Do you find most people to be emotionally superficial?

[5ufvdee369jcdd]

“The introverted intuitive’s chief repression falls upon the sensation of the object. His unconscious is characterized by this fact. For we find in his unconscious a compensatory extraverted sensation function of an archaic character. The unconscious personality may, therefore, best be described as an extraverted sensation-type of a rather low and primitive order. Impulsiveness and unrestraint are the characters of this sensation, combined with an extraordinary dependence upon the sense impression. This latter quality is a compensation to the thin upper air of the conscious attitude, giving it a certain weight, so that complete ‘sublimation’ is prevented. But if, through a forced exaggeration of the conscious attitude, a complete subordination to the inner perception should develop, the unconscious becomes an opposition, giving rise to compulsive sensations whose excessive dependence upon the object is in frank conflict with the conscious attitude. The form of neurosis is a compulsion-neurosis, exhibiting symptoms that are partly hypochondriacal manifestations, partly hypersensibility of the sense organs and partly compulsive ties to definite persons or other objects.”

https://www.idrlabs.com/articles/2010/12/jungs-portrait-of-the-infj-intj-types/

And as for Dosto, his works seem more universalist humanistic to me, and “absurd” in terms of his stories’ concepts. Of course that’s also “deep”, but in an Fi Ne way, IMO.

Ya, we pretty Se-tarted. Still don't agree with Dostoevsky being INFP, but whatever the hell it's an MBTI opinion!

And I think it's cute how you really want INFJs to be everyday folk with a shitty attitude (p or even worse: dumb and pretentious). That's cute and funny. I see that a lot from people who don't understand INFJs or don't like them. It's an interesting perspective. Thanks.

 

[barbad0s]

And if you need any examples, just look at Jung himself, often typed as INFJ, who took advantage of his clients sometimes. Ghandi who slept with young girls using his clout. Mother Teresa (although she is likely ISFJ or INFP IMO) and scandalous things about the way she ran things. Oops almost forgot about Hitler, though I know lots type him ENFJ too. @Maikl Jexocuha

 

[barbad0s]

Ya, we pretty Se-tarted. Still don't agree with Dostoevsky being INFP, but whatever the hell it's an MBTI opinion!

And I think it's cute how you really want INFJs to be everyday folk with a shitty attitude (p or even worse: dumb and pretentious). That's cute and funny. I see that a lot from people who don't understand INFJs or don't like them. It's an interesting perspective. Thanks.

I think it’s cute and funny how you assume I don’t like them.... or think there’s anything bad about being everyday folk... which ironically makes you look potentially dumb and pretentious LOL.

I like INFJs, I just don’t have an elevated pedestal image of them. I think the snowflake thing is overexaggerated and it should definitely be more balanced in general.

 

[barbad0s]

I agree that from an MBTI test perspective, Dosto would probably score “INFJ” or something like that over other things. @Maikl Jexocuha

I’m a subscriber to socionics, which considers Fi Ne to be a “J type” or “rational type”, as their dominant function is a judging one. In socionics, Dosto is typed as INFj, which corresponds to Fi Ne.

 

[5ufvdee369jcdd]

I think it’s cute and funny how you assume I don’t like them.... or think there’s anything bad about being everyday folk... which ironically makes you look potentially dumb and pretentious LOL.

I like INFJs, I just don’t have an elevated pedestal image of them. I think the snowflake thing is overexaggerated and it should definitely be more balanced in general.

Lol

 

[acd]

Oh...INFJs(real ones) are pretty deep. (Just read some of the shit by Dostoevsky to get an idea - or read stuff posted here by @John K ) but they're actually not the ones to go to for emotional "feely-wheely" stuff. Naw, that's the INFPs(think lovely dreamy stuff) and ENFJs(think bravado, soap opera, or just opera) territory. INFJs (along with ENFPs) got some wacky shape-shifting blow-the-lid-off your head kind of insight and ideas about things that will shake your belief and your mind and rattle your brain. And they can do it in a "cool" way, or you'll just get all offended and turn away like most sheepish people.

I've been here over 10 years and never has any INFJ posted any kind of insight or idea that has shaken my beliefs or mind lmao.
This is the reason why @barbad0s poked fun at the INFJ type. INFJs don't have the monopoly on world shattering depth and I actually think it's really superficial to assume the capacity others have for depth. But that is a trend that I have seen here over the years.
Be offended by that or not. I'm not so feely and dreamy these days.

 

[Asa]

I'm not going to get into the current tangle here. I just wanted to say that society, particularly polite society and what is left of it, is superficial by default. It is purposely kept this way to help society run like a machine because as soon as you add depth the gears stop interlocking, some go this way, others go that way, and the entire thing stops working as designed. Relationships fall into this machine, too, particularly male-male relationships because stereotypes about men exclude being open about feelings.
Are we changing as a society? Yes. Does this still exist, though? Yes.
Are individuals emotionally superficial if you can separate them from society and its expectations? Maybe, maybe not. It depends on the person. Individual people can be deeper than many give them credit for. Some really are not deep, ever, but many... many are.

 

[acd]

And @ReasonEnduring imagine being a disenfranchised person. Or someone struggling and learning that someone wants to help you, but only because you're stupid and screwing up the planet. Nobody wants to be anyone's project. I think your ambition to make the world a better place is noble, but it matters how you view and relate to those you serve.

 

[John K]

I've been here over 10 years and never has any INFJ posted any kind of insight or idea that has shaken my beliefs or mind lmao.
This is the reason why @barbad0s poked fun at the INFJ type. INFJs don't have the monopoly on world shattering depth and I actually think it's really superficial to assume the capacity others have for depth. But that is a trend that I have seen here over the years.
Be offended by that or not. I'm not so feely and lovely and dreamy these days.

I think the point you are making is valid acd, though I didn't see anything in this thread making out INFJ to be at the pinnacle of world insight, and it doesn't seem to be a prevailing idea elsewhere in the forum - on the contrary, most of the egotism here seems to come from other types. Many INFJs here are shy, and struggling with boundary problems. The issue is not this, which is a great topic for proper discussion - it's that that the way @barbad0s is approaching it is not just by poking fun, which is quite legitimate, but by being personal - she seems to be picking fights by goading people. That doesn't detract from the fact that she has some very good points, but she seems to pursue her arguments by attacking the person rather than the content. That blocks my appreciation of what she is saying, which is sad.

 

[acd]

I think the point you are making is valid acd, though I didn't see anything in this thread making out INFJ to be at the pinnacle of world insight, and it doesn't seem to be a prevailing idea elsewhere in the forum - on the contrary, most of the egotism here seems to come from other types. Many INFJs here are shy, and struggling with boundary problems. The issue is not this, which is a great topic for proper discussion - it's that that the way @barbad0s is approaching it is not just by poking fun, which is quite legitimate, but by being personal - she seems to be picking fights by goading people. That doesn't detract from the fact that she has some very good points, but she seems to pursue her arguments by attacking the person rather than the content. That blocks my appreciation of what she is saying, which is sad.

That was my take on @Maikl Jexocuha's post. Which seemed to compare the capacity of depth of different types against the real INFJs (he lumped ENFPs in with INFJs though). @ReasonEnduring seemed to suggest similar. And I'm also thinking of just threads here throughout my time alluding to it. But it was Maikl's post that moved me to comment more in this thread.

I agree I don't think @barbad0s surliness helps her point but I think it's still a good one.

 

[barbad0s]

I think the point you are making is valid acd, though I didn't see anything in this thread making out INFJ to be at the pinnacle of world insight, and it doesn't seem to be a prevailing idea elsewhere in the forum - on the contrary, most of the egotism here seems to come from other types. Many INFJs here are shy, and struggling with boundary problems. The issue is not this, which is a great topic for proper discussion - it's that that the way @barbad0s is approaching it is not just by poking fun, which is quite legitimate, but by being personal - she seems to be picking fights by goading people. That doesn't detract from the fact that she has some very good points, but she seems to pursue her arguments by attacking the person rather than the content. That blocks my appreciation of what she is saying, which is sad.

Again, I only eventually said they were a NEET, and it seemed to me like they were mooching off their SO (from a superficial perspective) after they quoted me and goaded me with the ridiculous idea that other people (which would include me, and you, and most others on here actually) essentially sucked ass in general in their opinion. But I am going to stop repeating myself as I’m beginning to realize I don’t give a shit and you clearly don’t give a shit about me anyway either.

PS Also, I don’t even think Reason Enduring is an INFJ. And I don’t have a problem with INFJs, just the stereotype of INFJ, which I don’t think is healthy for anybody to engage in.

 

[5ufvdee369jcdd]

"That was my take on @Maikl Jexocuha's post. Which seemed to compare the capacity of depth of different types against the real INFJs (he lumped ENFPs in with INFJs though)."

I mentioned ENFPs in my animated description because they are dominant intuitive feelers(like INFJs). There is a similarity in that they are not dominant feelers and thus do not find "depth of feeling" as important as "depth or breadth of insight"

 

[dragulagu]

I see what you’re saying there, for INFJs this feeling seems almost like an instinct, holding emotions back first. Despite the backgrounds and contexts, it’s always hard to make one understand your own emotions when you’re not quite able to do that yourself first. And I’d say that’s a repetitive scenario (mainly for INFJs), people looking for themselves in others... that’s just bound to be turbulent, in my opinion.
After all, yeah, the misunderstanding complex is indeed a barrier.

I'm not going to get into the current tangle here. I just wanted to say that society, particularly polite society and what is left of it, is superficial by default. It is purposely kept this way to help society run like a machine because as soon as you add depth the gears stop interlocking, some go this way, others go that way, and the entire thing stops working as designed. Relationships fall into this machine, too, particularly male-male relationships because stereotypes about men exclude being open about feelings.
Are we changing as a society? Yes. Does this still exist, though? Yes.
Are individuals emotionally superficial if you can separate them from society and its expectations? Maybe, maybe not. It depends on the person. Individual people can be deeper than many give them credit for. Some really are not deep, ever, but many... many are.

Yep and yep, finding / making emotional connection takes time and in today's society it's even more difficult to do so.

I have a degree in AI and Cybernetics

Actually very goddamn jealous, nice dude!

 

[John K]

Again, I only eventually said they were a NEET, and it seemed to me like they were mooching off their SO (from a superficial perspective) after they quoted me and goaded me with the ridiculous idea that other people (which would include me) essentially sucked ass in general in their opinion.

No, no, no!! - you have some good points. It's they way you provoke fights that I find difficult, and stops me from hearing you clearly.

But I am going to stop repeating myself as I’m beginning to realize I don’t give a shit and you clearly don’t give a shit about me anyway either.

I do give a shit - or I would have avoided posting here. I'm very conflict averse so I normally keep well away from threads that spin away.

PS Also, I don’t even think Reason Enduring is an INFJ. And I don’t have a problem with INFJs, just the stereotype of INFJ, which I don’t think is healthy for anybody to engage in.

I think that you have an important point here - I have a visceral dislike of stereotypes, though strangely I find that few of the people here try to fit the INFJ stereotype. But I think there is a big risk that people try and live to their type and this is a hazardous thing, particularly when we are young. I'm glad I didn't know my type in my teens and twenties, because it may have affected my life choices, and I don't regret the ones I made one jot - though they were not what might be thought a good fit for my type.

 

[barbad0s]

No, no, no!! - you have some good points. It's they way you provoke fights that I find difficult, and stops me from hearing you clearly.


I do give a shit - or I would have avoided posting here. I'm very conflict averse so I normally keep well away from threads that spin away.


I think that you have an important point here - I have a visceral dislike of stereotypes, though strangely I find that few of the people here try to fit the INFJ stereotype. But I think there is a big risk that people try and live to their type and this is a hazardous thing, particularly when we are young. I'm glad I didn't know my type in my teens and twenties, because it may have affected my life choices, and I don't regret the ones I made one jot - though they were not what might be thought a good fit for my type.

I feel like you heard me clearly then and you’re only saying you didn’t because you feel obliged to in order to not promote conflict.

I like conflict to an extent as I think it can reveal things quickly and efficiently. I’m not here to be appreciated either, actually. So, you’re welcome to take your shit back if you want.

 

[David54]

time to consult the INFJ sacred scrolls. . no, we dont have all the world's insight and understanding, compassion and reason, while the rest of mankind is inherently full of shit. I do think that depth is found in personal relationships regardless of MBTI, not in the population in general, it would be exhausting to have a deep connection with everyone I know. .there is a lot of bating that goes on at times here. . particularly when the person falls into that INFJ's are dark and mysterious, deep and heirs of mystics mentality. . been here awhile also

I've been here over 10 years and never has any INFJ posted any kind of insight or idea that has shaken my beliefs or mind lmao.

agree completely

 

[dragulagu]

I feel like you heard me clearly then and you’re only saying you didn’t because you feel obliged to in order to not promote conflict.

I like conflict to an extent as I think it can reveal things quickly and efficiently. I’m not here to be appreciated either, actually. So, you’re welcome to take your shit back if you want.

Fine, let's go in conflict then: You are trash-talking like a teenager while acting like an adult. Let me get myself a lobotomy and cry in a jar for you @barbad0s.

 

[Mar]

I struggle a lot when it comes to dealing with certain aspects in others. I seek emotional and intellectual depth and it seems that most people only want to look at human nature and the world in a superficial way. For example, my INTP boyfriend doesn't like talking with his dad even though the latter calls him about once every ten days or so. I asked him why he does this and he prefers to sweep things under the rug. I noticed he does this when family members are ill too. He just prefers not to deal with emotions and has a superficial understanding of the emotions of others in general.

I have noticed this in the majority of people really. It also makes me wonder whether many of these people have the depth (emotional and intellectual) to understand the world in general. I can't tell you how many superficial academic papers I have read recently.

Sorry for the rant. I was wondering if other INFJs struggle with finding people who share their emotional and intellectual depth.

I read through this thread earlier. I wanted to reply, but thought I’d wait a while...

The OP didn’t trigger any emotional response within me so I feel like I can offer objective insight into an INTP, seeing as I work with so many of them. So, I will answer with said INTP’s in mind.

They quickly categorize how important you are to them, based on how relatable you are. They’re often indifferent, as this neutrality is most comfortable. I have observed them most content in their own heads, quietly doing their work. They don’t seem to show frustration with technical/equipment breakdown, and seem to shine with problem solving and they blow my mind with their intelligence. They’re the least arrogant and competitive, instead preferring not to be bothered with futile attempts to be brought out of their shells...

The people in their lives of whom they’re close with, got there because they won these INTP’s respect. It’s really that simple. There’s nothing personal about their impersonal approach to people in their lives who hold close bonds only by title, of who simply haven’t formed enough relatability. I’ve noticed they show emotions. Generally sarcasm, humour and a tenancy to be avoidant. They DO care, but it’s selective, and they see no reason to do otherwise because it just wouldn’t be authentic.

Try reading between the lines. You can’t expect your INTP boyfriend to use Fe. However, sharing intellectually and emotionally intelligent bonding Can be achieved with most people, if you can speak their language. Try asking him questions. Try accepting his emotional distancing with those people of whom You’ve determined he should be closer with.

 

[Reason]

I didn't really enjoy talking with my dad when I saw him almost every day. Then I moved and now I'll talk to him once every month or two and the conversations are a blast!

You gotta give people time to live thier lives and have things happen to them more conversation does not necessarily equate to more connection.

 

[Mar]

But seriously.

How would you define it?

Perhaps by whatever raises the hairs on your arms and gives you goosebumps?

Something that leaves you pondering long after the fact?

Moments of profound understanding at last?

I'd say it's subjective.