Disaffected Youth | INFJ Forum

Disaffected Youth

Discussion in 'Psychology and MBTI' started by dneecey, Aug 10, 2010.

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  1. dneecey

    dneecey I am who I am.

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    Lately one of the things I have noticed is how angry a lot of young people are. I don't know if its everywhere, or just in my life in general, but it seems to be everywhere. Especially in the young guys that I know. Mostly from ages 17 to around 30ish.

    I'll take my brother for example. He is 22, and super angry. He feels like life has handed him the short end of the stick and is very jaded about everything, most of all love. He wants love, wants to not be lonely anymore, but doesn't believe in the possibility of it, so instead he shoots the idea down. He doesn't open up, doesn't trust, and when he gets treated like he's treating others (badly) he chalks it up to the "I knew it" board, and then there is another bitter layer on his heavy soul.

    It's not just love but everything really. Everyone is out to get him and there is no way possible that anyone understands him. His family is just trying to make him into something he's not. His job/manager is a tool and doesn't see his potential. His girlfriend is an unfaithful "expletive deletive" (mirroring his own actions might I add) and not worth his time, except, oh yeah he got her pregnant and now they have a baby girl.



    I suppose what has me worried most is that he and the others that I know that are like him are not ever going to snap out of it. :( The players change but the emotions all seem to stay the same, despite how they are portrayed. Some are angry and frustrated, leading to outbursts and serious violence. Some are angry and frustrated, leading to sadness and depression. But I am trying to figure out where it all stems from and how to be helpful with people who don't believe in anything, much less want help.

    Another thing is that these guys and some gals, have so much potential. If only they could get past the past, or the feeling that they are completely misunderstood, and going to be taken advantage of.

    Has anyone else noticed this rising trend, or is it really just something that has been going on for forever and it is only becoming more apparent to me because my peers are at the age/stage where they are dealing with this particular stage in their life?

    Is it all just part of the stages in life? The angry young? Is life really just mapped out in the seven stages of dealing with death? Stability, Immobolisation, Denial, Anger, Bargaining. Depression, Testing, and Acceptance? And are these people just in the angry stage? Or am I reading wayyyyy tooo much into all of this as always?
     
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  2. Billy

    Billy Contents Under Pressure
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    I think most young males are angry to a point, its just how we are. Did you ever read A Clockwork Orange love? It talks about this exact theme youthful energy = violence and anger, mature energy = creation and harmony.
     
  3. OP
    dneecey

    dneecey I am who I am.

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    No, I actually haven't read it although I did write a book report on it for my ex when he was in college. =X I got an A. (i know, i know, it was a bad thing to do) I've seen the movie and get that from it. I suppose I'm wondering if its just something I'm going to have to sit back and watch these poor guys and gals go through. Its heartbreaking.
     
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  4. Gaze

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    I notice a lot of cynicism in the classroom. There's a sense of "whatever" response to everything. It's pretty much "don't care, don't want to care, don't expect me to care, i'm just doing whatever." Not saying i'd expect them to be complete optimists and always caring about any and everything, but there's no balance, just extremes. They think in fatalistic extremes. It's sad, because as you've said dneecey, they have massive potential - unbelievably smart and savvy. They are charming and insightful like nobody's business, but their mindset/attitude sucks.
     
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    #4 Gaze, Aug 10, 2010
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2010
  5. Questingpoet

    Questingpoet Not Afraid to Use His Beard
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    I think that's a characteristic of youth in general, though there are exceptions. Disillusionment, anger, and self-pity go hand-in-hand with finding yourself. A real good question here that's implied in your original is: Does modern culture make this state worse now than say 30 years ago? I would have to answer yes to that. We place more and more burdens on people in terms of expectations now. You have to have the perfect life, the perfect mate, the perfect body. If you don't you are a failure! And it's all broadcast into our lives 24/7 via the internet, cable, and wifi. It's all about living up to standards that are pretty unrealistic most of the time. It's all consumer and profit driven. I personally think it's killing our Western society (and it's now infiltrating Eastern Society too). We also encourage youth to act and think this way in our movies, videos, and TV shows. We glamorize the rebel, and angry disfranchised younger person. It's sick really and not good for anyone--except maybe the corporations.
     
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    #5 Questingpoet, Aug 10, 2010
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  6. OP
    dneecey

    dneecey I am who I am.

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    I agree. I have had some of the best most intellectual conversations with the people I am speaking of in my life in particular, but its almost even as if the knowledge is angering. As though looking at the evidence of life is leaving the impression that no matter what they do they will not ever end up ahead. There are very few dreamers anymore. :( Or they are failing to turn up in my life among my family and friends.
     
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  7. NeverAmI

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    I can see both sides here.

    I am heavily cynical. What are we but commodities to the ruling class? And what is the game? Social reform through schooling and then direct placement into a job. What else is there?

    When I worked in a factory building axles, one of my co-workers mentioend, "Life is what you do in between work." That was an interesting way to put it, is life a byproduct now? Of course, what was life in the first place? It is pretty damn easy to survive these days, at least physiologically. It wasn't so not too long ago, people died, a lot. A hundred years ago famine might have been more of a concern, it still is in many countries; but in these priviliged places we live, we have nothing to do!

    Some people are more content with themselves than others. Some that aren't content build angst, and it is often misdirected. But what is wrong with being angry at your current state, or the state of a world?

    Who says there is only one attitude to have and that attitude is right? But yea, in an establishment where the core function is learning, it doesn't make a lot of sense to be there with no intention of actually learning, unless of course you truly don't want to be there, and you allow yourself to be forced into it (key word is allowed). It is rebellion within the lines. Not so rebellious that they ruin what is provided for them, but rebellious enough that they can caues some disruption without massive consequences.

    It is a fish swimming upstream without any clear place to go, this rebellion. Maybe they will find other fish to swim with them, but what's the point? Where are they going? Apparently, there isn't really anywhere good to go downstream either, so they just bide their time, direction being just one detail among many. Aimlessness, where does the stream go, anyway? I can tell you one thing, letting the stream take you, disregarding all the other fish and no longer fighting against the tide, is a big relief. However, I often find myself facing upstream again without consciously having decided to do so.

    I don't really have any clear direction with all of this, I think because the ultimate answer is to give up trying to find the best direction, there isn't one. We all face one direction that we have no control over, death. It isn't about reaching some far away point, it is about arriving where you currently are, right here, right now. The telescope only gives you things to yearn for, using your eyes alone give what is readily available. You can touch what you currently have, or you can grasp to touch something far away, taking time to get there, and in the meantime ignoring everything in between.

    Don't mind me, I didn't sleep much last night. :D
     
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  8. NeverAmI

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    Perhaps if you can help them to forget 'then' and 'there,' they can focus on the present.

    Some of the most inspirational people take you away from everything external, it is just that moment, that time. And that time stands forever by itself in memory as well, at least in my case.
     
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  9. Siamese cat

    Siamese cat Madame Cat strikes again

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    I noticed this too. I think it has a lot to do with an opinion of a lot of today's young people that they should just have something rather than deserve it or work for it. And it's natural for them to assume so. Now that you have an Internet you don't have to work as hard as you did to find out something, write an essay, learn something, watch something. So many things seem to be at the reach of your palm, but those really important like a good job, good friends, are those that one has to work hard to have (most of the time), and many young people just don't get this. And it's no wonder that they are angry.

    Other than that, I think that most of them doesn't know what to do with themselves most of the time, they just don't seem to have any clear direction in life, any clear vision what to do with themselves and where to turn, and again it's no wonder that they are angry.
     
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  10. Gaze

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    Being inspirational only works for so long. People need to have their own motivation to get things done.
     
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    #10 Gaze, Aug 10, 2010
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2010
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  11. Gaze

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    I just wanted to point out that there are no easy answers to this issue. Teachers, young and old, motivational or not, struggle with this issue. And unfortunatey, it can't be solved with simple changes to teaching methods or strategies. There are two many competing influences for youth attention today. Attitude is very important and at the end of the day, factors outside the classroom are having a much stronger negative influence on approaches to learning/classroom.

    Anyway, didn't want to make this thread about teaching, etc. I just wanted to explain that you can see this feeling of being disaffected/disconnected increase in the classroom.
     
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    #11 Gaze, Aug 10, 2010
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  12. Wyote

    Wyote Istaqa
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    I think this is more a problem of everyone, not just youth. Adults are just less vocal about it which is even more sad... quietly submitting defeat.
     
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  13. DoveAlexa

    DoveAlexa Chaz's Lovey Bunny
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    Well one reason why is clear, 20/30 years ago, if you got a degree you got a job. Now, not only does it not guarantee getting a job ever, you still have to have one if you want a good job. Everything reloves around going to uni, getting a job, retiring, dieing. Unfortunately, most people, even when they did everything right, still can't make it past the uni part. Some can't even make it there, since requirements to get into a class are up to a minimum of 85% in 4 key classes. What's worse, everyone sees the problem but neither employers nor parents want to change or act differently.

    2 of my friend had degrees and one didn't get a job till he was 27, the other, 30's. Thats a long while to wait to finally be able to pay off your debt and really start your life. I have another friend I work with and he's 25, has a degree, and has never gotten a job. No one wants to hire out of Uni anymore.
     
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  14. OP
    dneecey

    dneecey I am who I am.

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    I can see the reasons I suppose. I know why there is such anger. And as NAI said it's not really such a bad thing to be upset at a particular situation, or the way things are, but to just have misguided anger, or unresolved anger is detrimental, namely to the person with those harsh emotions. Why? Because it can actually lead to physical pain. It's just very sad to be the outsider watching the chaos and not being able to truly have a hand in helping make a change. Is there a way to make a change, some big picture I haven't seen that I can have a hand in?
     
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    #14 dneecey, Aug 10, 2010
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  15. DoveAlexa

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    Be a head of a company who hires kids out of Uni, and is willing to job train them. Also, offering job-training as a way to the career without uni would be even better.
     
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  16. NeverAmI

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    That is sort of why I am hesitant to fall back to Uni, because, I had a good job. I have 5 years of experience working for a great company, which has some major pull, but I am afraid of that employment gap.

    Outsourcing has equalized the job market to some extent in the world. There are a lot of people in other countries that work their ass off for scraps, and we are surprised when our jobs get eaten up overseas. We are spoiled in a lot of countries, and that era seems to be ending with globalization.

    I think a lot of this boils down to overpopulation, too many people, not enough jobs.

    But why have jobs in the first place? Because the majority of the world's resources are in the hands of a few and they won't readily hand it out without a trade. A lot of us just don't have anything to trade.

    Jobs provide us with stuff to trade, and if you are the person with the most resources, and you tweak your supply just right, you can make it so those that don't have anything to trade have to work their entire lives just to have a bit to trade. Ensure your status by guarding your resources against those whom have none.

    If you are REALLY good, make people obsessed with trading what you supply, and make them think it is their idea. Bask in their love for it.
     
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  17. Siamese cat

    Siamese cat Madame Cat strikes again

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    You'll always have a position in my company. :D

    I wouldn't be too afraid to go back to Uni after five years of experience, because you have already worked as opposed to those who are trying to get a job after Uni without any experience. And you can probably find some way to work even during Uni, at least as a free lancer since you still have a great knowledge and experience that you can cash in.
     
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  18. NeverAmI

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    I have considered doing private consulting. It really isn't a bad idea as long as I can start a good reputation.
     
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  19. bamf

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    I think the problem stems from societal expectations. Men are stereotypically expected to be "providers" and to prove their worth through independence. In past centuries in America one proved their man-hood through voting capabilities. Young men were pissed off because they weren't "men" to the upper echelons of society. They didn't have land, so they couldn't vote. When they were granted the right to vote, they still didn't have this desired "manhood" because focused had switched from voting to owning property. When land became cheap, it became owning slaves. Then it was education, then being "better" than women, then higher education, and now...well I'm not really even sure what it means to be a "man" in the stereotypical sense anymore.

    Boys also have conflicting role models growing up telling them that men are strong and powerful and violent, and also peaceful and loving and understanding. There is no clear cut example of what a young man is expected to do. If they are passive, peers may pick on them and cut them down. If they are aggressive, they may be ostracized. They are expected to remain level-headed, and if they show emotion they are weak. If they are too cold, they have no relationships. It's all a giant juggling act, and I think at a certain age the young men who dreamed of becoming a Jimmy Carter Rambo hybrid start to realize how disillusioned everything is. They also aren't financially independent and feel like boys yada yada yada. It's a whole mixture of things, and it can easily turn into male anger and aggression. Not to say women don't have their problems, but in males it seems to easily turn into outward anger and apathy.

    However, I'm young and angry and I think it is a good thing. I think a lot of things in the world are screwed up and this anger drives me to fix things. Granted, I could easily burn out someday so I just hope I'll have something accomplished when that seemingly inevitable day occurs.
     
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  20. Gaze

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    I agree that conflicting messages are causing a crisis of identity for young men. Not sure what changes can and should be made though. I think, for one, maybe they need more realistic male (and of course female) role models and mentors. But i know that this alone won't solve the problem. However, highly paid athletes and celebrities are definitely not providing them with a realistic image of success. It sets anyone up for major disappointment if they're not able to achieve even a small amount of the success they see in their idols.
     
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    #20 Gaze, Aug 10, 2010
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