Does changing to fit society means compromising who you are?

lol, i never really know where i'm going with threads either, you're not alone

i'll try to answer what i think you mean though. there probably isn't a true self. we're reflections and reflect the environment around us. and changing is less a necessity than an inevitability... it will happen whether or not we strive for it. but striving for it is probably a good idea since it'll happen that much faster, and being mature makes life easier (in my opinion anyway). you'd be less bothered by everyday stresses and will be more capable of making sound decisions, especially for the long term.

 

I would say it depends solely on how much of what constitutes their "self" to be externalized in that the outer world impacts it. The malleability of that is more pronounced and prone to change than values, traits, etc. that come from internalized sources which tends to be more resolute. That isn't to say those internalized systems can not be changed... It just generally takes a great deal more effort, good, bad, otherwise to make the change.

 

I realize I went on a muddled tangent so to sum it up:
One's self is as transient or resolute as one wishes for it to be based on the bits I said above and to a degree most people are in between complete malleability and total resolution. Whether where they fall on that spectrum is good or bad is also determined by themselves as well.

 

When I needed society more, I tended to cater to some of its odd expectations. Now as I get older?

I expect that people either accept me as I am or not bother me with alot of expectations.

I am no longer willing to be someone I am not to make others more comfortable. While I go to great lengths to make sure that I am not inconsiderate, I also include my needs as equally valuable as the needs of the many.

I AM, in fact, a member of the crowd as well.

THere are levels of intimacy that require certain honesties. If I am not at a level of intimacy with an individual, I don't have any expectations of them and I exist as I feel I need to be, to achieve peace of mind.

 

Well, you pretty much have to anyway, so why worry about it?

 

everything is a choice

especially the things that you think are not

 

yeah i agree with this, with that said im going to explain why malleability is my preferred method, this is also known as true self in enneagram though i do want to reiterate one is not better or worse than another as these are subjective concepts, its all about what you want for yourself.

upholding a self image or personality (or the more rigid end of kavalans spectrum) can give us a sense of who we are by condoning or applauding certain events, people, wtv, which can be beneficial in some aspects. the problem is that the further entrenched we become in this ideal self, the harder it is to adapt to what a situation calls for. if we think of ourselves as quiet and reserved it is harder to be social even if a situation requires it bc these skills are underdeveloped, thus we seek to avoid these situations and become worse and further entrenched, though this is often justified by saying "thats just who i am" (you could replace quiet and social with just about any characteristics that are antonyms).

when one becomes more fluid in their approach to any given environment, they can adequately assess and then interact with whichever of their skills it requires (some enneagram theories believe we harbor the ability to be all 9 points). this also releases the inner tension many feel in trying to live up to or maintain a self image of themselves bc upholding only certain characteristics of yourself while repressing others requires constant work, energy, and actually can lead to more subjective views of reality because we don't want to see the parts of ourselves we can't acknowledge while attempting to justify the parts we applaud. the hard part is allowing these aspects of ourselves that we have suppressed for so long to come into acknowledgement, and inevitably integration, though im living proof its possible it doesn't happen overnight and can get quite personal. there's alot more to it than that but anyone interested in learning more about this dont be afraid to pm me, i'm not an expert but i have a reference book that can be helpful if you're interested in taking enneagram beyond typology.

with that said these are just a few of the benefits i've seen since i've adopted a more fluid approach to life, but one isn't better or worse than another, just easier.

 

If you are by nature adaptable to different situations (including your own developement) - then changing as you grow is true to self.

If, however, you are not very adaptable to different situations - then remaining unchanged seems more authentic.

 

Yes, but every choice has a consequence, and we make the choices we have made because we have weighed the consequences to some extent and decided for and against things. Telling me I have free will does little to liberate me.

Not really. A change in immaterial culture (norms, customs) follows a change in material culture, and change in material culture is dependent primarily upon the advancement of technology, which really can't be stopped at this point.

Small changes can be made, but for the most part your life and who you are is predetermined. At least, in most of the important aspects, your life course was determined before you were born.

We even almost all accept very similar or the same sets of values given the kinds of societies we live in.

Plus, it is almost impossible to be an individualist without conforming to something else, unless you want to be a total freak and look stupid, in which case nobody will associate with you (and very few people want to experience such social rejection).

 

This also presupposes the existence of a true or authentic self.

 

Given that you are You, no matter what you do, you are always your authentic Self, regardless of thought, choice, or action.

Those things might not match your idea of your self, but that idea is an abstraction - it's not You.

You can compromise as it regards, say, your values, but your Self? That's ever-present, and manifests moment-to-moment. The Self may play hide-and-go-seek in the material world, but it isn't born or sourced of it, at least as I understand my own experience, and my sense of the spectrum of human consciousness, and the awareness that arises from it.


cheers,
Ian

 

In my teens and 20's, I tried desperately to change my personality to fit in better with the majority types. Most noteably to be more extraverted and organized. I was not familiar with MBTI at the time, but in retrospect, I was trying to become an ESTJ, or sometimes an ESTP. It was doable for a while ... actually over a decade ... but it really tore me up inside. I was quite miserable and acted out a lot ... drinking, womanizing, disregarding military regulations, etc. It was as though I had sold my soul to the devil. When I left that world at age 29, I reverted back to my "normal" self and became the introverted thinker I had been in younger years. When I learned of MBTI several years later, it gave me the freedom to be who I am without trying to cast myself into a different, unsuitable mold. I had actually moved back towards my true self without knowledge of MBTI. Make no mistake, I did learn a lot of helpful things in trying to cultivate my E, J and S. Those tools still come in very handy from time to time. Moving out of my comfort zone helped me develop them. In the final analysis though, I am an INTP at heart and I tend to revert back to that type whenever possible.

I do believe however that different functions we have mature as we grow older. I know that I'm working a lot on my Fe lately and finding great enjoyment doing so.

 

I know that I'm a better person if I don't compromise. It may seem like a contradiction but when I keep true to my core and treasure it like a strong corner stone, I am more capable of let say being fluent amongst others, adjust when it is needed, and support when it is required. I can not be supportive when my major concern is to be complained to others. It is hard to explain what I actually mean. It is like when you are a mountain on the inside you can be water on the outside.

well this is how it is for me. I have tried so many times to compromize because I always was scared that my own truth could be wrong and others maybe know better. But now I learned that I'm the only one who has the answers for me. And as long as I listen to myself, I will be fine

 

As a young child I was extremely quiet and reserved.

As I got older I became much more aggressive, more frustrated.

However in the past few years I've kind of reverted back to the way I was a child but with recent changes I've become more aggressive. With fear of repurcussions I'm looking into changing my living situation.

People around me leave me frustrated, I don't understand why people are so critical of everybody around them. I have never been a critical person and have never really tried to tell people how they should be living their lives but it seems a lot of people around me are nit picking at everything/body around them. This leaves me quite frustrated, more so lately.

 

ah this is well said and is the point i was going for. accepting everything about ourselves allows us to approach situations with less stress bc we have more tools at our disposal and the inner comfort of knowing we can do nothing that falls outside of our idealized image. problem is this is different for everyone, depending on not only your enneagram type, but your subtype, so everyone faces different challenges and potential realizations about not only reality, but themselves.

yep couldn't agree more, actually what i called true self in the above post was actually supposed to be "True Nature." diamond approach emphasizes that the personality is natural and imperative for our development as humans, just not the last step for those who aren't satisfied with it.

in this sense i'd say you're right flavus, i'd agree some people are inclined to search for something more than others depending on how happy they are with not only where they are but how their personality allows them to approach life. if you're getting what you want why change? i wasn't so i did.

 

When I was a teenager and in my early 20s, I agonized over how I was ever going to make it in this 'corrupt and unfair' world... I was always depressing myself with reasons why I was a hypocrite for 'conforming'. Now I'm a little older and I really don't care very much. Having to make a living and support myself has broken me of that mindset.. I work. I pay bills. I consume. I take care of me first. ::Shrug::

I'm resigned to it, comfortably. If that's appalling, I'm resigned to that too. I stopped obsessing over my idealized utopia once I accepted I was powerless to change anything.. that and the fact that with any swift social revolution comes conflict.. and I'd much rather avoid conflict, even for the sake of my ideals. I suppose you could say I stopped expecting the world to change to fit my ideals, and started thinking about how I could change to make my living here; fit into it in a way that lined up with my principals.

Is that maturity or growth or adaptation or compromising who I am? I'm not sure. I'm content.

 

yep yep !