Arrogance

Appoggiatura

Appoggiatura

Community Member
MBTI
INFJ
Enneagram
I don't know
Arrogance, superiority, uppity-ness, call it what you will...

As much as I abhor arrogance and as much as I keep my own arrogance in check (for I don't want to be a hypocrite), I know that at times I feel traces of being superior to other people. It has to do with personal integrity and morals, funnily enough (rather than other more common things like intellect or appearances or wealth or stuff like that).
When I come across acquaintances or people who have the "player"/"flirt" mentality (that is just one example)...I don't necessarily condemn them for their behavior...because it's what they themselves choose to do, but inside I just pity them.

Um, I don't have any specific questions for this topic.
Any thoughts, though? or are other INFJs/people more arrogant about other personal qualities? Is arrogance a universal trait :m083:?
 
Appoggiatura said:
Arrogance, superiority, uppity-ness, call it what you will...

As much as I abhor arrogance and as much as I keep my own arrogance in check (for I don't want to be a hypocrite), I know that at times I feel traces of being superior to other people. It has to do with personal integrity and morals, funnily enough (rather than other more common things like intellect or appearances or wealth or stuff like that).
When I come across acquaintances or people who have the "player"/"flirt" mentality (that is just one example)...I don't necessarily condemn them for their behavior...because it's what they themselves choose to do, but inside I just pity them.

Um, I don't have any specific questions for this topic.
Any thoughts, though? or are other INFJs/people more arrogant about other personal qualities? Is arrogance a universal trait :m083:?
Click to expand...

I was talking in another thread about how I hate egotism, but maybe it is actually arrogance that I despise, I think it is. I think it is VERY important in life to keep an open mind, not to believe you know everything. I think constant flirting, etc can be more of a reaction in a cause/effect situation. But in terms of arrogance, some people are just naturally inclined not to see the forest for the trees, and that saddens me.

We all have short-sighted moments, but when life slaps you in the face, it is important to take a step back and look at why it happened. My old roommate was notorious for rationalizing and placing the blame on others and never actually learning from even the hardest lessons in life.
 
I am not going to lie, there are a lot of people I feel I am superior to (and in some cases, very far superior to), but I never outwardly show it. I end up having thoughts to myself like "sheesh, I am so much further along then they are...". While I can't exactly stop these thoughts, when I catch myself I tell myself to stop, and not think like that. Simply because it is unfair and it would be very hurtful if I were to tell them what was going on inside of my mind. Despite what I might pick up on, and if other people would even agree with my observations, I can't get inside of that persons head and understand who they are. Who am I to judge them.

That said, I hate arrogance in other people. I seldom shoot them down, but I will if they directly try to involve me and poke me quite a bit over the issue. When I see someone acting arrogent I will not acknowlage their presence.
 
IndigoSensor said:
I am not going to lie, there are a lot of people I feel I am superior to (and in some cases, very far superior to), but I never outwardly show it. I end up having thoughts to myself like "sheesh, I am so much further along then they are...". While I can't exactly stop these thoughts, when I catch myself I tell myself to stop, and not think like that. Simply because it is unfair and it would be very hurtful if I were to tell them what was going on inside of my mind. Despite what I might pick up on, and if other people would even agree with my observations, I can't get inside of that persons head and understand who they are. Who am I to judge them.

That said, I hate arrogance in other people. I seldom shoot them down, but I will if they directly try to involve me and poke me quite a bit over the issue. When I see someone acting arrogent I will not acknowlage their presence.
Click to expand...

I have felt this way many times as well. Yet, I have learned something from probably each one of them. Not always as great of a lesson as others.
 
Their just flaws of character like insecurity is. I dont think mbti has anything to do with it either (some people say INTJs are pricks, look at me, am I a prick?)
;)
 
From time to time arrogant thoughts cross my mind but I banish them pretty quickly or else I laugh about it.
It's hard to be arrogant when you have a strong sense of empathy.
When I get that superior thing I tell myself to "eff off", I think we had a thread on that lol
 
It also helps to separate intrinsic value from external value. Beethoven said, "there are a thousand princes, but one Beethoven". It was externally true. I think arrogance comes into play when a superior trait, skill, or perspective is assumed to align with some kind of intrinsic superiority. If I start with the assumption that each human being has a worth that is intrinsically infinite, then for one to be a genius and another mentally disabled, or for one to have clear understanding and other to be woefully confused, can only change the size of two different infinite sets. There is not a way for one to be of greater value than the other.

I can't prove that the intrinsic and external can be entirely separated, but it is the only position I've found that can remove arrogance from the question.
 
When INFJs are arrogant, they are usually right. When ENFPs are arrogant, they are usually wrong.

Beware! :m140::m140::m140::m140: /////........ (:
 
Julia said:
It also helps to separate intrinsic value from external value. Beethoven said, "there are a thousand princes, but one Beethoven". It was externally true. I think arrogance comes into play when a superior trait, skill, or perspective is assumed to align with some kind of intrinsic superiority. If I start with the assumption that each human being has a worth that is intrinsically infinite, then for one to be a genius and another mentally disabled, or for one to have clear understanding and other to be woefully confused, can only change the size of two different infinite sets. There is not a way for one to be of greater value than the other.

I can't prove that the intrinsic and external can be entirely separated, but it is the only position I've found that can remove arrogance from the question.
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is this what you are saying

x= intrinsic and y=external k?

x=y and cannot ever be x>y or x<y
 
InTheWomblikeCocoon said:
is this what you are saying

x= intrinsic and y=external k?

x=y and cannot ever be x>y or x<y
Click to expand...
I was trying to describe how I think about it, but there might be a clearer way. I was basically saying that the intrinsic value is of such worth (I used the word infinite) that the differences viewed externally in terms of performance, skill, character, are negligible in estimating worth.

If you see intrinsic worth as being infinite, then external differences make no impact whatsoever on the volume of that worth. Infinity plus 2 is not greater than infinity plus 1.
 
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Julia said:
It also helps to separate intrinsic value from external value. Beethoven said, "there are a thousand princes, but one Beethoven". It was externally true. I think arrogance comes into play when a superior trait, skill, or perspective is assumed to align with some kind of intrinsic superiority. If I start with the assumption that each human being has a worth that is intrinsically infinite, then for one to be a genius and another mentally disabled, or for one to have clear understanding and other to be woefully confused, can only change the size of two different infinite sets. There is not a way for one to be of greater value than the other.

I can't prove that the intrinsic and external can be entirely separated, but it is the only position I've found that can remove arrogance from the question.
Click to expand...


So, is what you're saying: everyone is essentially equal (i.e. everyone is unique)? What purpose does external value serve then? I'm curious ^-^
 
I was thinking today that I have spent so much of my life living for myself and not for others. I think that this can be the roots of arrogance. Arrogance has is the illusion of being separate from others in my own superiority. I lost my way and I loose my way when this happens. Some of the most important things that I happened to me has been when I helped somone else for the shear sake of helping them. Not for gain so much as I could understand the suffering and I wanted to help someone who was in a silmilar situation. When I do this I learn the most about myself. Arrogance separates us from others and others humanity. We all have such similar struggles. If you just read the posts I can identify with so many of what people say here. The reality, I think, is that we are so much more alike than we think.

If I see someone that is making the same mistakes or choices that I made a year ago. All that is is timing. I happen to be a little farther down the path than the other person. Maybe I am ten years older than that person. If that is the case they are making the mistakes at a younger age and actually did things faster than I did.

This is not an even playing field that is not how life works. You dont know what people are dealing with in their lives that you dont see. Maybe a family member has cancer, maybe they have a learning disability, or maybe the other person was abandoned

In the classroom, people celebrate the genius. The child that can play Beethoven at 2 years of age. To me they have a gift that they did not have to work for. Dont get me wrong it is wonderful. they did not work for it.

I celebrate the child or person that has to work hard for every scrap that they earn. They get laughed at. They get teased and they dont give up. They work their buts off. That is the child or person who has my appreciation and admiration.

If it makes anyone feel better to look down their nose on someone else because you are so wonderful......I feel sorry for you

You dont understand a thing
 
Appoggiatura said:
So, is what you're saying: everyone is essentially equal (i.e. everyone is unique)? What purpose does external value serve then? I'm curious ^-^
Click to expand...
External value should be respected and dealt with honestly I think. Superior skills provide a person with the ability to solve problems more efficiently. In my view external worth serves every purpose one might think it does except for determining the intrinsic worth of a person.

Failing a test doesn't mean you fail as a person. It means you failed a test and nothing more or less than that. Coming in first place means you demonstrate the best skill level in that group. That skill level should reasonably lead to whatever opportunities require it. It doesn't mean your life is worth more than anyone else who competed. To some extent I think people do separate these two, but they do get muddled and intermingled in unhealthy ways when people are devastated and feel worthless over losses and take to feeling they have more worth than others when they win. Assuming worth and external performance are equal is by its nature dehumanizing. It reduces a human being to a win or loss and the person is far more than that.

Edit: To clarify - it seems there is a link between arrogance and assuming that external factors are what determine worth because it is the external that differentiates people and places them in relative positions of power and social worth. By that same token these same external factors are also the main assault on a sense of personal worth. It isn't possible to have arrogance without self-depreciation lurking in its shadows. Becoming centered in a sense of intrinsic worth (while still seeing the use and value of the relative external features) is the approach that cannot be shaken. Arrogance by its nature is not stable because it is reliant on the external over which a person has limited control.
 
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Julia said:
I was trying to describe how I think about it, but there might be a clearer way. I was basically saying that the intrinsic value is of such worth (I used the word infinite) that the differences viewed externally in terms of performance, skill, character, are negligible in estimating worth.

If you see intrinsic worth as being infinite, then external differences make no impact whatsoever on the volume of that worth. Infinity plus 2 is not greater than infinity plus 1.
Click to expand...
o, ok
 
Julia, that makes perfect sense!
 
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