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Axis of Functions

Discussion in 'Psychology and MBTI' started by VH, Jan 25, 2010.

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  1. VH

    VH Variable Hybrid

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    Here's my wacky theory of the day.

    I was thinking about this, a bit and I want to run this past you to see what you think about it.

    We know that there is a lot of overlap with each function base. For instance, Te and Ti have a fair amount of overlap, as do Fe and Fi, as well as Ne and Ni, and also Se and Si. The descriptions of each of these have to focus on the differences to distinguish them.



    That said, I can't help but to consider that these functions aren't as compartmentalized as their descriptions imply. I don't think Fi is Fi, and Fe is Fe, and never the two shall meet. In fact, I think the F function is more of a sliding scale. If a person leans more toward their introverted thought modes, then they'll exhibit more Fi behaviors. The opposite is also true. As a person leans more on their extroverted modes, they'll exhibit more of their Fe traits.

    And so on and so forth for the rest of their base functions.

    For example...

    This is a crude representation of N.

    Ni <---|---|---|---> Ne

    Let's say a person has a usual peak of N somewhere around here...

    Ni <---|X--|---|---> Ne

    We'd define that as Ni. However, when that person leans on their extroverted modes, they could move their N to somewhere more like...

    Ni <---|---|X--|---> Ne

    We'd have to define that as Ne. However, this means that the person has a range of N usage that looks more like this...

    Ni <--x|XXX|Xx-|---> Ne

    If this is the case, then we've got an entirely new approach to the Jungian functions, and the map of a person's mind might actually look something like this...

    Ni <--x|XXX|Xx-|---> Ne
    Fi <--x|XXX|XXX|xx-> Fe
    Ti <--x|XXX|Xx-|---> Te
    Si <---|--x|XXX|x--> Se
     
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    #1 VH, Jan 25, 2010
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  2. IndigoSensor

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    I like this! It concicely explains the adaptabillity of people in respect to how they choose to use their functions. Normally, explaining this takes a long time, but this gets it to the point pretty quickly.

    This is what mine should roughly look like:

    Ni <xXX|Xxx|x--|---> Ne
    Fi <---|--x|xXX|Xx-> Fe
    Ti <---|---|xxX|x--> Te
    Si <XXX|xx-|---|---> Se
     
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    #2 IndigoSensor, Jan 25, 2010
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  3. OP
    VH

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    I think mine would look like this...

    Ni <--x|XXX|XXX|x--> Ne
    Fi <--x|XXX|XXX|x--> Fe
    Ti <-xx|XXX|Xxx |---> Te
    Si <---| --x |XXX |xx-> Se

    Counting capital X's as 2, bold as 3, and big as 4...

    31 X's on the I side.
    27 X's on the E side.

    28 X's on the P side.
    32 X's on the J side.

    Add in N > F > T > S, and you've got a very barely INFJ who has clear leanings toward INFP, ENFJ, and ENFP.

    Yeah, I think this is pretty accurate way to assess the function preferences and capacities. I wonder if it will fit into my sig.
     
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    #3 VH, Jan 25, 2010
  4. Raccoon Love

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    Mines:

    Ni     <xxX|XXX|---|---> Ne
    Fi <---|---|-XX|XXX> Fe
    Ti <---|---|XXX|x--> Te
    Si <xxx|xx-|---|---> Se

    lol, not sure how much sense this makes but I tried, very nice theory Von Hase.
     
    #4 Raccoon Love, Jan 25, 2010
  5. sassafras

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    Very interesting theory, VH. I think my chart would look something like this.

    Ni <--x|xXX|xx-|---> Ne
    Fi <---|--x|xXX|xx-> Fe
    Ti <---|xxX|Xxx|---> Te
    Si <---|--x|XXX|x--> Se
     
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    #5 sassafras, Jan 25, 2010
  6. Quinlan

    Quinlan Right the First Time!

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    I don't know, I still see the functions as quite distinct.
     
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    #6 Quinlan, Jan 25, 2010
  7. IndigoSensor

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    I do as well, however, most people inheriently overlap them and merge them in some ways. It is near impossible to totally seperate the functions within a person, because they aren't intended to work by themselves.
     
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    #7 IndigoSensor, Jan 25, 2010
  8. Pristinegirl

    Pristinegirl Well-known member

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    Wow Von Hase, haha I am so amazed, you just broadened my horizons ^^
     
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    #8 Pristinegirl, Jan 26, 2010
  9. aeon

    aeon Amoureux des Chatons
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    Agreed, and without some other metric test, there is no way to know where a "peak" lies on the spectrum.

    That said, one can still make a pretty graph. :tongue:

    [​IMG]


    cheers,
    Ian
     
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    #9 aeon, Jan 26, 2010
  10. TaylorS

    TaylorS Community Member

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    I would be:

    Ni <xXX|XXx|x--|---> Ne
    Fi <--    -|-xx|XXX|xx-> Fe
    Ti <-x    x|XXx|x--|---> Te
     Si <---|--x|xXx|x--> Se
     
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    #10 TaylorS, Jan 31, 2010
  11. OP
    VH

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    If there are peaks, they're likely to be situational, however the overall peak is probably in the center of your bars. That's just a guess though. I'm still kicking this idea around myself.
     
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    #11 VH, Jan 31, 2010
  12. crystaluni

    crystaluni Community Member

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    I don't find this theory wacky at all. In fact, I came up with a related theory, but represented it in percentages and a three-dimensional chart with three axis (X: E to I; Y: N to S; Z: T to F) where the 8 functions were represented as overlapping colored rectangular prisms. (So you can express ranges of probability in a colorful way!)

    [​IMG]

    So for instance, I obtained the following scores from a Jung test:

    E=50%; I=50%
    N=70%; S=30%
    F=50%; T=50%
    P=50%; J=50%

    That would type me as an xNxx, right?

    But what if my percentage E-ness or I-ness reflected my propensity to E or I all my functions? To determine the probability that I would express Ne-ness or Ni-ness for example, I'd multiple my percentages for E or I with my percentage for N.

    So if E=.50 and N=.70 then Ne=.35

    Then I can determine the probability of using all the other functions in a similar manner:

    Ne:.70N x .50e = .35Ne
    Ni: .70N x .50i = .35Ni
    Se: .30S x .50e = .15Se
    Si: .30S x .5i = .15Si
    Te: .50T x .50e = .25Te
    Ti: .50T x .50i = .25Ti
    Fi: .50F x .50i = .25Fi
    Fe: .50F x .50e = .25Fe

    And the math still comes out right for each of the 16 types. Given that I'm an xNxx, I am equally likely to exhibit behaviors that are INFJ or INTJ or ENTP or ENFP.

    INFJ:

    +35% Ni (Dom)
    +25% Fe (Aux)
    +25% Ti (Ter)
    +15% Se (Inf)
    ---------
    100%

    INTJ:

    +35% Ni (Dom)
    +25% Te (Aux)
    +25% Fi (Ter)
    +15% Se (Inf)
    --------
    100%

    ENTP*:

    +35% Ne (Dom)
    +25% Ti (Aux)
    +25% Fe (Ter)
    +15% Si (Inf)
    -------------
    100%

    ENFP:

    +35% Ne (Dom)
    +25% Fi (Aux)
    +25% Te (Ter)
    +15% Si (Inf)
    ------------
    100%

    And I am less likely to be one of the S types as either Se or Si can not be probabilistically dominant functions since their probable occurence is only 15%.

    *playful Ti grin*

    :m024:
     
    #12 crystaluni, Jan 31, 2010
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2010
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  13. NeverAmI

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    This is just FUN!

    I still wish there was a better way to test initially. The probability that you will get accurate results from the initial test without being in a neutral state I would assume are fairly low.
     
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    #13 NeverAmI, Jan 31, 2010
  14. aeon

    aeon Amoureux des Chatons
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    Given that cognitive functions are discrete elements that are their own processes, there isn't overlap or a continuum between the introverted and extroverted aspects of a given function class - so the use of an axis isn't really warranted in my view, based on Jungian theory.

    To that end, if there is a peak for a given cognitive function, it wouldn't be influenced to move this way or that by some other function, even the other pairing within a function class.


    cheers,
    Ian
     
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    #14 aeon, Jan 31, 2010
  15. INTJMom

    INTJMom Community Member

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    Yeah, you could easily get Xander on your side on this theory. He very much believes something very similar.

    For myself, I think it's interesting that Fi looks and behaves differently from Fe, so I don't have a problem with the differentiation.
     
    #15 INTJMom, Jan 31, 2010
  16. IndigoSensor

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    Crystaluni, that is fantasticly put together!
     
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    #16 IndigoSensor, Jan 31, 2010
  17. NeverAmI

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    That makes sense, in the idea that you aren't redistributing points, but rather can accumulate new points (experience) for each cognitive function which wouldn't require a loss in ability in another.

    Is it proven one way or the other if you can only balance what you have or that you can build up each side?

    You could still potentially make VH's theory work based on that. think of the 2 cognitive functions as silos which can grow, then you put a plank of wood spanning accross the top of both. If there is an imbalance, then the plank creates an angle that marbles or some metric could roll to one side or the other in the case of vast imbalance, although that would actually be the opposite of this scale because the marbles would gravitate towards the lower, less developed process.
     
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    #17 NeverAmI, Jan 31, 2010
  18. aeon

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    Jungian theory as well as cognitive theory both state that functions are independent of one another, even if class pairs have some degree of likeness in their description.

    That said, I don't think any part of cognitive theory or MBTI or the like has been "proven," at least in the scientific sense.

    Given that Jungian theory as well as cognitive theory both state that functions are independent of one another, I don't think that metaphor works.

    Then again, Jungian theory as well as cognitive theory could both be wrong. They are, after all, theories.


    cheers,
    Ian
     
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    #18 aeon, Jan 31, 2010
  19. OP
    VH

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    +1
     
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    #19 VH, Jan 31, 2010
  20. OP
    VH

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    Not really. These theories are attempting to isolate the extremes in cognition. To do so, they have to make very clear distinctions and definitions.

    Agreed. All of this theory is based largely on conjecture and self evaluation which is based on self perception, which can easily be swayed. It is very possible that none of these theories are even close to accurate.

    Actually, it can't work any other way. The theory states that these extremes of cognition work in tandem with one another at all times, and that all of the cognitive functions are constantly in use, which is what comprises 'cognition'. The differences that are being mapped out are preferences within the use of all of them. To make an analogy, it would be like saying the parts of the human body are independent of one another. They're not. They are distinct, but not independent. Some people are better at using their feet than their hands, others have stronger hearts than stomachs, some prefer their left hand over their right. However, everyone uses all of their parts (assuming they haven't had any of their parts removed), and uses them in tandem with the other parts in the various systems of the body.

    Since the time of Jung, we've been able to define the systems of the brain, and there seems to be a correlation between them and the cognitive functions. Ni seems to reside in the Cingulate System. Ne seems to reside in parts of the Cingulate and Limbic Systems. Fi seems to reside in the Limbic System and Temporal Lobes. Ti seems to be rather focused in the Temporal Lobes. Te seems to be focused in the left Frontal Lobe, and Fe seems to be focused in the right Frontal Lobe. Meanwhile, Se seems to be centered in the Cerbral Cortex, and Si seems to be centered in both the Cerbral Cortex and the center of the Frontal Lobes.

    This alone suggests that the cognitive functions are a bit more fluid than not, as the functions themselves seem to overlap the physical areas of the brain. An individual can develop any area of the mind and learn to use it in tandem with other areas, and it appears that the flow of thought corresponds to cerbral geography, in proportion to the location.

    Very much agreed.
     
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    #20 VH, Jan 31, 2010
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