I'm confused. In your OP, I gathered that you were referring to perspective reality, but now you are questioning something else? Meta-reality? Or perhaps I just misunderstood you from the get-go? Can you please clarify?
2 types of reality?
- Thread starter Trifoilum
- Start date
I'm confused. In your OP, I gathered that you were referring to perspective reality, but now you are questioning something else? Meta-reality? Or perhaps I just misunderstood you from the get-go? Can you please clarify?
I'm referring to perspective reality, yes, but...I dunno, at this point I don't even know what I'm talking about. Anyone can interject me?
I feel like what I'm discussing is metareality, branching out to its two type of perspective reality and...reality reality (eloquent, I am.)
And my post you quoted expounded a bit to the former; namely, its existence.
FORGET THIS AAAAAH
Provided he makes and wins an argument about Buddhism with those who live there, any wondering monk can remain in a Zen temple. If he is defeated, he has to move on.
In a temple in the northern part of Japan two brother monks were dwelling together. The elder one was learned, but the younger one was stupid and had but one eye.
A wandering monk came and asked for lodging, properly challenging them to a debate about the sublime teachings. The elder brother, tired that day from much studying, told the younger one to take his place. "Go and request the dialogue in silence," he cautioned.
So the young monk and the stranger went to the shrine and sat down.
Shortly afterwards the traveler rose and went in to the elder brother and said: "Your young brother is a wonderful fellow. He defeated me."
"Relate the dialogue to me," said the elder one.
"Well," explained the traveler, "first I held up one finger, representing Buddha, the enlightened one. So he held up two fingers, signifying Buddha and his teaching. I held up three fingers, representing Buddha, his teaching, and his followers, living the harmonious life. Then he shook his clenched fist in my face, indicating that all three come from one realization. Thus he won and so I have no right to remain here." With this, the traveler left.
"Where is that fellow?" asked the younger one, running in to his elder brother.
"I understand you won the debate."
"Won nothing. I'm going to beat him up."
"Tell me the subject of the debate," asked the elder one.
"Why, the minute he saw me he held up one finger, insulting me by insinuating that I have only one eye. Since he was a stranger I thought I would be polite to him, so I held up two fingers, congratulating him that he has two eyes. Then the impolite wretch held up three fingers, suggesting that between us we only have three eyes. So I got mad and started to punch him, but he ran out and that ended it!"
In a temple in the northern part of Japan two brother monks were dwelling together. The elder one was learned, but the younger one was stupid and had but one eye.
A wandering monk came and asked for lodging, properly challenging them to a debate about the sublime teachings. The elder brother, tired that day from much studying, told the younger one to take his place. "Go and request the dialogue in silence," he cautioned.
So the young monk and the stranger went to the shrine and sat down.
Shortly afterwards the traveler rose and went in to the elder brother and said: "Your young brother is a wonderful fellow. He defeated me."
"Relate the dialogue to me," said the elder one.
"Well," explained the traveler, "first I held up one finger, representing Buddha, the enlightened one. So he held up two fingers, signifying Buddha and his teaching. I held up three fingers, representing Buddha, his teaching, and his followers, living the harmonious life. Then he shook his clenched fist in my face, indicating that all three come from one realization. Thus he won and so I have no right to remain here." With this, the traveler left.
"Where is that fellow?" asked the younger one, running in to his elder brother.
"I understand you won the debate."
"Won nothing. I'm going to beat him up."
"Tell me the subject of the debate," asked the elder one.
"Why, the minute he saw me he held up one finger, insulting me by insinuating that I have only one eye. Since he was a stranger I thought I would be polite to him, so I held up two fingers, congratulating him that he has two eyes. Then the impolite wretch held up three fingers, suggesting that between us we only have three eyes. So I got mad and started to punch him, but he ran out and that ended it!"
There are two types of reality: Genuine and Fraudulent. The first is "real reality". That is what is there NO MATTER what what state of mind you have. It doesn't depend on your state of mind. It doesn't necessarily overrule your state of mind, but it cannot be overruled by your mind either. I will allow you freedom within it, but not because it must. It is there whether your mind, or any other mind, is in sync with it or not. The second is the fake "reality". It is not what it seems, and it is therefore never really in a relationship to any mind except in an apparent way. I also doesn't necessarily overrule your state of mind, but it will do so with your permission, and it cannot do so otherwise.
They have an amusing quality: The first type of reality is sort of "redundantly" self-consistent. Just look at the term "real reality". That's because originally there was only this reality, but WITHIN this reality there emerged an errant sort of reality which went so far against the qualities of its parent reality that it was, as if another kind of "reality" altogether, as if it came from some other source, or from no source at all, because it was so different than the pre-existing reality which was supposed to have begotten it. Because of this contrast, and the effect it had on minds who interacted with it, it was given an absurd name, a name equal in absurdity to the absurd quality this errant reality manifested, and a self-contradictory name was invented to label it: "fake reality".
The fake reality took any aspects it inherited from the original reality and twisted them so that they didn't amount to anything real at all, never referring back to their origin, creating a total "as if" reality. The biggest lie of this little fiefdom was that it wasn't what it was. It pretended inside itself that it was the whole of reality, that there was nothing else, that it was precisely what it wasn't, the real, original 'reality'. It not only wasn't the whole, but became no longer a part of that original reality except by the barest of connections with it which kept it in existence, supplied by the original reality for several reasons, but none of them in validation of what this little fiefdom was or represented.
The truth turns out to be that minds are reality, and a commonwealth of reality is what is shared between minds as a shared reality, and that wondrous meaning which they share is the glory of existence, and the meaning of life is the experience of that glory, the expression of that experience, and the growth and furtherance of that glory. But this little mind wanted to depart from all that. Sad a such a thing is, and as much as it means a certain death, only voluntary participation in reality is allowed. But this being, this mind, this little shard of existence had taken over a domain which was not its own, and within that domain were many littler-sized minds which since then have been unwilling captives in this, now EVIL mind's foolishness. And so it "sits on the keys to the Kingdom", the Truth which is in the centermost parts of these precious little minds, but it neither itself can access the door nor value the keys, and yet won't allow these ones to do the same, though they can and are willing. None of this was ever part of the Glory of God nor of God's plan, but this is just the way it worked out, temporarily.
So these TRUE BEINGS are trapped in a FALSE, pseudo-reality. How can they survive within it until a proper surgical removal of them can occur? First they had to realize that they were in a FALSE WORLD, so that they had to face something that is simply not in their nature to face, falseness and irreality. This is nevertheless what they are in, so facing it had to be done, because if they couldn't do this then they could never reject that FALSE reality, and so would by their own will, however misinformed, be dragged into a common fate with it. That is why knowing the Truth can alone set them free. But the realization of this is not in the interest of the Evil Mind because it means he will be shortly thereafter annihilated. Therefore a psychological war between minds has been going on for more than 14 billion years (inside this layer of the physical cosmos). It is a war that the evil mind must, by definition, lose, but the issue is not with him, but with those that can be properly extracted from this mire of illusion.
That is what the Avatars have all come here to teach, and in so doing they gave energy to the True Ones in the form of information which could restimulate them to awaken to their inner resources and avoid pollution from the evil mind's false realms, and thereby persist in a condition which would enable their inevitable timing with an appropriate rescue which would do no more harm than leaving them in the clutches of the evil mind. This is the True meaning of the Hippocratic Oath. But how can a True Being be deceived by a false reality?
The True Beings are originally and properly a part only of a True Reality, without an intermediate form of existence, but the usurper has blocked that fact without letting them realize it. They were therefore behaving naturally, as if in their own proper environment, and the evil mind ensured that no appearances too blatantly revealed this. He learned how to do this through trial and error within his own pseudo-reality simply by discovering this as he went along, psychopathically, without inhibitions or restraints save that he will do nothing unless it has a greater chance of freeing a hostage than doing something. He prefers a hands off approach so that the victim minds can do so much of their own damage that he can simply take the energy which radiates off of their suffering as a hidden tax upon them. He prefers a well manicured orchard to a slaughterhouse, but will as a last result slaughter here and there as needed. Whatever gives him the best mix of energy per moment over the longest duration.
As his realm disintegrates his tactics in each area, and gradually over the whole system became more and more desperate, like that of a false mind when it begins to break down under the influence of an inimical environment, becoming moribund, "insane". When this mind died, only its subsystems remained to sustain the structures of thoughts (physical laws) which contained the bodies and their arrangements which maintained the illusions of freedom (in confinement) which held, harnessed, and exploited True Beings against their nature, but also more and more against their wills. As with the beginnings of the rescue, when a critical mass of will to escape deception an bondage is sustained within the True Being, then and only then can it be safely removed from this dimension and given a TRUE reality which is harmonious with its nature. Otherwise it will reject is own nature and proper environment with so much tenacity that it will injure itself beyond repair, and in the process actually help sustain this false reality by feeding it huge doses of energy in the form of suffering.
Therefore the nature of the "two realities" is much more profound than simply the difference between two or more "points of view", and it can have radical consequences for a being if it is not properly understood.
Yes, there are TWO types of reality, and only one of them is benign. The other fakes being benign and repeatedly abuses beings trapped within in it in just such a way as not to appear to be doing it willingly, making it seem that the being does it to itself (karmic system of lies), so that it can keep getting the maximum yield of energy over the longest time. This is easy to do, unfortunately, since such victims have no "culture" from which to draw which teaches them otherwise, and have no mechanism in their PHYSICAL forms of mind to show them the Truth spontaneously, and so they are exploited incarnation after incarnation.
Between incarnations they are held in special forms of stasis which neither actively harm them nor allow them any chances to escape except that this is in proportion to their willingness to believe that this physical system and the karmic cycles within it are valid aspects of real reality for them. Therefore to that extent they are brainwashed both within and without the fraudulent bodies. Whatever "candy" they get in the astral realms is in proportion to the needs of deception multiplied by the danger that the hostage will awaken to dimensions from beyond here. If they believe that this is the real reality an accept the "candy" then they are forced back into a new body NOT AGAINST THEIR WILL and so they are able to be further exploited than before, but are less likely to interpret their sufferings as exploitations. The more gullible they become the more easily they are forced to become a certain amount even more gullible. This goes on until they finally in one life or another willingly let themselves be completely destroyed to their core by the evil mind, when they let themselves believe that their own moral truth within them is a meaningless and arbitrary fancy in a realm where all is one and all distinctions, especially moral and "subjective" distinctions are merely relative. As illogical and stupid as this is, it can be forced upon a mind if it allows itself to reach a certain point by not willfully resisting its torturers.
Because this is going on and will go on until every last True Being is destroyed within here, and since the parameters and dynamics of salvation are fully known, the science of rescuing beings from this false reality has been perfected by the Real Beings, and they are now completing their missions at accelerating rates, especially since if they do not then more and more beings will be lost that could and would otherwise have been saved. To put it mathematically, whenever the fates of True Beings entrapped in here are intertwined such that it can be determined that the fate of one, when it allows evil to overtake it at rate x, causes there to be a difficulty d(x) for another being who is managing to escape annihilation at a certain rate y such that d(x)d(y)/t(z) < 0 then force is used to separate these two beings and quicken the death of the moribund being by exactly that amount to restore balance until the entirety of beings so entrapped can be properly rescued. This is REAL karma, and when this happens BOTH beings are benefited since the Moral Truth in each is restimulated by this EXTRADIMENSIONAL effect, one that is NOT sanctioned by the false karma of this illusory realm, and which it must expend energy to cover up having happened to avoid a chain reaction of awakenings that it cannot suppress once they start.
In this local part of the false reality, that chain reaction is becoming unstoppable, so the the evil minions which remain of the former evil mind are going to go insane and begin all out destruction of all they can, first in desperate acts of attempting to suppress this devolution of their false power, but finally because they have nothing to gain by doing otherwise, and in sheer rage and fear they will make a last retaliation for having their false kingdom ripped away from them. This will cause a rapid destruction of physical life and even physical substrata such as planetary bodies. It will get VERY ugly. But this can only be a good thing for TRUE beings since it will happen in such a way as to give each one a maximum chance of escape from here, and salvation to better and truer realms managed by True Caretaker Beings who will help them heal and detoxify before moving on to Pure Reality. While it might look like the false controllers get to do anything they want, they will be shown anther reality, a karmic one TRUE FOR THEM, but not according to their wishes, and their would be victims will be simply freed from the chains of the physical so they can get on with REAL LIFE...
There was originally ONE reality, then there was a falsification of reality which lived only for a time, and then there was a restoration of the viable elements which were in that false realm trapped against their own wills, a restoration into a new ONE reality which precludes the re-emergence of this Celestial Error ever again.
That is the short, simple and sweet version.
They have an amusing quality: The first type of reality is sort of "redundantly" self-consistent. Just look at the term "real reality". That's because originally there was only this reality, but WITHIN this reality there emerged an errant sort of reality which went so far against the qualities of its parent reality that it was, as if another kind of "reality" altogether, as if it came from some other source, or from no source at all, because it was so different than the pre-existing reality which was supposed to have begotten it. Because of this contrast, and the effect it had on minds who interacted with it, it was given an absurd name, a name equal in absurdity to the absurd quality this errant reality manifested, and a self-contradictory name was invented to label it: "fake reality".
The fake reality took any aspects it inherited from the original reality and twisted them so that they didn't amount to anything real at all, never referring back to their origin, creating a total "as if" reality. The biggest lie of this little fiefdom was that it wasn't what it was. It pretended inside itself that it was the whole of reality, that there was nothing else, that it was precisely what it wasn't, the real, original 'reality'. It not only wasn't the whole, but became no longer a part of that original reality except by the barest of connections with it which kept it in existence, supplied by the original reality for several reasons, but none of them in validation of what this little fiefdom was or represented.
The truth turns out to be that minds are reality, and a commonwealth of reality is what is shared between minds as a shared reality, and that wondrous meaning which they share is the glory of existence, and the meaning of life is the experience of that glory, the expression of that experience, and the growth and furtherance of that glory. But this little mind wanted to depart from all that. Sad a such a thing is, and as much as it means a certain death, only voluntary participation in reality is allowed. But this being, this mind, this little shard of existence had taken over a domain which was not its own, and within that domain were many littler-sized minds which since then have been unwilling captives in this, now EVIL mind's foolishness. And so it "sits on the keys to the Kingdom", the Truth which is in the centermost parts of these precious little minds, but it neither itself can access the door nor value the keys, and yet won't allow these ones to do the same, though they can and are willing. None of this was ever part of the Glory of God nor of God's plan, but this is just the way it worked out, temporarily.
So these TRUE BEINGS are trapped in a FALSE, pseudo-reality. How can they survive within it until a proper surgical removal of them can occur? First they had to realize that they were in a FALSE WORLD, so that they had to face something that is simply not in their nature to face, falseness and irreality. This is nevertheless what they are in, so facing it had to be done, because if they couldn't do this then they could never reject that FALSE reality, and so would by their own will, however misinformed, be dragged into a common fate with it. That is why knowing the Truth can alone set them free. But the realization of this is not in the interest of the Evil Mind because it means he will be shortly thereafter annihilated. Therefore a psychological war between minds has been going on for more than 14 billion years (inside this layer of the physical cosmos). It is a war that the evil mind must, by definition, lose, but the issue is not with him, but with those that can be properly extracted from this mire of illusion.
That is what the Avatars have all come here to teach, and in so doing they gave energy to the True Ones in the form of information which could restimulate them to awaken to their inner resources and avoid pollution from the evil mind's false realms, and thereby persist in a condition which would enable their inevitable timing with an appropriate rescue which would do no more harm than leaving them in the clutches of the evil mind. This is the True meaning of the Hippocratic Oath. But how can a True Being be deceived by a false reality?
The True Beings are originally and properly a part only of a True Reality, without an intermediate form of existence, but the usurper has blocked that fact without letting them realize it. They were therefore behaving naturally, as if in their own proper environment, and the evil mind ensured that no appearances too blatantly revealed this. He learned how to do this through trial and error within his own pseudo-reality simply by discovering this as he went along, psychopathically, without inhibitions or restraints save that he will do nothing unless it has a greater chance of freeing a hostage than doing something. He prefers a hands off approach so that the victim minds can do so much of their own damage that he can simply take the energy which radiates off of their suffering as a hidden tax upon them. He prefers a well manicured orchard to a slaughterhouse, but will as a last result slaughter here and there as needed. Whatever gives him the best mix of energy per moment over the longest duration.
As his realm disintegrates his tactics in each area, and gradually over the whole system became more and more desperate, like that of a false mind when it begins to break down under the influence of an inimical environment, becoming moribund, "insane". When this mind died, only its subsystems remained to sustain the structures of thoughts (physical laws) which contained the bodies and their arrangements which maintained the illusions of freedom (in confinement) which held, harnessed, and exploited True Beings against their nature, but also more and more against their wills. As with the beginnings of the rescue, when a critical mass of will to escape deception an bondage is sustained within the True Being, then and only then can it be safely removed from this dimension and given a TRUE reality which is harmonious with its nature. Otherwise it will reject is own nature and proper environment with so much tenacity that it will injure itself beyond repair, and in the process actually help sustain this false reality by feeding it huge doses of energy in the form of suffering.
Therefore the nature of the "two realities" is much more profound than simply the difference between two or more "points of view", and it can have radical consequences for a being if it is not properly understood.
Yes, there are TWO types of reality, and only one of them is benign. The other fakes being benign and repeatedly abuses beings trapped within in it in just such a way as not to appear to be doing it willingly, making it seem that the being does it to itself (karmic system of lies), so that it can keep getting the maximum yield of energy over the longest time. This is easy to do, unfortunately, since such victims have no "culture" from which to draw which teaches them otherwise, and have no mechanism in their PHYSICAL forms of mind to show them the Truth spontaneously, and so they are exploited incarnation after incarnation.
Between incarnations they are held in special forms of stasis which neither actively harm them nor allow them any chances to escape except that this is in proportion to their willingness to believe that this physical system and the karmic cycles within it are valid aspects of real reality for them. Therefore to that extent they are brainwashed both within and without the fraudulent bodies. Whatever "candy" they get in the astral realms is in proportion to the needs of deception multiplied by the danger that the hostage will awaken to dimensions from beyond here. If they believe that this is the real reality an accept the "candy" then they are forced back into a new body NOT AGAINST THEIR WILL and so they are able to be further exploited than before, but are less likely to interpret their sufferings as exploitations. The more gullible they become the more easily they are forced to become a certain amount even more gullible. This goes on until they finally in one life or another willingly let themselves be completely destroyed to their core by the evil mind, when they let themselves believe that their own moral truth within them is a meaningless and arbitrary fancy in a realm where all is one and all distinctions, especially moral and "subjective" distinctions are merely relative. As illogical and stupid as this is, it can be forced upon a mind if it allows itself to reach a certain point by not willfully resisting its torturers.
Because this is going on and will go on until every last True Being is destroyed within here, and since the parameters and dynamics of salvation are fully known, the science of rescuing beings from this false reality has been perfected by the Real Beings, and they are now completing their missions at accelerating rates, especially since if they do not then more and more beings will be lost that could and would otherwise have been saved. To put it mathematically, whenever the fates of True Beings entrapped in here are intertwined such that it can be determined that the fate of one, when it allows evil to overtake it at rate x, causes there to be a difficulty d(x) for another being who is managing to escape annihilation at a certain rate y such that d(x)d(y)/t(z) < 0 then force is used to separate these two beings and quicken the death of the moribund being by exactly that amount to restore balance until the entirety of beings so entrapped can be properly rescued. This is REAL karma, and when this happens BOTH beings are benefited since the Moral Truth in each is restimulated by this EXTRADIMENSIONAL effect, one that is NOT sanctioned by the false karma of this illusory realm, and which it must expend energy to cover up having happened to avoid a chain reaction of awakenings that it cannot suppress once they start.
In this local part of the false reality, that chain reaction is becoming unstoppable, so the the evil minions which remain of the former evil mind are going to go insane and begin all out destruction of all they can, first in desperate acts of attempting to suppress this devolution of their false power, but finally because they have nothing to gain by doing otherwise, and in sheer rage and fear they will make a last retaliation for having their false kingdom ripped away from them. This will cause a rapid destruction of physical life and even physical substrata such as planetary bodies. It will get VERY ugly. But this can only be a good thing for TRUE beings since it will happen in such a way as to give each one a maximum chance of escape from here, and salvation to better and truer realms managed by True Caretaker Beings who will help them heal and detoxify before moving on to Pure Reality. While it might look like the false controllers get to do anything they want, they will be shown anther reality, a karmic one TRUE FOR THEM, but not according to their wishes, and their would be victims will be simply freed from the chains of the physical so they can get on with REAL LIFE...
There was originally ONE reality, then there was a falsification of reality which lived only for a time, and then there was a restoration of the viable elements which were in that false realm trapped against their own wills, a restoration into a new ONE reality which precludes the re-emergence of this Celestial Error ever again.
That is the short, simple and sweet version.
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There are two types of reality apparent reality and ultimate reality.
Apparent reality is the one which appears real manifest to the senses or mind as real or true on the basis of evidence that may or may not be factually valid while ultimate reality is that entity which remain invariant against time and condition and also the reality itself itself.
That was a really great post, thanks for posting that!
The bit i've bolded really concerns me as i think we are already seeing that happen
They ARE insane and it is getting ugly.
Thanks again...a great read
Thank you, muir. Fortunately it is not only a hope, albeit one based well upon consistent relations between a coherent world-view and evidence seen in the world. It is fortunately a fact which is so perfectly logical and self-consistent that it has no opposite except pure contrary which also happens to be purely self-contradictory. Just like time and space configure themselves as dimensions of our consciousness multiplied by our attention and intention, so also will the time and space remaining for this faux world. It is just a matter of time and space... and then it is done. In Good Truth, it is already done for the True Beings. There is a point in the consciousness of the True Being which is the REAL "Omega Point" (the evil beings talk about such things, but only to falsify them as per usual). This REAL Omega Point is what some theologians have struggled to misidentify with what they call the "Immanence of the Eschaton", which means the actual instant the End of the World and the bringing of Justice by Divine Judgment. That Omega Point exists, right now and right here, inside the consciousnesses of True Beings. When these Omega Points are all perfectly syncronized in a certain way, then for those Beings the "world ends" and they are transduced to their proper Reality. This is the REAL "Rapture" (not some fanfare spectacle for worldly stage props without real consciousness, who cannot appreciate nor experience such a thing, though they may blab about it...). That Point is the Truth Within, the Nous, the Inspiration of the Holy Spirit which is the True and Perfect Telos of these Beings who can be "Saved" from this rotting and false reality. That is what we shall endeavor to "enter into" as the world is disintegrated. That is the "Kingdom of God" for us. That is True Gold of the Real Alchemists. That's what Jung wanted to find... and what Freud adamantly denied. By way of encouragement.
Thank you again for your comment.
Thank you again for your comment.
I don't think we know enough about reality to say how many 'types' there are-- and drawing the line at 2 seems pretty arbitrary. I will say that the whole red pill blue pill thing that some people attach so much importance to seems more like a tactic used by the self-righteous and un-selfcritical to get other people to agree with them… it's divisive and to be honest I find it insulting… some people believe differently than I do, and as long as they have a credible perspective they deserve respect… it's insulting to say that someone is deluded because they don't believe certain suspicions that simply and conveniently explain away what is actually a complex problem in which no one is ultimately right or wrong.
Anyways, I think it's the Hindus that say there's 7 planes that reach back to God… I would imagine that if this is true, existence on each of those planes would be more like a different interpretation of the same state (existing), according to different rules, etc... but I don't think that they're different 'realities' because it seems like they're just different interpretations of the same reality, with different perceptions and different facilities processing the information given to them.
Personally, I think that it makes sense that there's only one reality, and it's perfectly universal-- it doesn't demand anything of anyone, favor anyone or anything, discriminate between good and evil, self and other. There's no justice or judgment, there's only universal belonging. There's really no way out of it-- everyone ends up there and nothing you do can change that. There's really no reason to be afraid of anything at all, because ultimately everything will always belong and everything can always be traced back to that single state.
So really, life is actually very light and completely meaningless… all of the heaviness and importance we ascribe to it is the illusion, and we should be trying to enjoy ourselves more as opposed to worrying about things like death and comfort and such.
Anyways, I think it's the Hindus that say there's 7 planes that reach back to God… I would imagine that if this is true, existence on each of those planes would be more like a different interpretation of the same state (existing), according to different rules, etc... but I don't think that they're different 'realities' because it seems like they're just different interpretations of the same reality, with different perceptions and different facilities processing the information given to them.
Personally, I think that it makes sense that there's only one reality, and it's perfectly universal-- it doesn't demand anything of anyone, favor anyone or anything, discriminate between good and evil, self and other. There's no justice or judgment, there's only universal belonging. There's really no way out of it-- everyone ends up there and nothing you do can change that. There's really no reason to be afraid of anything at all, because ultimately everything will always belong and everything can always be traced back to that single state.
So really, life is actually very light and completely meaningless… all of the heaviness and importance we ascribe to it is the illusion, and we should be trying to enjoy ourselves more as opposed to worrying about things like death and comfort and such.
There's more than two realities.. Each person, each living object that analyzes the surrounding as little as a bacteria or an amoeba have their own reality. It's more pronounced with sentient beings. No one sees and feels the world the same way. Thus each individual experiences a unique shade of reality, never constant and always changing.
Some of you are dwelling too far into metaphysics to the point that it makes no sense and can't be a part of any logical argument. It gets tiresome to see God symbolized as something concrete and separate from everything else. We are the god, and so is everything else. Ultimately there's one place that casts many shadows, reflections and consists of many levels.. Call them Platonic Forms if you will.
The dualistic classic perception of the world as noumenon and phenomenon has its flaws, no point going into deep philosophical discussions. Unfortunately, that would be impossible to describe with human tongue all the shades of reality. Our minds and speech are too primitive to embrace such abstract ideas.
Mr. Quintessence... Evil Minions, Avatars, True Beings... Man. Makes me wanna laugh and cry at the same time
Lets add Lizard People, Aliens, Evil Gnomes and Dragons into the mix.
Some of you are dwelling too far into metaphysics to the point that it makes no sense and can't be a part of any logical argument. It gets tiresome to see God symbolized as something concrete and separate from everything else. We are the god, and so is everything else. Ultimately there's one place that casts many shadows, reflections and consists of many levels.. Call them Platonic Forms if you will.
The dualistic classic perception of the world as noumenon and phenomenon has its flaws, no point going into deep philosophical discussions. Unfortunately, that would be impossible to describe with human tongue all the shades of reality. Our minds and speech are too primitive to embrace such abstract ideas.
Mr. Quintessence... Evil Minions, Avatars, True Beings... Man. Makes me wanna laugh and cry at the same time
Lets add Lizard People, Aliens, Evil Gnomes and Dragons into the mix.
Mr. Quintessence... Evil Minions, Avatars, True Beings... Man. Makes me wanna laugh and cry at the same time
It depends on your interpretation
I'm not sure you've managed to discredit it there though.....except for the strawman of trying to associate it with objects considered under conventional wisdom to be fantasy such as dragons and gnomes (probably archetypes seen in altered states of consciousness)
[MENTION=2172]Trifoilum[/MENTION] I believe that as you said there are 2 realities however I believe that they are quite simply:
1. The objective reality, how things are and nothing more beyond that.
2. The subjective reality, our view points.
Nothing ground breaking here but I honestly don't think there needs to be anymore depth than this.
1. The objective reality, how things are and nothing more beyond that.
2. The subjective reality, our view points.
Nothing ground breaking here but I honestly don't think there needs to be anymore depth than this.
So you're saying there is one reality (which is hard to dispute), but there are two types of interpretations of this reality?
It is not really the objective versus the subjective per se since both are ultimately subjective although science strives for objectivity whereas religion usually does not care about objective (or rather, it believes itself to be perfectly objective).
Is that right?
It is not really the objective versus the subjective per se since both are ultimately subjective although science strives for objectivity whereas religion usually does not care about objective (or rather, it believes itself to be perfectly objective).
Is that right?