A world without war?
- Thread starter Soulful
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War will exist as long as human beings are separate entities. It is not going to be a culture revolution that ends war, it will be technology. When we are all hard-wired into a global internet system and have de-facto telepathy. I am guessing war will exist for at least another 1000+ years.
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Incorrect, they have nations where there is very little capitalism, and yet the corruption of human nature always works its way through. Its not a cultural thing that drives war, its human nature and a need to survive and hoard resources. It is my belief that technology will set us free once it connects all humans together and we begin to think more like a species as opposed to separate entities competing for survival. Capitalism is a required evil that we must deal with because it offers the best chances for innovation of technology. At some point it will hit a critical mass and technology will overtake natural evolution and we will put the power of the gods into our own hands and rise above our nature. Right now we are for all intents and purposes only half "divine" if you want to label it that, we still have 1 foot in the animal kingdom, technology will plant both feet firmly into the human category and out of the animal.
Conflict is a given. Whether it escalates into war is not certain. As long as part of our human nature is conflict then there will always be the potential for war. What is the alternative?
I shudder to think of [MENTION=1451]Billy[/MENTION] 's world. Technology will not "save us" and I translate his answer as turning people into the Borg. LOL I wouldn't want to be hardwired into everything. Individuality has it's drawbacks. Biology and natural selection has made man a Social Creature and as such, conflict is part of the equation.
I shudder to think of [MENTION=1451]Billy[/MENTION] 's world. Technology will not "save us" and I translate his answer as turning people into the Borg. LOL I wouldn't want to be hardwired into everything. Individuality has it's drawbacks. Biology and natural selection has made man a Social Creature and as such, conflict is part of the equation.
I don't think its so scary, its certainly no more scary than the notion that we are all just portions of god inside different bodies. And who is to say that once we are all hardwired we lose our individuality? I don't think this to be the case. You just have more data to go on. And technology will and has saved us... it is lack of connection and technology that damns us. Modern technology took us out of the forests, took us out of the stone age, took us out of the brutal barbaric lives our ancestors lived. It was technology that reduced the need for slavery, technology that freed women from the constraints of being housewives. Technology has been at the forefront of every great advancement of human civilization since we began.
Firstly, I think the word "incorrect" doesn't have any place in this discussion sinse it's a hypothetical discussion. There is therefore no "correct" or "incorrect". Also, I haven't said there will be no war, I said: I want to believe there will be no war.
Then there is this word: "nation". I think "nation" is what inflames war, the idea of a unit unlike other units. Nation allienates and separates cultures. "Nation" was created during the late 1900 century, and the strive to create these units were (according to Uppsala university) the reason for the first world war (I know this is only one of many theories). And what use does "nation" have? I believe it's about belonging, and economic gain, trade.
Yes, there were wars before capitalism, before consumerism, even before mercantilism and barter. But my hope is that we will learn from history and understand that war comes from thirst for power and wealth. I hope we will go back to the mercantilism system, where we trade with surplus, rather than produce to trade. I also hope we can leave this insane idea about "nation". I feel it brings nothing than suspicion for other cultures.
Like Stormy1 says, there will always be conflict, but I hope for a world without violence.
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We agree then that the notion of "nations" is a flawed idea. And its based on fundamental human nature. The only thing that overcomes human nature in every sense of history has been technology. Technological advances change the way we live and the way we understand ourselves and the world. One day technology will unite all humans, and nations, war, greed and suffering will become obsolete just as slavery, ignorance, religion and other outdated methods of cultural rot have died away in the face of advances. The trick is going to be surviving our technological adolescence, and hoping our human nature doesn't take it to the point of mass extinction. I believe we will... we didnt end ourselves during the cold war which is a beautiful thing and that was some tense shit... I think as we advance we get closer and closer. Do you think the US and China will ever war with one and other? I dont believe it so, why? Not because we are all better people now, but because technology has enabled us to entangle our needs together on a global scale, the fighting will be veiled or used through puppet nations, but even those nations will grow one day, what then when they're all advanced enough to see through such things? Fighting will become too expensive and too obsolete to consider.
So you do agree war will end eventually? Also, could you define your idea of technology in this case?
Yes I do think war will one day become an obsolete way of carrying on with life. In the world I am envisioning technology will outpace evolution and connect all human beings mentally, of course I cannot give any specifics I am just theorizing based on current technology and how technology evolves. But they can broadcast a video signal into the human brain now, they decoded the human genome, its just a matter of time until we can broadcast data directly into each others minds via some Civilization 1 type of global network. How hard do you think it will be to kill another human being in a war you didn't ask to be a part of when you can talk directly to one and other? When you can see his children through his eyes? See his memories of his mother kissing him before school? The point of war is to crush people who are infringing upon your resources, we do this by de-humanizing the enemy. Well what if that's no longer a possibility? What if instead of us being separate from one and other as we are now, we all reside within each other? War will become far more distasteful. Because there will be a blurring of the lines of self and us. Self will become less important and "us" will become very important, especially as our earthly resources dwindle.. we will need to begin to colonize additional planets to continue our growth. And survival, a basic human need will be the one thing we all share in common, so it will make more sense to all humans to forget nations, forget lines drawn in the sand and work for the common goal of human survival by spreading our eggs into multiple cosmic baskets.
This cannot be achieved by culture. Culture changes due to technology, culture will evolve and adapt to accept the new reality.
T
The Jester
When the capitalist system comes to an end?
You seem to be quite the product of your society.
I don't believe that it has much to do with the structure of societies, but more with circumstances and human nature.
Also, what's with the hate against capitalism in Europe?
I'm a European myself, and jesus, everyone seems to rage about the evils of it.
Now that we've mentioned that we should learn from history, we could also remind ourselves of the fact that no system is perfect.
And what society do you believe I am a product of?
And in what way am I projecting hate towards capitalism? Of course there is no perfect system, but it's clear capitalism doesn't work, and it's well known it won't work for ever. The whole system is based on the fact that it will eventually collapse, to find an example you can open any newspaper to learn that Europe is in massive trouble because of the present economy. We can also learn from history that this is a very new system, if it's wavering after roughly hundred years, it's time to move forward. Why stay with a system that doesn't work?
In my analysis I feel there is a clear connection between want of power and wealth and war. That is why I state the capitalist system has to change and give way for simple trade or mercantilism.
Shockingly enough, the amount of wars being fought and their death-tolls are dropping steadily, so I think eventually we'll see a world without any official government-mandated warfare, although, with the increasing power of non-state players like terrorists and corporations, I think there'll still be armed conflict.
I used to think this too, but have you ever been to a third world country? A lot of people have nothing, and they're as happy as can be. Poverty builds community and forces people to innovate and be creative about how they meet their needs... sure, the idea of a rich western life is appealing to them in the same way a lot of us dream about giving up the ratrace to live in a cabin in Alaska, but even though there's a lot of desperation for some people, a lot of people are actually quite content. It's only the first world countries who seem to think that 'more stuff' is the secret to happiness...
As for the question of war-- I really have no idea. Maybe if it stopped being profitable, or people stopped caring so much about money, then people would stop fighting.
I once had professor that said future "Wars will be fought between McDonalds and Walmart." Personally, I'm team Google and I'd prefer they win the Great Corporate War of 2053. :lol:
I can understand the concept of corporations replacing governments and fighting for resources, but I don't see it being plausible since they're already global, and are the primary extractors of resources and make the products we consume. Unless you had CEO Le Fleur of Global French Corporation X vs. CEO Vincent Chase of Global American Corporation Y - but then it would just be like nations fighting! Instead of kings or presidents, we have CEOs. But why would Le Fleur nuke San Francisco when he opened his US HQ there only a few years ago? And Chase just bought a house in Paris! Would he invade his own city house?
No, rich people carve up the world among themselves and use governments to fight wars to make profit. When the rich are done playing their game [of thrones :lol:], the wars will end. And when will their game end? When they have access to all the precious resources lying around those 3rd world countries that hate us for killing their people and stealing their property. The wars end when the West wins!
[video=youtube_share;XpS4fCF4tqo]http://youtu.be/XpS4fCF4tqo[/video]
Edit to expand on my post: Okay, well wars on Earth will end, but you KNOW when corporations become GALACTIC - oh man, McDonalds Martian Empire™ vs Sony United Moon Colonies® - I hope the Saab-brand Stellar Battle Cruisers© can hold out. And who the hell are those damn aliens from Andromeda? Get them out of here! :lol:
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The more integrated our economies become, the less and less sensible wars will be, I think.
Can you imagine two countries within the Eurozone bombing one another?
Maybe there will be an African currency developed by the African Union, same with South America, etc. It doesn't make sense to fight with someone you rely on. I don't know how things will unfold, but it's a thought.
Although, the greater the power gap between nations, the worse the probable outcomes.
And maybe the more transparent our governments become (I think that's inevitable, to some degree), the more power we will have in who we elect to government and how our communities are lead.
Can you imagine two countries within the Eurozone bombing one another?
Maybe there will be an African currency developed by the African Union, same with South America, etc. It doesn't make sense to fight with someone you rely on. I don't know how things will unfold, but it's a thought.
Although, the greater the power gap between nations, the worse the probable outcomes.
And maybe the more transparent our governments become (I think that's inevitable, to some degree), the more power we will have in who we elect to government and how our communities are lead.
I want so badly to vote yes but I just can't bring myself to really and truly believe it. I guess I am just too jaded and cynical to think that humanity as a whole will really ever change. I know it is possible. And because of that, another part of me wants to believe it is only a matter of time before things that are possible actually happen. Maybe change will happen someday and war will be drastically reduced...but for how long? If there is one thing I've noticed about history, it's that it repeats itself...
Perhaps one day there will be no war. But life itself seems so circular in nature, I feel it would very likely swing back to the same actions and impulses again given enough time. Who knows how long. It seems life on Earth is in a constant state of learning, and then re-learning.
Perhaps one day there will be no war. But life itself seems so circular in nature, I feel it would very likely swing back to the same actions and impulses again given enough time. Who knows how long. It seems life on Earth is in a constant state of learning, and then re-learning.