    Threads:
    3
    Messages:
    589
    Featured Threads:
    1
    Likes Received:
    2,856
    Trophy Points:
    1,112
    Gender:
    Male
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    Stand by Me (1986).mp4_snapshot_00.09.54.596.jpg
     
    Rit4lin and Hostarius like this.
  16. hithere

    Banned

    Joined:
    May 28, 2020
    Threads:
    6
    Messages:
    351
    Featured Threads:
    5
    Likes Received:
    1,883
    Trophy Points:
    912
    Gender:
    Female
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    Enneagram:
    147

    Thanks for that detailed reply.
    I'm totally with you on the absolute oneness of G-d. However, regarding Jesus, I am coming from a Jewish background, so my perspective is probably different than yours. The hallmark of a true Jewish leader was always humility, and yes I know Christians etc apply humility to Jesus. However, for Jews the litmus test for humility would be to annul yourself before G-d's will. Jesus however changed the word of G-d to the extent that he professed to be the ultimate authority in what he still deemed to be Jewish law. To me, that is diverting attention from G-d's word and will and placing yourself as the "savior" of the people. So, yes, that "saviorship" grew out of control with people later ascribing divinity to him. But it had to start somewhere.

    That's my understanding as of now.
     
    Jonah Caan and Rit4lin like this.
  17. Jonah Caan

    Jonah Caan Community Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2019
    Threads:
    3
    Messages:
    589
    Featured Threads:
    1
    Likes Received:
    2,856
    Trophy Points:
    1,112
    Gender:
    Male
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    Cool:)

    Which source(s) are you getting this from?
     
    hithere likes this.
  18. Themis

    Themis Community Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2020
    Threads:
    4
    Messages:
    240
    Likes Received:
    735
    Trophy Points:
    862
    Gender:
    Male
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    God spoke: “Let us make human beings in our image, make them
    reflecting our nature
    So they can be responsible for the fish in the sea,
    the birds in the air, the cattle,
    And, yes, Earth itself,
    and every animal that moves on the face of Earth.”
    God created human beings;
    he created them godlike,
    Reflecting God’s nature.
    He created them male and female.
    Genesis 1,26

    Why we are bad if God is good?
    I was always wondering that
     
    hithere likes this.
  19. hithere

    Banned

    Joined:
    May 28, 2020
    Threads:
    6
    Messages:
    351
    Featured Threads:
    5
    Likes Received:
    1,883
    Trophy Points:
    912
    Gender:
    Female
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    Enneagram:
    147
    Wasn't he critical of all the Rabbis at the time, encouraging people to disregard what they were saying in favor of his new version of things?
     
    Jonah Caan likes this.
  20. hithere

    Banned

    Joined:
    May 28, 2020
    Threads:
    6
    Messages:
    351
    Featured Threads:
    5
    Likes Received:
    1,883
    Trophy Points:
    912
    Gender:
    Female
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    Enneagram:
    147
    h
    I think we ARE essentially good because like you said we are created in God's image. However we have the ability to make choices and we sometimes get stuck between good and bad, function and dysfunction. In Judaism there is this concept of a " yetzer hara" which means the dysfunctional advisor or is often translated as the evil inclination. I see it as the ego.
    We need to quiet the ego/ the evil inclination and tune into who we REALLY are and recognize our true infinite value that we have by virtue of simply existing.
    The point of our journey here is that constant struggle between good and bad, to cut through the layers and get in touch with our true Godly self.
    It says " Sheva yipol tzadik vkam" a righteous person falls (even) seven times and gets up. Good doesn't mean perfect. Even righteous people fail. But part of what makes them righteous is their ability to pick themselves up after they stumble and continue on.

    As humans the beauty is in the struggle.


    Here is a link to one of my favorite songs that alludes to this idea. It's in Hebrew but there should be a translation in the comments.

     
    Themis likes this.
Loading...

Share This Page