[PUG] - Chivalry is sexist | INFJ Forum

[PUG] Chivalry is sexist

Discussion in 'Psychology and MBTI' started by slant, May 19, 2010.

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  1. slant

    slant amour-propre
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    Hello ladies and gentlemen! It is once again time for your dear old slant to come along and put another controversial topic on the plate. You may know me from hits like "It's the father's choice!" Or badboys like "Is Zoophilia 'wrong'?", But today I am bringing you an entirely different flavor.

    Recent events in my life have led me completely and utterly frustrated as I attempted to explain to a seventeen year old Christian boy that Chivalry is sexist and that I would appreciate it if he did NOT hold the door open for me unless my hands are full and I have no other way to do it myself. I was futhermore, insulted, when he told me he would never allow a girl to pay for a trax ticket for him! If he was that taken back he could of just said 'since I am uncomfortable with it I will pay you back' but no...this was all simply because I am female. I reasoned with him that I would have a sex change if it would have him treat me the way I wanted to be treated, yet, even this did not get through because he was venomously against this and believed I was trying to get him to abandon his own manners!

    Call me a feminist if you want, but Chivalry is damn sexist!


    ....and let the opinions start....now.


     
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  2. Skoffin

    Skoffin <font color=#00EE99>She Whose Name We Do Not Speak

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    I would agree that in some cases it is sexist, personally I'd rather people just use common sense and decent manners and leave it at that.
     
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  3. That Girl

    That Girl Do you have my answers?
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    I believe that chivalry enforces the idea of a patriarchal society. That is, male centered and identified. It reinforces the idea that men decide how people should be treated and women are the ones who need the treating. Chivalry is also sexist in the fact that it idealizes women, and then only certain kinds of women. There is a difference between being kind and generous, and holding the door for a woman simply because she is just that. I'm a strong proponent of going Dutch or taking turns on who pays the bill. I would hate to be paid for all the time. I have money and the means to do so myself. Sure, it is nice to be taken out from time to time but I believe a man would like the same treatment. There are certain things my boyfriend does for me most of the time, like going into the drugstore for cigarettes because I absolutely hate doing it for some odd reason. Still, there are certain things I do for him. I'll hold the door for him and get him things. I don't need someone to treat me as if I'm a dainty little girl. I'm not that way at all. I joke around and if you're not careful/able to keep up with me you might get your feelings hurt. I don't mean to; I just love to have fun and tease those closest to me. I don't want you to hold my hand and help me down from the rock I just climbed up. I'm getting dirty for a reason.
     
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  4. DefectiveCreative

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    Maybe it's time for chivalry to become gender blind.


    EDIT: lol, ninja'd
     
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    #4 DefectiveCreative, May 19, 2010
    Last edited: May 19, 2010
  5. Faye

    Faye ^_^
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    Well slant and That Girl, you are both very young, and someday you will learn that not everything has to be about you. Men have their place in society, and women have their place in society.... right behind men. Good examples include being barefoot in the kitchen, fabricating sandwiches, and being too dainty to open a door or a jar without the help of some testosterone-laden muscle. I sympathize fully with the nice your gentleman that you encountered slant; he was only doing what any good young Christian man would do. However, you took your crazy feminist ideals and acted in a way unbecoming of a young lady such as yourself. The fact that you have even considered the possibility of a sex change is a sign that you are deeply confused. I hope for your sake that you do get help and that the light of God shines favorably on your path.

    Again ladies, this is not about you. This is about what is right, and what is right is not necessarily what those 'feminists' and 'communists' might tell you. I know they seem 'cool' now, but when you are grown and able to think more clearly, you will see how foolish and irrational they really are.
     
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  6. enfp can be shy

    enfp can be shy people vs the bad people?
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    For some reason the most populated part of the monkey tribe of humans (although, note, not all of them) believes that the sex that puts its sexual organ inside the sexual organ of the other sex is the one that has to open doors, pay for dinners, and generally be the atlas who benevolently doesn't shrug when something itches. Guess what, all atlases out there could only shrug the world, if they've stolen it first, so even that part is hilarious, let alone the whole sexism.

    I guess, keeping ridiculousity-monstrohorribidities like racism and sexism is the cherry top that provides enough absurdity to deal with, neglecting the even bigger underlying absurdities. Ahhhh, I want sometimes to write a series of volumes dedicated to absurd around me. So much to write about... xD ...3 lives wont suffice to cover just the present moment.
     
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  7. OP
    slant

    slant amour-propre
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    L O L!!!!!

    And this kid actually did say that my ideas sounded like I was a communist! And I went on a rant about how real communism isn't really how the american media depicts it to be. Later on he told me that all islamic people are extremists and want to bomb america, and, that all of the middle east religions are evil and pend on the destruction of everything else. I wanted to laugh SO hard!
     
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  8. Ergo Christobal

    Ergo Christobal Talking Lightbulb
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    I've always considered myself chivalrous, but I extend it to everyone. Being nice and holding the door open is fine and good, but not just because you're a woman. Furthermore, I think most chivalrous guys like myself don't do it with any plan to "get in your pants".

    With my past girlfriends, I've always taken turn splitting checks, driving, paying for the movie, balance is the key to everything.

    I don't think chivalry is (or at least it shouldn't be) a construct of male-dominated society. It was originally created as a code of conduct to guide the respect and honor towards anyone. I think the true practitioners of chivalry still know this.

    Everyone else is just trying to get in your pants, most likely. Sorry.
     
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    #8 Ergo Christobal, May 19, 2010
    Last edited: May 19, 2010
  9. under skies

    under skies Community Member

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    Well, obviously.

    On a separate note, I like having doors held open for me, but I hold doors open for other people, too. It's not about sex/gender. It's just a polite thing to do.
     
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    #9 under skies, May 19, 2010
    Last edited: May 19, 2010
  10. Faye

    Faye ^_^
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    I would have.
     
  11. MindYourHead

    MindYourHead Courage doesn't always roar.

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    I think you are taking the gesture of someone, a male in this case, holding a door open for you far too seriously.
    Perhaps instead of berating him, you could say thank you, but that wasn't necessary, and move on with your day.
    I have held and opened doors for people no matter their gender. I have had the same done for me.
    I have never had a response other than thank you, or a smile.

    I have never sized someone up beforehand by thinking "Oh my God! that woman may not have the strength, nor the knowledge necessary to open that door! Here I come Miss Penelope to save the day!"

    When my Wife Lynn and myself were dating, we took turns on who paid the tab. Who drove. I never felt less of a man by letting her pay and or drive.
    I'd treat the next time around. It is only fair.
    She also at times will get to a door before I do, and will hold it open for me just as often as I do for her.
    It's all good.

    This world would be a better place if everyone occasionally held the door for each other.
    I also think most Feminist don't mind a door being held now and then. There are far bigger battles they can choose to fight.

    Edit: And just what does his Christianity have to do with anything?
     
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    #11 MindYourHead, May 19, 2010
    Last edited: May 19, 2010
  12. Gaze

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    Agree
     
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  13. OP
    slant

    slant amour-propre
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    He attributed the use of chivalry to his religion and that it's the way everyone at his church and his family acts, so why shouldn't he?

    It's apparent that the reason he wouldn't let me pay for his trax ticket was because I am a girl and a girl should never pay for a guy. The reason the door had to be opened, even though he opens it for everyone, had to do with the fact that I am female; so if I opened the door for him he refused to walk through it.
     
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    #13 slant, May 19, 2010
    Last edited: May 19, 2010
  14. MindYourHead

    MindYourHead Courage doesn't always roar.

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    I see were you are coming from now. That is a bit extreme on his part also.
     
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    #14 MindYourHead, May 19, 2010
    Last edited: May 19, 2010
  15. NiennaLadyOfTears

    NiennaLadyOfTears Goth Hobbit Lass
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    As a Christian, I believe from study of the Bible that God commands husbands to love their wives. One of the best ways, in my opinion, to show love to a wife is to do things that people seem to think are "chivalrous" but are really just common sense respect. My husband knows I am strong enough to open my own door but it's putting the wife's needs ahead of his own to do things like opening the door for her, etc. If I had a son who honored me like that, I would encourage that behavior rather than discourage it.

    I am a woman who is capable of taking care of myself. But in some cases, a son or a husband wants to show his love for you by doing little things like that for you. I would not say that chivalry is sexist, at least when the motivation behind it is respect. I would be thrilled if some day I had a son that held the door open for his mother, because it shows his commitment to obeying Ephesians 6:2 "Honor your father and mother."

    And even if this boy is not your son (re-reading I see that he might not be) I think it is still a good practice to show honor to others, period.
     
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    #15 NiennaLadyOfTears, May 19, 2010
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  16. Gaze

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    I don't think anyone here agrees with sexist thinking, but whatever his motives or reasons, you're still free to interpret it however you choose. You can choose to take it as a gesture of courtesy, whether or not it was intended that way. If he feels that his religious beliefs are a good enough reason to perform this gesture, then that's his right. Of course, you have the right to refuse the gesture, but he has the right to his beliefs, whether or not you agree, doesn't he?
     
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  17. Siamese cat

    Siamese cat Madame Cat strikes again

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    I feel obligated to ask is this really what you think or is this supposed to be some kind of sarcasm? I really want to see it as a sarcasm, but I'm afraid that it was not meant that way, and clearly I don't know you enough to judge.
     
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  18. Ergo Christobal

    Ergo Christobal Talking Lightbulb
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    To his credit, usually guys do this because they feel insecure about their manliness, not because they feel they need to due to your gender. It's not that much better, but some guys feel inadequate in situations when the woman is "doing his job", not the above mentioned superiority.
     
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  19. Gaze

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    :m131:
     
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  20. On my own path

    On my own path Community Member

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    To me there is a difference between being polite and being chivalrous. Being polite entails being kind and performing acts of kindness towards people regardless of sex; chivalry is kind to females on the grounds of them being female alone. As such under my own system of definitions and semantics, chivalry is by definition sexist
     
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