Are we as a society being kept from discussing the big issues?

[Matt3737]

[MENTION=1871]muir[/MENTION]

I would like to know about a time in your life that you experienced a strong emotional reaction. Love, anger, sorrow, or joy. Can you describe a time in your life you felt really strongly towards someone specific in your life.

 

[muir]

@muir

I would like to know about a time in your life that you experienced a strong emotional reaction. Love, anger, sorrow, or joy. Can you describe a time in your life you felt really strongly towards someone specific in your life.

I'm not going to do that Matt

The whole point of this thread was that it was made as a reaction against how some people take the spotlight and then put it on the wrong thing to distract people away from the important stuff

Don't worry about any of the crap that happened between us before....lets think about where we want to go from here

We don't need to agree on everything....we don't

And if we have debates over stuff and can't change each others minds its cool because others may even benefit from whats discussed

Either way its all cool

 

[sassafras]

I don't have a problem admitting to when I get angry. I have normal emotional reactions. I got angry and I expressed it. I am asking whether or not muir has normal emotional reactions.

Has he ever been sad or cried about an experience? What about love, has he ever been in love with another human being? These are simple, straightforward questions that I, and I believe everyone, at this forum is entitled to ask and given the context of the discussion be insightful as to the nature of the problem we're having.

I think this issue can be resolved satisfactorily for everyone. I just want to come to a mutual understanding so what happened before doesn't happen again.

Sorry, Matt, you know I have an immense respect for you, but in this case, what you're trying to spoon feed me here is absolute bullshit. This line of questioning has a lot of presuppositions built into it, the most blatant of which is insinuating that there is something abnormal about muir. Earlier, in another thread, you wanted to know about who he is and what he does for a living and what his other interests are and when he didn't want to play your game because he found your motives suspicious, you blew up. Now you're asking him about basic human emotions---the question being if he has ever been sad or cried about an experience-- which is not something you casually ask someone unless you suspect that they aren't like you or I. The fact that you patronizingly explained that 'this is what people do when they're angry' further suggests that you are trying to make him out to be either a child or a maladjusted adult.

Forgive me if I don't see how this contributes to anyone's mutual understanding.

 

[Matt3737]

I'm not going to do that Matt

The whole point of this thread was that it was made as a reaction against how some people take the spotlight and then put it on the wrong thing to distract people away from the important stuff

Don't worry about any of the crap that happened between us before....lets think about where we want to go from here

We don't need to agree on everything....we don't

And if we have debates over stuff and can't change each others minds its cool because others may even benefit from whats discussed

Either way its all cool

That's fine, muir. I apologize for losing my temper at you before. I hope you will take the guidelines I suggested earlier into serious consideration to avoid future outbursts.

 

[Sloe Djinn]

I am sorry that my post threw this thread onto the course it's taken. @muir It wasn't at all my intention to put the axe to your character in writing what I wrote, but to provide some honest feedback about where I thought that there was a disconnect between myself, those who share my perception, and yourself in the context of the forums, and how I thought that could probably be fixed.

@niffer Yup, when I'm out from under the mod mantle, I may very well exhibit perceptions that make you or others wanna barf now and then. And I hear what you're saying about making it public. I did hem and haw over whether or not I should, and I finally decided on doing so because I figured that if I'm trying to communicate how I think some of the other forum members, self included, might be feeling, that the other forum members should be able to see what I'm saying too. By the way, if I didn't, I wouldn't have been aware of the weaknesses in my argument that you pointed out.

Muir, if my intention was to say "fuck you, leave" then I would have said just that. My intention was to say "this is how some of us feel when you do that, and why we feel that way". It is not how everyone feels. That much I said. Some of my thoughts are based on erroneous conceptions of your persona here, and I'm placed in check.

It was also hypocritical of me to post that in your thread, and you're right, you have altered some posting habits to keep the rules off your back. I'm only posting this here to stay consistent as my initial post was public, and my follow-up here should be too. I am not opposed to editing my material out (though what's done is done) or having it split somewhere else, but I'm not going to do it solely of my own accord, because what's there is what I said. I stand behind most of it, and I'll accept any consequences for it, but I'm not going to try to hide it to avoid criticism.

Right now there are, like, how many people trying to battle it out with you? I apologize for opening that can of worms. Making you want to leave or stop speaking is not my intention at all. I feel like airing that out was the right thing to do, but maybe I butchered it...

 

[54192&#cmy]

I don't have a problem admitting to when I get angry. I have normal emotional reactions. I got angry and I expressed it. I am asking whether or not muir has normal emotional reactions.

Has he ever been sad or cried about an experience? What about love, has he ever been in love with another human being? These are simple, straightforward questions that I, and I believe everyone, at this forum is entitled to ask and given the context of the discussion be insightful as to the nature of the problem we're having.

I think this issue can be resolved satisfactorily for everyone. I just want to come to a mutual understanding so what happened before doesn't happen again.

Why is this of any importance to you is my question. So to be a member of this forum you have to explain yourself your emotions your reactions. Basically give out your life history before you can respond to threads? So we have to answer to everyone? What the hell kind of forum do you want to be a part of?

 

[54192&#cmy]

That's fine, muir. I apologize for losing my temper at you before. I hope you will take the guidelines I suggested earlier into serious consideration to avoid future outbursts.

When the hell did you become the forum NAZI? For real. Dude you need to take a step back from the screen.....

 

[54192&#cmy]

It's like poop on a shoe it just goes from place "thread" to place "thread".

 

[muir]

That's fine, muir. I apologize for losing my temper at you before. I hope you will take the guidelines I suggested earlier into serious consideration to avoid future outbursts.

That's ok but i don't really see it was my fault that you lost your temper

I also think that in time i will be vindicated for the things i said in the syria thread the same way i have been vindicated over a number of things I've said here

At some point in the future...the truth is going to come out the same way it did over the non existent WMD's in iraq

 

[Matt3737]

From one of my earlier posts:

Withdrawal or detachment from the outer world is a characteristic feature of schizoid (alleged) pathology, but may appear either in "classic" or in "secret" form. When classic, it matches the typical description of the schizoid personality offered in the DSM-IV. It is however "just as often" a hidden internal state: that which meets the objective eye may not match the subjective, internal world of the patient. Klein therefore cautions that one should not miss identifying the schizoid patient because one cannot see the patient's withdrawal through the patient's defensive, compensatory interaction with external reality. He suggests that one need only ask the patient what his or her subjective experience is in order to detect the presence of the schizoid refusal of emotional intimacy.

 

[muir]

I am sorry that my post threw this thread onto the course it's taken. @muir It wasn't at all my intention to put the axe to your character in writing what I wrote, but to provide some honest feedback about where I thought that there was a disconnect between myself, those who share my perception, and yourself in the context of the forums, and how I thought that could probably be fixed.

Yeah that's cool i took it all on board

As i said i had realised before you posted that i need to change my approach. But at the same time i would urge you to understand that there are a number of agendas at play and that if people start acting indignant because someone else has suggested that their government is involved in a plot to create a false justification for war i think it would be a bad idea to silence people as a result of that

We know they did it not long ago with the lies over the WMD's in iraq and they are doing it again.

@niffer Yup, when I'm out from under the mod mantle, I may very well exhibit perceptions that make you or others wanna barf now and then. And I hear what you're saying about making it public. I did hem and haw over whether or not I should, and I finally decided on doing so because I figured that if I'm trying to communicate how I think some of the other forum members, self included, might be feeling, that the other forum members should be able to see what I'm saying too. By the way, if I didn't, I wouldn't have been aware of the weaknesses in my argument that you pointed out.

Muir, if my intention was to say "fuck you, leave" then I would have said just that. My intention was to say "this is how some of us feel when you do that, and why we feel that way". It is not how everyone feels. That much I said. Some of my thoughts are based on erroneous conceptions of your persona here, and I'm placed in check.

It was also hypocritical of me to post that in your thread, and you're right, you have altered some posting habits to keep the rules off your back. I'm only posting this here to stay consistent as my initial post was public, and my follow-up here should be too. I am not opposed to editing my material out (though what's done is done) or having it split somewhere else, but I'm not going to do it solely of my own accord, because what's there is what I said. I stand behind most of it, and I'll accept any consequences for it, but I'm not going to try to hide it to avoid criticism.

Right now there are, like, how many people trying to battle it out with you? I apologize for opening that can of worms. Making you want to leave or stop speaking is not my intention at all. I feel like airing that out was the right thing to do, but maybe I butchered it...

Don't worry about it...i'm a big boy

its all part of the learning process for ALL of us

i have put some pretty heavy stuff out there and there is some blowback. If i want to discuss heavy stuff i need to try and do it in a way that is not disruptive to the forum at large

But at the same time i feel i have something valuable to contribute to certain discussions. I really feel that some of the things i have to say should not be silenced by certain other people who have a very clear agenda

So as with everything its a balance. Communication is the key. Keep communicating and i'll respond. No hard feelings at this end

 

[54192&#cmy]

And Egypt Afghanistan Libya and all the other places our Government is killing on our behalf. Just as the citizens of Germany were forced to pay for their governments atrocity's we too shall have to pay a price for sitting on our hands for so long. Sadly it may be a nuclear reactor in Japan that will take care of all of us. That corporation is lying about how much water is getting into the ocean. If people will lie Governments will surely lie. A lie is to protect a self intrust. Money seems pretty intrusting these days. And so does power....​

 

[sassafras]

From one of my earlier posts:

Withdrawal or detachment from the outer world is a characteristic feature of schizoid (alleged) pathology, but may appear either in "classic" or in "secret" form. When classic, it matches the typical description of the schizoid personality offered in the DSM-IV. It is however "just as often" a hidden internal state: that which meets the objective eye may not match the subjective, internal world of the patient. Klein therefore cautions that one should not miss identifying the schizoid patient because one cannot see the patient's withdrawal through the patient's defensive, compensatory interaction with external reality. He suggests that one need only ask the patient what his or her subjective experience is in order to detect the presence of the schizoid refusal of emotional intimacy.

And this, my fellow forum members, is a shining example of head-up-ass-itus.

Seriously, dude. Where the fuck do you get the idea that it's ever appropriate to diagnose somebody, of which you don't know a thing about, by the way, with a psychiatric disorder?

I totally get that you and muir don't see eye to eye, but this as a form of retaliation is a whole new low.

Now I understand what you were trying to do earlier. I am so disappointed.

 

[54192&#cmy]

From one of my earlier posts:

Are you?​

 

[muir]

And this, my fellow forum members, is a shining example of head-up-ass-itus.

Seriously, dude. Where the fuck do you get the idea that it's ever appropriate to diagnose somebody, of which you don't know a thing about, by the way, with a psychiatric disorder?

I totally get that you and muir don't see eye to eye, but this as a form of retaliation is a whole new low. Wow.

This is classic though.....this is the perfect way to try and discredit someone....call them nuts!

this is perfect....its like he's working from the manipulation handbook

I have spoken elsewhere about how psychiatry is often used as an instrument of control so it is very fitting that the guy who is busy defending the government wants to try to use psychiatry to shut someone up who has suggested that their government might be lying to take them to war!

I mean it was only a few years back that they lied to take us into Iraq....we know now that they lied about there being any weapons of mass destruction

But apparently if you think your government might be capable of lying again you have schizoid personality disorder lol

 

[Stu]

start acting indignant because someone else has suggested that their government is involved in a plot to create a false justification for war i think it would be a bad idea to silence people as a result of that

We know they did it not long ago with the lies over the WMD's in iraq and they are doing it again.

No doubt, the "Stove Piping" that went on during the Cheney years propelled the US into a bankrupting war. The diff is that I see a manipulation that ended up as a huge mistake in which many of those who favored or helped in the manipulation ended up worse off.

I see the current situation as more of a forest fire with most of the western powers fairly impotent aside from channeling weapons in.

 

[Matt3737]

I'm sorry, did you all miss the first time I posited my opinion? I also made it very clear that it was MY opinion. I have yet to be dissuaded.

 

[muir]

No doubt, the "Stove Piping" that went on during the Cheney years propelled the US into a bankrupting war. The diff is that I see a manipulation that ended up as a huge mistake in which many of those who favored or helped in the manipulation ended up worse off.

I see the current situation as more of a forest fire with most of the western powers fairly impotent aside from channeling weapons in.

Cheney of course was chairman of the Halliburton Corporation which won a lot of the contracts in iraq so he really didn't lose out...he got very rich

Is he in jail right now or is he kicking back drinking 20 year old scotch and sparking up cuban cigars on his leather chair in sweet retirement land?

These guys want to destabilise the region. They bombed iraq back decades in its developemnt. before they bombed it they killed many people through sanctions. you know who sanctions hit the most? Babies...its always the babies that starve first

They even bombed a babies powdered milk factory and claimed they thought it was making missiles or some such crap. I'm telling you these guys are sick on a level that you and i can't even fathom

They are moving from country to country leaving a trail of chaos and you think this is not some strategy of theirs?

The OPEC countries formed OPEC to be able to present a united front in order to get a good price from the western oil consuming countries. The western countries formed their own platform to negotiate from in response to that

But the oil producing countries don't want to use the money to bail out corrupt bankers like we do they want to get a good price for their oil so they can develop their countries....you know schools, hospitals, roads all that stuff we take for granted

So what did those spiteful fuckers do? They bombed it all. and why did they do that?

Not because there were WMD's there weren't any and not becuase saddam was involved in 911, he wasn't. They did it because Iraq wanted OPEC to get a good price for their oil so that they could develop their country. They also wanted trade oil in euros instead of dollars so they could get a better exchange rate

Come on man this is all wrong...it doesn't have to be that way.

The US and Israel are intent on isolating Iran. Israel is the driving force behind that move but the US is losing the support of its own military. They're sick of it. that's why obama is saying he's not going to put 'boots on the ground' in syria....they'll probably just bomb its infrastructure with tomahawks

So you want to get a good price for your oil do you well take this boom....there goes your hospitals....boom there goes your bridges.....boom there goes your airfields etc

Did you know that in the first iraq war the US secretly sold slant oil drilling technology to kuweit so they could drill under iraq and steal their oil. It was going to make iraq broke because kuweit was then selling iraqi oil cheaply and undercutting the iraqis with their own oil! So iraq asked the USA if they would mind if they went into kuweit. the US shrugged and said ''its nothing to do with us'' but as soon as the iraqis rolled into kuweit the USA started declaring war on iraq

 

[muir]

I'm sorry, did you all miss the first time I posited my opinion? I also made it very clear that it was MY opinion. I have yet to be dissuaded.

I am not giving you insight into my emotional life. I don't trust you. It is because of people like you that i keep my guard up on this forum. I find you to be devious and unstable

 

[54192&#cmy]

Lets say it's not a false flag. How can we get into another war? We do not even have the guys to take care of the current wars going on. We are spending money as fast as they can create it out of thin air. Which will only make the situation worse. One wonders if they need to attack these people so they can get the oil. The banks are the ones printing the money so we can go kill with it. Or so it seems. Who knows But he ain't telling....​