A question about INFJ comm cutoff

[No sense]

I need a little bit of advice or something like that.
Yea, I know its long.. Didn't intend it to be.. Ah well

I've come across another (I have a knack for it ) INFJ girl (I'm a dude) on a certain website and...

Some background first..

The 2 months worth of mails we exchanged were pretty good. We got to know each other pretty well for what I blame my approach which was "my little experiment".
Basically, I opened up straight away when I found out she was an INFJ and pretty intelligent because I wanted to see what will come out of it.

Whatever she asked, I told her and shared some of my inner thought processes all the time. I wanted to see how she (and myself) would react to this kind of sharing of intimacy. Now that I think of it, I didn't share that much even with my ex girlfriends (tells something about those relationships, huh). But seriously, she said that she never did that kind of thing either.
She acted the same way and we found each other interesting.. exchanged 1 mail daily on average.

We declared our intentions quite early and agreed that we'll go with the flow (meaning that only friendship is quite possible, although a romantic relationship is not excluded).

I suggested we go grab some coffee and although she admitted she would feel weird, because she never shared that much about herself with a stranger over the internet, she agreed.

The coffee was terrible.
I couldn't recognize her at all. She talked a bit for the first couple of minutes and then just shut down. She gave yes/no responses, couldn't explain her behavior (I asked) and was surprised by my own behavior.. I flipped the switch (subconsciously) on my E for some reason. Probably because I kinda didn't want it to suck so much. I tried to drag her our of her shell, but with no success.

Right after I got home I wrote her an email basically asking her what the hell was that (in a very gentle way). She said that she didn't know, that she couldn't recognize herself and that the more she thinks of it the more of her own demons come to haunt her.
We exchanged a couple more emails on that topic and then she said she found a job and she wont be able to write back for a week or so and that she will use that time to think about it all (herself mainly). She made a point of telling me that she doesn't want to break contact and that I should be honest if I wanted to (I don't) because she said she couldn't read me at all when we met.

It's been 5 days or so into that week now.
To be honest, I don't know what to think.
From my perspective it could be either that she liked me very much or that she is giving me time to cool off so she can subtly tell me that she didn't like me. Both make sense.

What do you guys think? Good or bad?
If you need more details feel free to ask.


Also, since it is kinda related.. What do you think about sharing intimate knowledge with a potential girlfriend/boyfriend since the beginning?

How intimate would you go if you knew you wouldn't get hurt and the other person seemed worthy of the effort?

 

[Norton]

There's an old saying that people do business with people. That's why the airline industry never has to worry about the internet supplanting business travel. Nothing can substitute for face to face meetings. The same is true for relationships.

The supposed anonymity of the web confers a false sense of trust and security between strangers. You should never start out trusting someone. Rather, you should end up trusting someone.

 

[No sense]

The supposed anonymity of the web confers a false sense of trust and security between strangers. You should never start out trusting someone. Rather, you should end up trusting someone.

I'm starting to think that there should really be a balance. At least between my behavior and this extreme I tried with her.

I usually don't share much with anyone until they have my complete trust. Here I wanted to see how the completely opposite approach works.

 

[surreality]

I'm starting to think that there should really be a balance. At least between my behavior and this extreme I tried with her.

I usually don't share much with anyone until they have my complete trust. Here I wanted to see how the completely opposite approach works.

If you want to look at it, as you started out thinking about it, as an experiment, take the girl's reaction as a sign that your experiment failed.

As Norton said already,

The supposed anonymity of the web confers a false sense of trust and security between strangers. You should never start out trusting someone. Rather, you should end up trusting someone.

You are putting the cart before the horse. Trust is something you work up to. The girl realized this when she saw you face to face or maybe she didn't but something instinctively spoke to her and that's why she clammed up.

...
Also, since it is kinda related.. What do you think about sharing intimate knowledge with a potential girlfriend/boyfriend since the beginning?

Not a good idea.

 

[No sense]

If you want to look at it, as you started out thinking about it, as an experiment, take the girl's reaction as a sign that your experiment failed.

Did you say..
...failure?
I don't do... failures
Failure is such a strong word..
The results were more or less expected.

It was obvious to me from the start that a balance between the 2 approaches is necessary, but nothing can replace first hand experience.

You might say I wanted to find out with which level of sharing I was comfortable with. (I'm fairly young..)
In that aspect my experiment was a complete success.

 

[surreality]

Did you say..
...failure?
I don't do... failures
Failure is such a strong word..
The results were more or less expected.

It was obvious to me from the start that a balance between the 2 approaches is necessary, but nothing can replace first hand experience.

You might say I wanted to find out with which level of sharing I was comfortable with. (I'm fairly young..)
In that aspect my experiment was a complete success.

ok yeah wrong choice of word

Saying it was a failure isn't accurate. You're right.

And yeah, nothing can replace first hand experience. So, you found out what you're comfortable with....are you still comfortable with the level of sharing you did?

From what you wrote it would seem like the girl was not. And part of your experiment, I thought was to see if being a lot more open and trusting right off the bat, before you even know someone, would help in establishing a possible relationship, so in that respect, I would say the outcome points toward "No."

 

[No sense]

So, you found out what you're comfortable with....are you still comfortable with the level of sharing you did?

From what you wrote it would seem like the girl was not. And part of your experiment, I thought was to see if being a lot more open and trusting right off the bat, before you even know someone, would help in establishing a possible relationship, so in that respect, I would say the outcome points toward "No."

Yes, I am comfortable with the level of sharing I did with her.
But I probably wouldn't do it again if I had the choice with anyone except someone who appreciates it as much as I do.. Maybe not even with them.
I'll have to think about that.

Well, she maybe wasn't comfortable at that time, but I don't really know if it had a positive or negative effect. Time will tell I guess.

She did "check in" yesterday. My guess is that if she wanted to break contact she could have and would have done it by now.

 

[Billy]

I need a little bit of advice or something like that.
Yea, I know its long.. Didn't intend it to be.. Ah well

I've come across another (I have a knack for it ) INFJ girl (I'm a dude) on a certain website and...

Some background first..

The 2 months worth of mails we exchanged were pretty good. We got to know each other pretty well for what I blame my approach which was "my little experiment".
Basically, I opened up straight away when I found out she was an INFJ and pretty intelligent because I wanted to see what will come out of it.

Whatever she asked, I told her and shared some of my inner thought processes all the time. I wanted to see how she (and myself) would react to this kind of sharing of intimacy. Now that I think of it, I didn't share that much even with my ex girlfriends (tells something about those relationships, huh). But seriously, she said that she never did that kind of thing either.
She acted the same way and we found each other interesting.. exchanged 1 mail daily on average.

We declared our intentions quite early and agreed that we'll go with the flow (meaning that only friendship is quite possible, although a romantic relationship is not excluded).

I suggested we go grab some coffee and although she admitted she would feel weird, because she never shared that much about herself with a stranger over the internet, she agreed.

The coffee was terrible.
I couldn't recognize her at all. She talked a bit for the first couple of minutes and then just shut down. She gave yes/no responses, couldn't explain her behavior (I asked) and was surprised by my own behavior.. I flipped the switch (subconsciously) on my E for some reason. Probably because I kinda didn't want it to suck so much. I tried to drag her our of her shell, but with no success.

Right after I got home I wrote her an email basically asking her what the hell was that (in a very gentle way). She said that she didn't know, that she couldn't recognize herself and that the more she thinks of it the more of her own demons come to haunt her.
We exchanged a couple more emails on that topic and then she said she found a job and she wont be able to write back for a week or so and that she will use that time to think about it all (herself mainly). She made a point of telling me that she doesn't want to break contact and that I should be honest if I wanted to (I don't) because she said she couldn't read me at all when we met.

It's been 5 days or so into that week now.
To be honest, I don't know what to think.
From my perspective it could be either that she liked me very much or that she is giving me time to cool off so she can subtly tell me that she didn't like me. Both make sense.

What do you guys think? Good or bad?
If you need more details feel free to ask.


Also, since it is kinda related.. What do you think about sharing intimate knowledge with a potential girlfriend/boyfriend since the beginning?

How intimate would you go if you knew you wouldn't get hurt and the other person seemed worthy of the effort?

Move on, shes probably not interested. As for what I share, I keep my serious issues on the back burner unless she gives me an opporitunity to bring it up without making it something too negative.

On a 1st date I usually hold back all the negative stuff about me and show my best qualities and show that I am smart, sensitive, ambitious and hard working, once they are in line with that I can start to intro my faults.

 

[VH]

Also, since it is kinda related.. What do you think about sharing intimate knowledge with a potential girlfriend/boyfriend since the beginning?

How intimate would you go if you knew you wouldn't get hurt and the other person seemed worthy of the effort?

I am always exactly who I am with everyone that I care about. If they can't accept me for that, then they are not capable of meeting my needs. However, there is a time and a place for everything, and certain subjects are not topics I will broach needlessly. However, if they are broached, I will be very honest and sincere, though I will tailor my answers in the interest of politeness and what seems to be the etiquette expectations of the person I am talking to. For example, if a woman I am on a first date with brings up the subject of penises, I'll keep the conversation clinical but not change the subject as if I'm offended. I'm not going to talk about my penis unless she brings up the subject of mine - at which point I'll be very casually honest and upfront. I have nothing to hide, but no need to offend anyone either.

I think the only reason to have non-disclosure is to make sure the other person is comfortable. If they are comfortable talking about something, there is no reason not to talk about it. It's a balancing act of self acceptance, sincerity, and compassion for others.

 

[Eniko]

Move on, shes probably not interested. As for what I share, I keep my serious issues on the back burner unless she gives me an opporitunity to bring it up without making it something too negative.

On a 1st date I usually hold back all the negative stuff about me and show my best qualities and show that I am smart, sensitive, ambitious and hard working, once they are in line with that I can start to intro my faults.

Oh come on, how can you know that? Sharing so many intimate things with someone on the net creates a lot of expectations when you finally do meet face-to-face. So unless she's someone who's learned to cope with the stress of that particular context it's quite possible for her to be such a bundle of nerves she completely shuts down.

Wouldn't be the first time that stress/expectations/anxiety/nerves caused an INFJ to withdraw into their private little world after all.

 

[JayJay]

Here's what I have found with the internet, it is very easy to reveal things about yourself because there is a very little risk. You can choose to never meet this person, never respond to them anytime, etc. They do not know you well enough to know if you are telling the truth, they don't know what you look like, etc. It's only when you realize that expelling your truths and experiences (maybe dirty laundry) becoming intimate and understanding, accepting, that could possibly bond you with another creating the intimate environment that causes you two to feel compelled to meet one another.

Now meeting an individual makes it so real, flesh and blood in front of us. In retrospect the realness of all that airing of dirty laundry or mistaks or feelings and actions all our life, may make someone who's infj pull within and feel "naked". This could be very overwhelming for them.

It could then make everything feel like a giant rollercoaster of emotion and maybe something that should have never been taken that far to begin with.

I have had some experience in this. My advice would be even if you feel so "connected", maybe pick up the phone sooner or meet in person before getting swept up so much in "fantasy" of revealing everything about ourselves too soon. I know it sounds silly but I really think that not being physically in touch (phone or in-person) we tend to fantasize about who this person could be to us (soul mate) that too much sharing too fast can really ruin what could be a great thing.

 

[Eniko]

I have had some experience in this. My advice would be even if you feel so "connected", maybe pick up the phone sooner or meet in person before getting swept up so much in "fantasy" of revealing everything about ourselves too soon. I know it sounds silly but I really think that not being physically in touch (phone or in-person) we tend to fantasize about who this person could be to us (soul mate) that too much sharing too fast can really ruin what could be a great thing.

This is actually really great advice. Video/voice chat is also a great tool to use to make things "more real".

 

[slant]

I can relate to the internet/real life disconnect. I had an INTP who I'll mention again and again that I hit it off great with in person (once) and then we began talking on Myspace a shitload. Well, it turns out that while this person could be quite communicative online they weren't in person. This was a bit heartbreaking because the guy was really awesome.

I think that the thing about internet dating is for me I'd really like to meet in person as soon as possible. It's hard to understand a person online, and I know from experience that I'm not as concentrated and focused in real life like I am online. I think that if you're going to pursue a relationship with this person, you need to wipe clean the slate and get to know the person all over again- in real life. What you knew didn't match up. Try to get to know her a bit better. If things don't work out on the next couple of dates, then you know to move on.

That's how dating is, you know? Some people are good matches, some people aren't. It's really hard to size up a person with one date, or even three I'd think would be hard. What I work on during dates is trying to give people a fun time but get to know the core things about them, what they expect from a relationship, their religion, their short term and long term goals. All part of getting to know someone I suppose.

Although, I'll tell you this. I disagree about the thought of not sharing intimate knowledge straight up. I'm a direct person, and because of who I am, I want the person to know who I AM and what I've done, where I've been, to a certain degree. If they can't handle the upfront of my personality then that's a problem, and it will persist to be a problem on through the relationship. I don't think you should play yourself down or act any different on a date than you would on everyday casual things. The only justification for doing so is if you're an arsehole and are trying to disguise it.

 

[No sense]

Move on, shes probably not interested.

This is most probably incorrect.
We talked a little bit more and she said that she'd like to meet up again. Some more coffee on Thursday.
Speaks enough for itself I think.

Now meeting an individual makes it so real, flesh and blood in front of us. In retrospect the realness of all that airing of dirty laundry or mistaks or feelings and actions all our life, may make someone who's infj pull within and feel "naked". This could be very overwhelming for them.
It could then make everything feel like a giant rollercoaster of emotion and maybe something that should have never been taken that far to begin with.

I have had some experience in this......

I think that's exactly what happened.

And I'll definitely take your advice on that in my future online endeavours..
I've been thinking about how it would have turned out if we took it slower and in person.
Probably better than now.

I think that if you're going to pursue a relationship with this person, you need to wipe clean the slate and get to know the person all over again- in real life. What you knew didn't match up. Try to get to know her a bit better. If things don't work out on the next couple of dates, then you know to move on.

Starting anew does make sense.
It's not like we have a choice, though. At least in the next couple of meet ups.

I am going to pursue some kind of relationship, that's for sure, but I don't know if it's going to be a romantic one.
I don't really agree with you guys when you say it's a "date". At least from my perspective (I think I'd be fine with being only friends with her) and I think she agrees, although we didn't talk about this. It's something I picked up.
We were talking about my difficulty with asking her out for the second round of coffee. She asked if I was like this with other people... do I do these long preludes all the time.
I said that I'm usually not all that slow and weird.
But I was just being careful because I didn't know how she'd react (I didn't tell her that).
Anyway, she seemed like she didn't really like my response. When I asked if it would've been better if I was always this weird, she didn't say anything. This seems important to me because she made it crystal clear before that she has, supposedly, had some bad experiences with online dating.. One dude got the wrong idea after 3 "dates" and he thought that they should be together. She didn't agree.

 

[Forest Dweller]

Something like this has happened to me before. Y'all communicate on a deep level, but forget to put the dating face on to go forward. Real-life dating is about using the wave of physical attraction to gloss over actually taking a look at the naked person warts and all (and I'm speaking about metaphorical nakedness and warts for the most part). It's valuable, because real-life relationships, even marriages, need it as well.

Do some very light, very fun things. Yeah, do coffee, but then do some mindless activity on the next round.

 

[No sense]

Do some very light, very fun things. Yeah, do coffee, but then do some mindless activity on the next round.

As a matter of fact, I was going to suggest that we go see a movie if she seemed a bit uncomfortable today. Are movies mindless enough? Depends on the movie I guess.

I don't see anything wrong with trying to avoid another "disaster".
I mean, she likes movies, I like movies.. We both like movies.. We both haven't been to the movies lately.. Sounds like a good plan B to me.
A good plan A, even, but not today. Most probably.

 

[Nela]

Wouldn't be the first time that stress/expectations/anxiety/nerves caused an INFJ to withdraw into their private little world after all.

Exactly.

I would probably behave the exact same way. Maybe she's just a little insecure, or shy? If she's an infj, she probably needs some time to feel at ease in this 'new situation', so it's not abnormal for her to feel very self-conscious. The situation is very overwhelming, it's frightening, you really don't want to screw things up.. So you keep to yourself. Especially if you think that there's something to lose. It's totally irrational, but still.

As a matter of fact, I was going to suggest that we go see a movie if she seemed a bit uncomfortable today. Are movies mindless enough? Depends on the movie I guess.

I don't see anything wrong with trying to avoid another "disaster".
I mean, she likes movies, I like movies.. We both like movies.. We both haven't been to the movies lately.. Sounds like a good plan B to me.
A good plan A, even, but not today. Most probably.

Sounds like a good plan. Being forced to talk endlessly when you're really nervous or don't feel comfortable can cause an infj to 'shut down' like nothing else, especially if she's the shy kind.

 

[Eniko]

Yeah, what Nela said. Movie good.

 

[Wyst]

Move on, shes probably not interested. As for what I share, I keep my serious issues on the back burner unless she gives me an opporitunity to bring it up without making it something too negative.

This is most probably incorrect.
We talked a little bit more and she said that she'd like to meet up again. Some more coffee on Thursday.
Speaks enough for itself I think.

I agree with Billy. Most of the INFJs I talk to would probably agree with me that, in general, INFJs go with their first impression most of the time.

Every time I have forced a the start of a relationship I ALWAYS regret moving forward and think, "I should have listened to myself. I knew something about this just wasn't right". Then I end things. It's fast and messy because it's very uncomfortable to me.

Granted, it sounds harsh (and it is harsh) but that's what happens when INFJs go against Ni.

My prediction is that if you keep pushing, you'll get the INFJ door slam.

 

[Faye]

Right after I got home I wrote her an email basically asking her what the hell was that (in a very gentle way). She said that she didn't know, that she couldn't recognize herself and that the more she thinks of it the more of her own demons come to haunt her.
We exchanged a couple more emails on that topic and then she said she found a job and she wont be able to write back for a week or so and that she will use that time to think about it all (herself mainly). She made a point of telling me that she doesn't want to break contact and that I should be honest if I wanted to (I don't) because she said she couldn't read me at all when we met.

It's been 5 days or so into that week now.
To be honest, I don't know what to think.
From my perspective it could be either that she liked me very much or that she is giving me time to cool off so she can subtly tell me that she didn't like me. Both make sense.

What do you guys think? Good or bad?
If you need more details feel free to ask.


Also, since it is kinda related.. What do you think about sharing intimate knowledge with a potential girlfriend/boyfriend since the beginning?

How intimate would you go if you knew you wouldn't get hurt and the other person seemed worthy of the effort?

You can't make assumptions about the reasons for her behavior as many here have suggested. Her shutting down was probably because she either didn't know how to interpret the situation and act (was it a date? hanging out with a friend? did you two actually have something to talk about?) or, more likely, because she was afraid and/or down on herself. I think the latter because she said her "demons were coming back to haunt her" or something to that affect. My point is that this girl is probably much more self-absorbed than people are giving her credit for.

When you say you couldn't recognize her, do you mean that she didn't talk how she does online or that she looked different than she did on online pictures? Did she see realistic pictures of you before the two of you met?

I'm asking because if the situation was possibly a date (even if it was only the first 15 min coffee date), she would have been acutely aware of that possibility (so much for go with the flow...), and she could have been dissatisfied with your looks or, more likely, subconscious about her own.

By making leaving the door open for a relationship, you are opening several new cans of worms.

As for sharing intimate knowledge, I guess that would depend. I don't know what to think about that really. I don't know what counts as "intimate knowledge".