Are we as a society being kept from discussing the big issues? | Page 7 | INFJ Forum

Are we as a society being kept from discussing the big issues?

I know muir. I know what you think of me too.

I've actually agreed with many things you've said, but not all of it. It's just that I feel you don't respect my opinion to disagree with the cabal and its range of influence.

I've actually spoken out about the government's manipulation regarding marijuana's legal status and how they lie to us in order to profit from the drug trade.

I just cannot agree with all of what you say.

I haven't actually heard you disagree with what i have said about the cabal...all i have heard is you attacking me

I respect your right to disagree with what i am saying about the cabal but i think your ad hominum attacks are completely non productive

dude...you and me STILL haven't discussed the issues. You have been fixated on me....going after me like a dog after a bone!

Let it go
 
powerful forces such as the oil companies, banks, investors, billionaires, high ranking military folks (cia,dia, nsa, dod, etc) and military contractors,politicians/buisness folks ....the usual suspects.
 
Lets say it's not a false flag. How can we get into another war? We do not even have the guys to take care of the current wars going on. We are spending money as fast as they can create it out of thin air. Which will only make the situation worse. One wonders if they need to attack these people so they can get the oil. The banks are the ones printing the money so we can go kill with it. Or so it seems. Who knows But he ain't telling....​

It definately looks like desperate behaviour

Where is this pressure to steam roll the middle east coming from?

Is it Oil? is it the collapse of the dollar? is it israel? is it something else?

or is it all the above?
 
powerful forces such as the oil companies, banks, investors, billionaires, high ranking military folks (cia,dia, nsa, dod, etc) and military contractors,politicians/buisness folks ....the usual suspects.

Ok who are behind the banks? Who are the global investors? Who owns the oil companies?
 
Well your post, if im not mistaken, was saying that you hadn't actually read much of my post but you thought i was by posting so much information trying to bamboozle you

How can you possibly be this obtuse?

I responded by saying that it was good information and that maybe you shoul read my post

If you read my post you will realise the relevance of the information and that it supports what i am saying

READING YOUR POSTS IS SUPPORTING THE CABAL

The invasion of Syria only further proves my point. Obviously, this is being done in order to provoke Iran into taking covert military action so the US will be justified in taking action. And once the US goes into Iran, it will create more terrorists which will justify stricter security measures and lead to SOPA and PRISM times 100. When we get to that point, everything we've said on this forum (which has been recorded and stored in the PRISM computer) will be used against us in order to justify tighter controls on individual freedoms.

Here's a video on how the education system is being corporatized:

[video=youtube;-7ADdBAT7h0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7ADdBAT7h0[/video]

The education system is a huge part of the cabal's plan to overtake the English language and manipulate it so that we all end up serving its interests. The human race needs to get off of its knees and stop its own enslavement before it's too late. The Nazi moonbase is involved only tentatively at this point, however it is safe to say that Alex Jones and David Icke are on the verge of being silenced because they are pushing back and the cabal doesn't like that. So they're using the education system to indoctrinate the young for example by cutting the budget for the arts and in 1963 JFK warned us: 'Education is nothing if not implemented to serve the interests of man's future... but whether or not we should fear or embrace a future in which secret societies are the norm is the question at hand'. Statements like this are what got him killed!

WAKE UP PEOPLE YOU ARE BEING LIED TO.

Anyone who doesn't prove that all of these things as well as the tangents I'm going to go on next is wrong.

I'm not trying to be mean here, I'm just saying that it's pretty much impossible to respond to this many half-truths, quotes, names, and far-out claims AS WELL as a long video... that doesn't mean that it's all true.
 
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How can you possibly be this obtuse?



READING POSTS IS SUPPORTING THE CABAL

The invasion of Syria only further proves my point. Obviously, this is being done in order to provoke Iran into taking covert military action so the US will be justified in taking action. And once the US goes into Iran, it will create more terrorists which will justify stricter security measures and lead to SOPA and PRISM times 100. When we get to that point, everything we've said on this forum (which has been recorded and stored in the PRISM computer) will be used against us in order to justify tighter controls on individual freedoms.

Here's a video that proves my point:

[video=youtube;-7ADdBAT7h0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7ADdBAT7h0[/video]

Nice video...did you try and find the longest chomsky one you could?

There is a link between everything i'm talking about in my post

If there is a bit you are not clear about eg what its relevance is just point it out and i'll put it into context

You do realise that you are trying to use ridicule here right? It then keeps me from discussing the actual issues

is there anything you'd like to say about the issues or do you just want to try and ridicule?
 
Nice video...did you try and find the longest chomsky one you could?

There is a link between everything i'm talking about in my post

If there is a bit you are not clear about eg what its relevance is just point it out and i'll put it into context

You do realise that you are trying to use ridicule here right? It then keeps me from discussing the actual issues

is there anything you'd like to say about the issues or do you just want to try and ridicule?

So basically, you didn't watch the video or read my post and you seem to think I'm trying to bamboozle you. But if you look very carefully and use critical judgment, you'll see that there actually is a link between everything in my post.

Here's a video that explains it:

[video=youtube;gHU2AVcK5l8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHU2AVcK5l8[/video]

Come back when you've watched both of these videos and then we can have a conversation.
 
So basically, you didn't watch the video or read my post and you seem to think I'm trying to bamboozle you. But if you look very carefully and use critical judgment, you'll see that there actually is a link between everything in my post.

Here's a video that explains it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHU2AVcK5l8

Come back when you've watched both of these videos and then we can have a conversation.

I did read your post and i am very aware of chomskys stance; that's why i know you are using ridicule

For example saying 'prism times 100' shows you are kidding around

The difference between our posts is that mine are grounded in fact and carefully thought out whilst yours are clumsy and designed to sound ridiculous

I'm going to say the same to you that i said to matt stop focussing on me and focuss on the issues because thats where the truth behind the events will be found
 
I don't know about any secret societies, but there are a lot of things that most people don't realize about the nature of ownership networks and huge corporations. It's not anything shrouded in the occult mysteries, but I think this TED talk should give people some food for thought. The control of many belongs in a surprisingly small few.

[video=youtube;NgbqXsA62Qs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgbqXsA62Qs[/video]
 
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Great video

It realy demonstrates just how concentrated power is

Concerning secret societies there are many of them....and they're just the ones we know about!

They're getting upto all sorts of strange stuff. You know....finish work, have a cup of tea.....put your hooded cloak on and then get down to the lodge to do a nice ritual with the gang....

[video=youtube;Gsun5J1jSSk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gsun5J1jSSk[/video]
 
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I think it goes afainst human nature to try to make people focus solely on your information without taking the messenger into account. You are fighting an uphill battle in the mud and rain if you keep that up.
 
I did read your post and i am very aware of chomskys stance; that's why i know you are using ridicule

For example saying 'prism times 100' shows you are kidding around

The difference between our posts is that mine are grounded in fact and carefully thought out whilst yours are clumsy and designed to sound ridiculous

I'm going to say the same to you that i said to matt stop focussing on me and focuss on the issues because thats where the truth behind the events will be found

I don't think you watched the video, muir... just being aware of Chomsky's 'stance' isn't the same thing as actually considering what I'm saying... and if you're not going to consider what I'm saying, you're not going to pick up on the connection between that and what I originally said. If you don't want to consider the facts and just want to attack me, then feel free but it's not going to produce any sort of valuable discussion.

Watch the video again and concentrate especially on the parts that connect to what I'm saying.
 
Great video

It realy demonstrates just how concentrated power is

Concerning secret societies there are many of them....and they're just the ones we know about!

They're getting upto all sorts of strange stuff. You know....finish work, have a cup of tea.....put your hooded cloak on and then get down to the lodge to do a nice ritual with the gang....

[video=youtube;Gsun5J1jSSk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gsun5J1jSSk[/video]

Thanks muir. Your video is interesting too, though I will take this opportunity to state that I am very hesitant to subscribe to the kind of theyism is you're suggesting in many of your threads. A lot of the information of that nature come across as very dodge-y at best. It doesn't have any real world context aside from a small few have interpreted it and are peddling as truths because the pieces can be arranged to look a certain way.

Now, I do not deny that there is a possibility that there could be a group of Lex Luthor types meeting clandestinely behind closed discussing Saturday Morning cartoon villain-esque plots for world domination over cigars and a glass of scotch. I also do not deny the possibility that maybe some of them think Halloween should be a monthly occurrence and that maybe ritual sex magic is a cool, edgy thing that people outside their fraternity shouldn't participate in because they're just not cool enough. I, however, have a very hard time believing these people would engage in occult magic because they actually believe it works. This whole cabal lasting generations upon generations dating back to Ancient Egypt or Atlantis (or whatever version of the theory you'd like to ascribe to) sounds a bit of a stretch to me. I also have a hard time justifying why on earth this alleged small group of people would go through all the trouble of trying to take over the world beyond the fact that they'd just want to live a comfortable, elite existence.

Now, I know you're going to jump on the idea of programming a nation with mass psychology. I also don't deny its possibility. We have the technology. We have the knowledge and there are billions upon billions of dollars being pumped into psychology and marketing research as we speak. The mind is a metaphor. When we change what we represent to ourselves, you can change our thinking and behaviour. Symbols and archetypes have a profound effect on our subconscious as well, even when we are not consciously aware of their meanings. I know, because I have witnessed that power first hand in myself and in others. I also am aware that you can change the minds of the masses by indoctrinating certain ideas as social controls that dictate how masses should or shouldn't respond akin to the concept of the panopticon. Foucault talked extensively about the new type of power structure emerging (by the way, did you ever watch the stand off between Foucault and a young Chomsky? Fascinating!) and with the increasing amount of surveillance, social and otherwise, in our daily lives it's getting increasingly difficult to ignore his ideas. We also have the Milgram and Asch conformity experiments that demonstrate frightening implications for our education system and the nature of social media.

Indeed, I think most people inherently understand the powerful influence of the mainstream media. Our current cultural diatribe proves it. The hot topic of the day is the representation of women, gays, and people of colour in media outlets. Most people seem to intuitively understand that what we consume on screen, on billboards and in music has an impact on not just the individual, but society as a whole. The call for us to take control of those images is growing louder and louder every day and in doing so, we're also acknowledging a society that control can be taken in these venues by re-framing meaning and presentation. Indeed, look at the way society's perceptions have change about LBTQ community in just the last decade alone. There has been a HUGE amount of social progress in an astonishingly short period of time. Whereas before it would take decades and even entire generations to change a social narrative, now it can occur in the matter of a few months with the right media coverage and exposure and by pin-pointing the right 'tipping point.'

So like I said, I get all that and I have a very healthy respect for the power of the complex, global networks and the roles of corporations and media and how they might benefit to go war-mongering for the sake of resources. What I don't get is the whole purpose of this so-called cabal that you keeep mentioning. Why are they doing the things they're doing? If they had all this technology and this occult knowledge, why hadn't they seized total control sooner? What are they waiting for? How do people even know what they believe or what they intend to do? How do you know that what you've learned through all your research is what they want you to believe? You completely lose me at this layer.
 
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There will be wars and rumors of wars. The world has little clue or evidence how many different groups of people there are representing their own versions of how they feel the world should be. I see them as children playing in the sand in a playground. Their parents and such watch them and care for them, then they take them home at night and they learn by listening and watching. They come up with their own ideas and friends. The really intelligent ones are even asked questions regarding the world arena by their own parents, and this information is then mulled over. Everyone seems to be looking for the same thing, just in different ways. Most of the children want little to nothing to do with the problems facing the world, because they cannot see how things could possibly get into such a mess......without greed. Do they wish to expend their own life fighting greed from so many different quarters? Add another to the 144,000 and watch it grow closer to its goal. Who is worthy? Why quibble about the rest?
 
I think it goes afainst human nature to try to make people focus solely on your information without taking the messenger into account. You are fighting an uphill battle in the mud and rain if you keep that up.

Can you explain to me why you think this is? I am personally not bothered by it. I don't know about you, but I constantly have to take in information without having any idea who is presenting it. Do you know any of the people writing the articles you read when you open up a newspaper in the morning? What about the statistician providing the reports on market conditions on the daily news? What about the movie critic giving their opinion on that movie you were curious to check out with your buds this weekend? Did you have to get to know Albert Einstein over a cup of coffee before you could accept his theories?

I'm sorry, I just find this such an absurd argument. Information is information. The onus is on you to verify it using your own logic, common sense and access to resources. Why on earth would you need to know anything about the person presenting the argument other than to adopt some kind of personal bias in your evaluation?
 
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Wow! The last 3 pages of this thread looked like muir was up in the proverbial stocks whilst getting cabbages thrown at him. Although Stu was debating...and ... I see efromm was trying to have a decent conversation too. Hi [MENTION=95]efromm[/MENTION]! :wave:

I have to say muir has been doing an excellent job of honestly trying to respond to all of the stuff thrown at him.

I admire your cool head in a heated situation....I'm not sure I would have been able to do so. I might have reported a couple of those posts made by others about/to you. Cheers [MENTION=1871]muir[/MENTION]! :tea:

While I feel it is important to raise awareness to those I care about - it is another to get swept away into the fear of the Cabals agendas.

It is more important to be aware of one's fear at what one sees going on the world....and it is no wonder we feel our fear. We...as the boomer generation grew up with more freedoms and a safer private world than those half our age. They are used to what they see and think it's normal. We know it's not. To us it's easier to see the dramatic changes that have occurred in our lifetimes and they're shocking to watch.

So the challenge becomes - how do you impart another perspective to a person who grew up eating strawberries grown in a greenhouse under artificial conditions? How does one convey the concept that the cardboard flavor they taste is nothing like strawberries grown in luscious soil with sunshine and rain?

I often find the ones who argue with me the most are the ones who need an answer to their fear.
 
Wow! The last 3 pages of this thread looked like muir was up in the proverbial stocks whilst getting cabbages thrown at him. Although Stu was debating...and ... I see efromm was trying to have a decent conversation too. Hi [MENTION=95]efromm[/MENTION]! :wave:

I have to say muir has been doing an excellent job of honestly trying to respond to all of the stuff thrown at him.

I admire your cool head in a heated situation....I'm not sure I would have been able to do so. I might have reported a couple of those posts made by others about/to you. Cheers [MENTION=1871]muir[/MENTION]! :tea:

While I feel it is important to raise awareness to those I care about - it is another to get swept away into the fear of the Cabals agendas.

It is more important to be aware of one's fear at what one sees going on the world....and it is no wonder we feel our fear. We...as the boomer generation grew up with more freedoms and a safer private world than those half our age. They are used to what they see and think it's normal. We know it's not. To us it's easier to see the dramatic changes that have occurred in our lifetimes and they're shocking to watch.

So the challenge becomes - how do you impart another perspective to a person who grew up eating strawberries grown in a greenhouse under artificial conditions? How does one convey the concept that the cardboard flavor they taste is nothing like strawberries grown in luscious soil with sunshine and rain?

I often find the ones who argue with me the most are the ones who need an answer to their fear.

HI K!!

Yes fear is a driving factor. Fear of death makes people do a lot of funny things. People even defy death for a time. Once your older you do see the folly's of youth. You have lived long enough t see those around you not make it. There is a lot of propaganda out there and it is done so for a reason there is no doubt about that. Everything in life is a learned experience. I fell that people need to forget what they have been taught and go with their hearts. A peaceful demonstration where their are too many of us and not enough of them will get the point across. We are the ones who have to live with and deal with this world every day. By being meek we shall inherit the Earth....
 
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Okay, I just finished reading a few of the objections to your posts, @muir, and there have been some valid points made about the way you present your arguments. I suppose it can be best summarized in the fact that you're dumping a lot of information on top of us all at once. Not only is such a load overwhelming, you frequently take for granted that people will not make the same connections that you've made over years and years of research. People need time to process what you're telling them. That, and the data you present comes from so many different sources and disciplines (psychology, sociology, politics, occult, religion, global economics) that when, mashed together, it's just a hodgepodge of seeming interconnected information, kinda. Depending what angle we're coming from, some of it appears true but some of the information is outside of our normal, every day understanding. We don't feel comfortable just accepting something as fact when we haven't had to time to research or ascertain the truth of it for ourselves.

Unfortunately, we don't have time to do that before you bombard us with more information.

What I would suggest you do is maybe ease your readers in one step at a time. Perhaps do it by discipline. For instance, what would we need to know about the nature of psychology to step onto the same page as you and the beliefs you hold? What would we need to understand about the occult? What would we need to consider about about global and economic history in the last 50 years in order to approach it from the same perspective? Give us a summary of Noam Chomsky's philosophy and what you think is important to understanding the view you're presenting.

Obviously, you're very passionate about what you're trying to tell us here, muir, but you're always going to have your points sidelines and derailed when you don't present the information in a coherent, logical way. I would actually encourage you to put together a guide. Maybe put together a blog. Every week, you can maybe post a Intro To Subject X and present only the most essential, coherent information and then let people discuss it among themselves and you can participate critically in the discussion instead of just posting more info on the subject. In fact, I think that would be very interesting! If we can take things apart, look at them, observe them, absorb them, I guarantee the message you're so desperately trying to communicate wouldn't fall on deaf ears and maybe some of us can seriously consider what you're putting forward here.

I think most people are just hung up on the fact that it's difficult to verify any of this information because it's posted in bits and pieces and fragments and it's all just coming from you. That and you're not always explaining yourself very clearly because you're presupposing that people have read all of your previous posts.

Perhaps it would be a good idea to try a different approach? What do you think?
 
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It definately looks like desperate behaviour

Where is this pressure to steam roll the middle east coming from?

Is it Oil? is it the collapse of the dollar? is it israel? is it something else?

or is it all the above?

Have you watched the youtube of Gaddafi telling them one of them was next. Now that they got Saadam? From what I can gather Gaddafi wanted to make gold the standard not American paper for a barrel of his oil. And I have heard that he had a lot of gold and oil in his country. Who gets control of those resources now that he is dead. I have seen vid of him driving around waving at his citizens from a sunroof. I would like our president to show us that kind of trust. We all know why he won't do it. I can't say if he was good or not. I did not suffer under him. No matter how good or bad him being gone has caused instability. Instability that someone wants to use I feel to do what serves them not the general population. Who from as far as I can tell just wants to live a decent life without threats of the USA or other terror organizations causing war on them.
 
[video=youtube;THlaMUq6MKU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THlaMUq6MKU[/video]

Here is one I am not sure how much is fact. Although it is interesting to listen to and it may be a reason for our wars....
 
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