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ARG!

Blind Bandit said:
1. think on and try to understand something not so much judgment yet(Ni)
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What are you talking about? Ni is very judgmental... it comes to conclusions... thats what it does, it boils the complex down into simple understanding, its how you can whittle the cosmos down to a gut feeling and know an answer without knowing all the whys of knowing why you know it...

coming to a conclusion = judgement. Especially when its Fe'd out to the people around us and involves how that judgement will affect/effect them and their feelings about us.

Just because we snap to conclusions inside however does not mean we are so invested in them, thats the other end of Ni, and Fe, we dont really put our internal feelings (meager as they are) into them... its just a base point to build on and begin the process of understanding.

I come to conclusions about people based on subtle cues and hints and things they say constantly, I keep 99.9% of it to myself because I know it isnt always seeing the whole picture (thats Ti) but its often correct which Ti must think hard to figure out or come to a new conclusion. Ni just provides answers to the questions while Ti figures them out.

All the while Se and Fe are taking in external stimuli emotional and environmental/physical to feed Nis perceptions,while Ti analyzes whats real and accurate.
 
I honestly don't think i'm that special of a unicorn. People 'get' me, they just might find me odd and overly fanciful. And that's okay! I always defer to the lovely Mr Vonnegut when I'm feeling like Miss Understood instead of Miss Adventure.

"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"

But i'm a pretty shite example of an Infj, i have to say. Unless you rilly rilly know me, I'm not sure how obvious my infjness is. I test intp half the time anyway. and if i'm in extreme party mode (which is rare) I read enfp. Go figure.
 
I don't believe anyone can truly understand me. I don't mean this in the mopey, emo-kid way, but realistically, everyone else is making an effort to approximate my emotions and thoughts to compare those ideas with their own. They can never feel my emotions and thoughts in their full intensity, and thus, can never really know "me", but rather, only a rough approximation of me.

I am the only one who has access to understanding myself truly.

I don't believe INFJs understand me better than other types. Yes, many INFJs instinctively know how to respond to me, because we have similar needs, but who I am from inside can never be replicated, because my inner world cannot be translated outward.

Other INFJs are able to show empathy, because my thought-processes are approximately similar to theirs, but it's superficial. On that note, ENFPs and ENFJs are capable of this empathy as well to the same degree, but as I said, it's not a thorough understanding either way.

Therefore, all types are equally as likely to be in the dark regarding "you". Some types are only able to feign empathy and understanding better than others.

---

EDIT: I'm speaking in absolutes.

Point being, I don't understand why other types cannot understand the INFJ mind if one explains their motivations to the person being spoken to regardless of their type. It's a shallow, approximated understanding either way.
 
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Can anyone get into anothers mind and perfectly understand them? 99% of the time, no. That 1% is what friends and spies are made of.
 
corndogman said:
Can anyone get into anothers mind and perfectly understand them? 99% of the time, no. That 1% is what friends and spies are made of.
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Aren't INFJs 1% of the population? They must all be spies!
 
Chessie said:
I need to find a better way to get across the idea that 'NO...you don't get what it's like in my head and YES, I do get what it's like in yours'.
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I was going to pass this thread up, but this comment is just disgustingly self righteous.
 
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........................
I agreed with Chessie's premise, that it's a sad truth that we're often misunderstood.
But.
We're not that special, completely misunderstood, or especially complex in a particular way.
Who's never being misunderstood? I'm sure no one does. But then, who's never misunderstood things?
Everyone does.

Then it's the matter of sympathy drawn, empathy used, the fragility of your own psyche, and how much you're willing to play by other people's rules, and how much you're demanding others to play by your rules.

A lot of times I find it hard to understand other people. INFJs, INFPs, INTPs. ISTJs. ESTJs. ENTJs, ENFPs, EVERYONE EXCEPT ME. Frankly speaking, it's as much as how I'm often misunderstood by others. You begin to think you understand, then you saw something and then you read wrongly. And then you responded wrongly, and then it's they turn.

But then, try. If you are misunderstood, explain. If they still do, accept.

I cannot talk to others in a more hostile environment, but personally speaking, if I get everything to follow my rules and my way, in 10 years I'm going to regret it more than I did now.
 
I feel that introverts are generally misunderstood as a whole. And intuitives to an extent as well. I think that our feeling of being misunderstood stems from what [MENTION=1451]Billy[/MENTION] said earlier that we obsess about random little things and then get depressed from it and when we try to explain it, we can't articulate it. In other words, yeah, who wouldn't think we're weird?
 
for the most part, I agree - sometimes, though, I DO understand... it's just that I either can't phrase it, or I phrase it terribly. It really is hard to describe... I mean, it's Ni, not Ti. I would have to have an hour and a better grasp of poetry to explain it.
 
Chessie said:
There's a thing I've noticed an awful lot on the forums since it's one of the few places I get to see INFJ's interact with non INFJ types in large numbers.

It's an assumption that non-INFJ types make and it regards the INFJ intuition/insight. The assumption is that it is possible for a non-INFJ to understand the internal operation of an INFJ and to give them advice. While it is extremely nice to get advice from people of many different perspectives it is literally impossible for other types to step entirely into an INFJ's shoes.

The universe an INFJ inhabits is vast, nebulous, and simultaneously abstract and extremely solid. We have fractal brains. Our impressions may often be seen as somewhat unfriendly (particularly from the inside) but they're very rarely entirely incorrect. Most often we find ourselves unable to find the words to express an idea which is composed of a mixture of emotions, images, sensations, and other emphemera.

The lack of expression can be problematic since all too often the external input often confirms the internal set of ideas but we can't get the output out there in sufficient quantities or with a particular communication style to make it understood that WE UNDERSTAND.

This is a truth. Sad, but true. It is impossible to understand an INFJ if you aren't one. That sentence is going to get some big denials (I'm looking at you INTP's, ISTJ's, and INTJ's) but I swear it's true. We read your replies to us and the replies from other INFJ's seem to...sync...even if there's disagreement. I do wish this were easier to express.

I would love some input from some of the other INFJ's. I need to find a better way to get across the idea that 'NO...you don't get what it's like in my head and YES, I do get what it's like in yours'.
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Hmmm... I don't waste my time trying to get understanding from people who cannot (or will not) understand. If someone tries to communicate understanding, but they're off - again I don't waste my time trying to fine-tune it - I'll just listen, or excuse myself if I am busy.

As for letting on that I do get what in other's heads - that emerges very quickly in conversation or in the questions I ask.


[MENTION=2575]Chessie[/MENTION]; What do you get out of people realising they don't get you?
 
kiu said:
Anyway, I'll stand aside.
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Ok. This is it, in plain English. I have changed my mind. I will not stand aside. I will contribute to any thread that I wish on this forum and I'll be as logical as I deem appropriate. This thread and all others like it are upsetting to me. I think they are rude and juvenile. If you wish to air your emotions do so. I am not stopping you. If you don't wish to take my advice. Don't. I am not forcing you. There have been people on this forum who have found me helpful and vice versa. There are several non-infjs who I miss dearly but they aren't here anymore because of the veiled hostility. I'm not going to allow any of you to put me in a position where I'm second guessing myself. I will act according to my conscience. If someone is making dangerous decisions I will call them on it. I will not have it on my conscience that I was quiet when I should not have been. Put me on your ignore list if you wish. Remove yourselves from my friends list if you wish. Block me from your blogs if you wish. Just know this. You are part of the one billion most privileged people on this planet. You aren't scrounging through rubbish heaps for food or living a life barely above that of an animal. Be grateful and stop being so damn self-centred.

I will not discuss this any further.

I have spoken.

(Yes. I know it's an arrogant thing to say. Deal with it.)
 
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kiu said:
I will not discuss this any further.
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She said after having a rant after saying she wouldn't discuss things any further.

Considerations:

a) Who are we to tell others how to express themselves? Now that's is what I call petty, juvenile, arrogant and self-righteous.
b) Who are we to go about telling people what they are allowed to discuss when they are not harming us.

Might I suggested to allow people the space they require to deal with what they wish to discuss rather than demanding unrealistic levels of coherence to what others might deem to be 'acceptable'.

It is not anyone's forum more than the person who made the OP.

They made a serious point and they deserve our respect and the space they require to sort through that. What they do not require is the belligerence that is being undertaken by a group of posters in this thread.
 
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[MENTION=2575]Chessie[/MENTION]... *exhales* I am going to assume you are having a bad day or a rough patch. This thread topic is highly offensive to me. Highly. To assume that you are able to put yourself entirely in anyone else's shoes, especially another type is arrogant & dangerous. I don't wish to attack you, but I value other type's input very much, and need it to grow as person. ENFJs & INTJs are really good at talking sense into me, and they are extremely empathetic. INFJs, we're misunderstood and we misunderstand. Those are the cards we're dealt. Let's pony up & deal with it!
 
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